[A] Player Evaluation: Jamal Mayers

[Tater]

Mayers was brought in for his offensive threats



He threatened all the white women in Chicago.

LMAO

 

[PatrickShart]

You're not getting it. You're arguing about singular events. Of course it's better to win each "individual" FO, but no one actually does that. In the macro, FOs aren't very important because 85% of teams are within 2% of average.



You use special teams draws as your example, yet Mayers only won 4 - count 'em 4 - more FOs on special teams than he lost.



And here's where the argument comes back to bite ya. Since puck possession IS important, and in your opinion, having a guy who's good at FOs is important and = possession, then why did Mayers have the worst Corsi rating on the team - even though he faced by far the the easiest quality of competition on the team?



So in reality, the fact Mayers won so many FOs at EV implies that he's even worse than his stats showed. Because winning that many draws against shitty competition, there's no way he shouldn't have dominated. And instead, it was completely the opposite. Good character guy, drops the gloves, smart player, but an AHL level skater.



Also, he was the worst PK forward on the team, even though he was on the ice for the best FO% on the team. Something doesn't add up!



And "Which one of those teams plays a puck possession game like CHI?" Didn't you just state that FOs = puck possession?? Chicago wasn't even in the top 10 in FO%, yet they were one the best possession teams in the league. MIN, CBJ, and CAR were in the top 10, yet they were 3 of the 4 worst puck possession teams in the league. TOR was also a bottom 10 possession team. No correlation.

Then why not just put 5 defenceman on the ice the last minute of a game, if the FO isn't important, come the end of the year due to the "Money Ball" fanatics? I mean, just base an entire team on some Corsi ratings, and you should win the Cup based on some sort of computer geeks flow chart.



As someone that has played, and coached...I know the value of winning draws in either zone. Ask any player thats ever played the game that simple question. If some "Corsi" computer generated "facts" says differently, so be it. If "Corsi" ever laced the skates up and lost a draw, had to chase the puck to try to gain possession - I would listen to it.



And yes, if you win a faceoff - you get possession of the puck. Not sure sure what's hard to get there. The difference is, TOR, CAR, MIN and CLB do NOT play a puck possession game. If you watch the games, you can notice teams systems, tatics, strategies. Hawks tend to have more a more mobile defence who skate/pass/catch the plays well. You see, those other teams - don't. It's not their style of play or system. Did the Corsi ratings take in effect the skill or style of play the coaches want their teams to play? A dump and chase/north and south team isn't going to have the same time of possession - regardless of face off wins/losses.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

A team who wins a lot of draws in the offensive zone, has more opportunity to set up a scoring chance than a team who loses draws in their zone. A team who wins more draws in their own zone, has more opportunity to curtail the oppositions scoring chances. Its simple.



It's why Q kept Brouwer on the bench and used to line up Madden with Toews and Kane during games back in 09-10 when the Hawks had a lead and were in their own zone. If Toews was kicked out of the faceoff dot, Q sure as hell wasn't going to let Kane or Brouwer take a faceoff. He kept Madden on the wing so as if Toews did get kicked, he didn't have to worry about the opposition getting puck possession.

 

[PatrickShart]

Agree Trev



The only place faceoffs may have little significance would be the neutral zone

 

[ChiNativeSon]

Then why not just put 5 defenceman on the ice the last minute of a game, if the FO isn't important, come the end of the year due to the "Money Ball" fanatics? I mean, just base an entire team on some Corsi ratings, and you should win the Cup based on some sort of computer geeks flow chart.



As someone that has played, and coached...I know the value of winning draws in either zone. Ask any player thats ever played the game that simple question. If some "Corsi" computer generated "facts" says differently, so be it. If "Corsi" ever laced the skates up and lost a draw, had to chase the puck to try to gain possession - I would listen to it.



And yes, if you win a faceoff - you get possession of the puck. Not sure sure what's hard to get there. The difference is, TOR, CAR, MIN and CLB do NOT play a puck possession game. If you watch the games, you can notice teams systems, tatics, strategies. Hawks tend to have more a more mobile defence who skate/pass/catch the plays well. You see, those other teams - don't. It's not their style of play or system. Did the Corsi ratings take in effect the skill or style of play the coaches want their teams to play? A dump and chase/north and south team isn't going to have the same time of possession - regardless of face off wins/losses.

Oh my lord dude, you can't read. I'm pretty sure EVERYONE agrees FO wins are good. The simple fact is that no team "dominates" in Fo wins so their influence comes up close to ziltch.



Desperation is when you have to throw in "I've played and/or coached."

 

[PatrickShart]

It's not desperation. I've just never once in my life heard a coach, player, analyst...talk about Corsi ratings on the bench or at any point during a game or in the locker room. But I've heard 1000 times the importance of winning them



So I'm really not sure how they're over rated as you or Corsi are trying to point out

 

[Shantz My Pants]

Agree Trev



The only place faceoffs may have little significance would be the neutral zone

And even still, you want to win them to start your time of possession!

 

[Ton]

You guys are missing his point, he's saying the difference between 2-3% is minor compared to the impact the player has on the ice after that face-off win. Look at someone like Yanic Perreault, who cares if he wins 60% of his face-offs if he can't do anything afterwards. I'd rather have Bolland on the ice and his 48%. Obviously you want a guy who can win more than he loses, but I think there are more important areas of the game to worry about when the difference is only a couple percent. John Madden vs Jamal Mayers, yeah Mayers is better in the circle but I'd take Madden over him every time as a 4th line C.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

You guys are missing his point, he's saying the difference between 2-3% is minor compared to the impact the player has on the ice after that face-off win. Look at someone like Yanic Perreault, who cares if he wins 60% of his face-offs if he can't do anything afterwards. I'd rather have Bolland on the ice and his 48%. Obviously you want a guy who can win more than he loses, but I think there are more important areas of the game to worry about when the difference is only a couple percent. John Madden vs Jamal Mayers, yeah Mayers is better in the circle but I'd take Madden over him every time as a 4th line C.

Mayers isn't here to do anything afterwards besides be physical and play smart defensively. Same thing Perreault did when he was with the Hawks minus the physical part.



Neither player was hurting their team defensively, so what's the big deal? He's a 4th line players, getting 4th line minutes, getting 4th line pay. The fact that he wins faceoffs and is solid defensively is the only reason he's on the team.

 

[Ton]

Mayers isn't here to do anything afterwards besides be physical and play smart defensively. Same thing Perreault did when he was with the Hawks minus the physical part.



Neither player was hurting their team defensively, so what's the big deal? He's a 4th line players, getting 4th line minutes, getting 4th line pay. The fact that he wins faceoffs and is solid defensively is the only reason he's on the team.

No argument from me, I know why he's here. Is there better options out there? I don't know. I'm not in Bowman's office.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

gotta love all the black power on this team... now just go pick akim aliu back up on waivers... he has a career PPG average of 1.5.