A Political Debate to Stir the Pot

[howcho]

Supra take the gal in your sig over there; looks to me that her dairy could produce a fair amount of butter.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Thank God. Biscuit is the only mo-fo with priorities who ever puts shit into perspective up in this joint.

Thank you for getting that I was not talking about tits. Hmm come to think if it.

 

[BigPete]

To oblige Supra, and stir the pot

I like the liberal notion that a society should pay for certain things that benefit society. Like affordable education, affordable healthcare, good roads, good police and fire protection, a strong military, etc. I also believe that without strong regulation of commerce people will be taken advantage of ad nauseum.



I don't like anything about the republican party and I think they are mostly liars that would sell a gold plated anything to their mother as a solid chunk of gold and do so at a premium. Their politicians are full of shit when they say they are people of faith and they only care about their personal wealth. I think any civilian that believes the republican party is looking out for them is a fucking dumbass, especially people from the rural and senior communities that don't have any personal wealth or a real stake in a business.



Ultimately though, the more I see of our government, it doesn't fucking matter which party they are in. They are all in the business of getting money and favors from big business for personal use and the only time they do something for their constituents is when they are trying to win reelection.



Saw a nod for a new book: Larry Lessiger's 'Republic, Lost'. It provides many details and anecdotes about lobbying and campaign financing. Most if not all politicians in the House and Senate are blowhards and crooks that never work for the people and only work to pad their pockets. **** em all!

 

[howcho]

I agree Pete. I am so disillusioned with politicians that I just don't give a shit any more. Truly the only thing they care about is getting another term so that they can stay at the trough a little longer. Not a single one of them seems to really care about their country. I suppose that many do start out with altruistic intentions but those are soon quashed by the system and we are left with just another asshole.

 

[supraman]

To oblige Supra, and stir the pot

I like the liberal notion that a society should pay for certain things that benefit society. Like affordable education, affordable healthcare, good roads, good police and fire protection, a strong military, etc. I also believe that without strong regulation of commerce people will be taken advantage of ad nauseum.



I don't like anything about the republican party and I think they are mostly liars that would sell a gold plated anything to their mother as a solid chunk of gold and do so at a premium. Their politicians are full of shit when they say they are people of faith and they only care about their personal wealth. I think any civilian that believes the republican party is looking out for them is a fucking dumbass, especially people from the rural and senior communities that don't have any personal wealth or a real stake in a business.



Ultimately though, the more I see of our government, it doesn't fucking matter which party they are in. They are all in the business of getting money and favors from big business for personal use and the only time they do something for their constituents is when they are trying to win reelection.



Saw a nod for a new book: Larry Lessiger's 'Republic, Lost'. It provides many details and anecdotes about lobbying and campaign financing. Most if not all politicians in the House and Senate are blowhards and crooks that never work for the people and only work to pad their pockets. **** em all!

But the problem I have is funding the "entitlement" programs. The government is so fucking hard in debt it isn't funny, we all know this. We need to get out of debt. So I see cutting the programs that are wants until we can afford them. All the programs you mentioned are wants not needs and yeah I say slash the living shit out of the defense budget too there is no reason we need to spend that much to protect the USA. We don't need bases around the world to protect the United States.



Basically with our debt problem the government needs to go to the bare necessities of government until we are out of debt. I understand this is an unrealistic goal but at some point we just have to stop funding something before it all collapses.



Now for those entitlement programs if we have a surplus and can fund them, I have no issue with them whatsoever but at this point some people "expect" their "handout" and that's just wrong. The government being able to help some people in need is a luxury.



As for the republican party, I like what they are SUPPOSED to stand for, not what they do actually stand for but hell I'm a crazy ass Libertarian anyway.

 

[supraman]

Supra take the gal in your sig over there; looks to me that her dairy could produce a fair amount of butter.

Sadly, she cannot, silicone or saline (I aint that much of a nerd to find out which she has) kinda ruins that.

 

[Variable]

It's not possible to get out of debt. That's not a "defeatist" attitude, it's just literally not possible to do it with how money is created. There will always be more owed back than there is ever out in circulation. Even if they were to take every single dollar that everyone has, we'd still be in debt, by a lot.

 

[BigPete]

It's not possible to get out of debt. That's not a "defeatist" attitude, it's just literally not possible to do it with how money is created. There will always be more owed back than there is ever out in circulation. Even if they were to take every single dollar that everyone has, we'd still be in debt, by a lot.

Been talking to Alan Greenspan lately, have you? (for the record, I don't think you are wrong)

 

[BigPete]

But the problem I have is funding the "entitlement" programs. The government is so fucking hard in debt it isn't funny, we all know this. We need to get out of debt. So I see cutting the programs that are wants until we can afford them. All the programs you mentioned are wants not needs and yeah I say slash the living shit out of the defense budget too there is no reason we need to spend that much to protect the USA. We don't need bases around the world to protect the United States.



Basically with our debt problem the government needs to go to the bare necessities of government until we are out of debt. I understand this is an unrealistic goal but at some point we just have to stop funding something before it all collapses.



Now for those entitlement programs if we have a surplus and can fund them, I have no issue with them whatsoever but at this point some people "expect" their "handout" and that's just wrong. The government being able to help some people in need is a luxury.



As for the republican party, I like what they are SUPPOSED to stand for, not what they do actually stand for but hell I'm a crazy ass Libertarian anyway.

While that is certainly A solution, IMHO it is not THE solution. Here is what pisses me off about the notions that Bush 2 had for retirement savings: social security would be just fine if the account hadn't been borrowed from for so many years. Those were political decisions made by many congresses over the years to raid the funds. So saying that "entitlement" programs are the problem is very short sided, and self serving I might add...they are necessary to keep peace and order in a society and it is evidenced by places like India where there are millions of people living in poverty and hundreds of thousands of kids living on the street.

If you as a nation have the resources, then you damn well better take care of the members of society that can't seem to prosper or you shouldn't consider yourself a civilized country.

 

[supraman]

While that is certainly A solution, IMHO it is not THE solution. Here is what pisses me off about the notions that Bush 2 had for retirement savings: social security would be just fine if the account hadn't been borrowed from for so many years. Those were political decisions made by many congresses over the years to raid the funds. So saying that "entitlement" programs are the problem is very short sided, and self serving I might add...they are necessary to keep peace and order in a society and it is evidenced by places like India where there are millions of people living in poverty and hundreds of thousands of kids living on the street.

If you as a nation have the resources, then you damn well better take care of the members of society that can't seem to prosper or you shouldn't consider yourself a civilized country.

But on the other hand if the currency was worth more and went farther it is possible that the people would not be as dependent on government aid. As much as Keynes think inflation is good, it isn't. The rises in wages have not matched the rise in the cost of living which makes everyone that isn't rich, poorer and therefore more reliant on government assistance. For me that is the major problem in the country and that really should be our first priority, we fix that other things get a lot easier to fix.

 

[Variable]

Been talking to Alan Greenspan lately, have you? (for the record, I don't think you are wrong)

No, it's just the result of the fractional reserve banking system. Money is made from debt. There is no agenda, it's just how it works.

 

[BigPete]

No, it's just the result of the fractional reserve banking system. Money is made from debt. There is no agenda, it's just how it works.

I'm typically on your side, so don't lock down the castle gate just yet. Greenspan is notorious for saying that there is value in debt and telling congress not to worry about the deficit because it is just a number.



Debt should not be valued, that is how/why the housing/economic collapse started. Banks were trying to make money off of bad debt (over-simplified, I know).

 

[BigPete]

But on the other hand if the currency was worth more and went farther it is possible that the people would not be as dependent on government aid. As much as Keynes think inflation is good, it isn't. The rises in wages have not matched the rise in the cost of living which makes everyone that isn't rich, poorer and therefore more reliant on government assistance. For me that is the major problem in the country and that really should be our first priority, we fix that other things get a lot easier to fix.

That's a nice notion Ron Paul, Mr. Gold Standard. I don't think the value of the dollar really matters. I think it is all the gamesmanship, philandering, thievery, and corruption in general that have fucked this country up.

This is a fact: many many many people in this country are simple minded, have serious addictions, have serious physical and or mental disabilities, and therefore cannot find and hold down a steady paycheck to have a roof over their head, some food in the fridge, and health care. It is always going to happen in a society, especially one with over 300 million people. When you don't have enough work for those people they suffer even more. Regardless of how they got there, you simply can't leave them out in the cold...because again, it makes us a collection of uncivilized people. Charitable donations simply don't do enough for them. Government sponsored programs have to pick up the slack.

 

[supraman]

That's a nice notion Ron Paul, Mr. Gold Standard. I don't think the value of the dollar really matters. I think it is all the gamesmanship, philandering, thievery, and corruption in general that have fucked this country up.

This is a fact: many many many people in this country are simple minded, have serious addictions, have serious physical and or mental disabilities, and therefore cannot find and hold down a steady paycheck to have a roof over their head, some food in the fridge, and health care. It is always going to happen in a society, especially one with over 300 million people. When you don't have enough work for those people they suffer even more. Regardless of how they got there, you simply can't leave them out in the cold...because again, it makes us a collection of uncivilized people. Charitable donations simply don't do enough for them. Government sponsored programs have to pick up the slack.

Oh it matters. My dad paid 24k for the house in chicago when he bought it. It is 1 of 2 1.5 lot houses. It is now valued at 180k last he looked. When the market was at its peak it was worth I think 250k. He made 30k at the time and he bought it in the late 60s I believe. I make 25k a year and my car cost as much as what he paid for a house. The value of the dollar most certainly matters. Every time the Federal Reserve Bank pushes money into the system all of us get a little poorer. Inflation will bring us to our knees.



Also it is constitutionally not the government's responsibility to provide government aid, the federal government's constitutional responsibilities are to provide defense to a foreign threat, entact and enforce laws.

 

[mikita's helmet]

Calm. The. ****. Down. Mr. "Faux" Righteous Indignation.

Well hell, then you might as well make it a full-on discussion about "The Last Tango in Paris" dude.

 

[roshinaya]

Interesting article about the debt and how it could be fixed.



http://theamericanscholar.org/how-to-pay-for-what-we-need/