[A] Streaking: CHI 1, CAL 3

[R K]

My question is...if everything is either Q's or Kitchen's fault....what exactly is Haviland doing or have done on the bench for everyone to love him? He's coached Bickell...so he'd get more out of him? He didn't really tear up Rockford.



Unless Havi can make the goaltending consistant or add a solid Dman, it wouldn't change anything. He sits in the coaching meetings, and probably has much the same system philosophies, or he wouldn't have been an assistant here the entire time Q has.

Logic! And exactly where the probem is for the most part, goal tending and 6 solid D men, where the #1 and #2 aren't playing half the game.

 

[PatrickShart]

And if it's Q's sole fault when they lose, then it's his reason they've been to the Conf Finals, Won the Cup, made it to game 7 vs the Conf Champs last year....and this year's ending to be determined.



If he gets the blame for the losses...then he should get all the credit for their success.

 

[PuckPowWow]

In all fairness R K, the Hawks have been blown out of about 15 or so games this year, and that is a lot. Blow out defined as losing by at least 2 goals where they showed little chance of fighting back.



I want the Hawks to play better hockey, but the fact is (if you have been watching every game of the season closely) they are performing like a team who should be just above .500 or so. They lost to Vancouver when they should have won, but they have won far more games that they had no right winning.



Again, with that said, I have hope for the team. I haven't liked anything Q has done since coming aboard and that includes the year the Hawks won the Cup. But, you can't argue in the face of results, because no one wants to listen. He treats some players too well, and craps on others. The Cup team had good chemistry because of the players, and not Q. Don't even get me started on the lack of decent system play.



And I have to ask, why so quick to throw Frolik under the bus when he has (besides not producing points) played hard, and looks decent enough on the ice. IMO, he is just another casualty of Q (could we not throw Kane under that same bus for similar reasons?). I truly believe the talent is here to win with, but not unless their philosophies and system are shook up.



I would like to see one more trade that brings a legit player. Maybe on D, or a 3rd line winger. Move Bolland to 2nd line, and build your 3rd line in IMO.



The heart rests with the coaching, and I agree that Q has to be the one to go. He does have the most responsibility for the way the Hawks have inconsistently performed. But, I also think it will take a further drop in the standings for it to happen. Toews and company might just kick it into gear on their own and make sure it doesn't happen, saving Q's job, but at the result of future growth.

 

[the canadian dream]

Rk hit the nail on the head. Dead weight. That's the difference btw this team and 2 years ago...even last year.





Bowman will correct it when the chance comes. I believe the rumors that he is very very busy making the phones. Trades take time esp with so much parody in the league now. There aren't many moves out there. Hell even all the duck rumors have died now that they are winning.

 

[Pez68]

Rk hit the nail on the head. Dead weight. That's the difference btw this team and 2 years ago...even last year.





Bowman will correct it when the chance comes. I believe the rumors that he is very very busy making the phones. Trades take time esp with so much parody in the league now. There aren't many moves out there. Hell even all the duck rumors have died now that they are winning.

We've been truly spoiled and ruined by the cup winning team. This Hawks team will NEVER have the talent that team had. Period. It is absolutely 100% impossible under the cap system to get even close to that team's talent and leadership. People need to get over that and start thinking realistically. EVERY team in the NHL has dead weight in the bottom of their roster. Look at the teams around the league, namely the ones at or near the Hawks' point totals. Tell me how many of those teams have these AMAZING bottom six forwards, and AMAZING third pairings that are SO much better than the Hawks' are. I would love to see it. The Hawks' bottom six and third pair is NO WORSE than any other in the NHL. Pointing at that as a reason for the struggles is a massive cop out. This team has arguably one of the strongest top 10s in the NHL.

 

[the canadian dream]

Im not getting in to it anymore. I dont expect or never did for this team to ever match the roster in the cup run..ever. But what has been placed on the ice as far as depth goes isn't pretty with what Bowman had to work with esp after dealing Campbell.



Bowan has made mistakes as has Q. There is probably a communication issue with those two baffoons. And both are baffoons and ego ridden jack asses. I don't think they work well together and that is probably the real issues of this team. Throw in the monkey McDonut , scotty bowman and Rocky who is probably trying to be a bit more fiscal wile rising ticket prices and theres a nice messy head office with far too many egos.



Q will get fired before Bowman does so you will get your future wish (thats just a given as GMs dont get axed anymore). Its just not happening this season so the parade to fire Q isn't realistic. What is realistic is waiting to see what moves Bowman makes to help the current holes. and he will make a move I can feel it in my gutt. And this time a proper move. The Morrison, Kruger, Brunnette, O Donell quick cheap fixes are done. One of these days we will have a GM again that actually played the game at some point not one who got the job because of his last name. Kruger, Frolik, Brunette, Morrison, O' Donell. You gotta be kidding me. Those are a perfect blend of guys who aren't as skilled as we think they are and guys who are way past their expiration dates. Never a good combo. What was Bowman thinking?

 

[PatrickShart]

How the **** are they "performing like a team that should be .500 or so" when in the real world - they're 29-17-7?



Blown out 15 games or so? Losing by 2 goals is a blowout with no chance of coming back? There's only been 9 games all year where they lost by 3 or more? There's been 11 games they've outscored teams by 3 or more.



How about the fact they've only been outscored 17 times in the 3rd period all year?



Or the PP that supposedly sucks is 10th?



Or tops in scoring in the NHL?



Frolik has been given all kinds of chances. Including last year, if you've been watching games closely as you claim. What player has ever come out to say they're crapped on? Stop "assuming" players are unhappy or don't like Q. Sharp last night said - in between periods - Q is one of the best in the game in getting the best matchups. Again....let me repeat that. Sharp....an actual player on the team....says Q is one of the best in the game. Scotty Bowman...kind of a good coach in his day, if you ever heard of him....endorsed Q to come in and coach.



They are 0-4-1 in the last 5. Re fucking lax.



1st 10gms this year - 6-2-2

then...6-3-1...13pts

then...6-3-1...13pts

then...6-4-0...12pts

then...5-3-2...12pts

then...5-4-1...11pts

so far 0-2-1.....1pt



Seems kind of consistant. EVERY TEAM SLUMPS.



Det went winless in 6 ...0-5-1

Nash had a winless in 4 - 0-3-1...that included a 2-6-1



Suter - 26:29gm...Keith - 26:39

Weber - 26:18gm...Seabrook - 23:42



I don't hear NASH crying about those 2 playing that much or being worn down. Fact is...they're not. Where the Hawks are lacking...is a 4-5 guy. NOT to take minutes from poor Duncan or Brent...but to improve the bottom half. Funny thing they both played the SAME amount of minutes this year as the Cup year...difference? Depth and talent in the bottom pairings. Need to add a guy - which, when the right trade comes, they will.



When leading after 2 periods? 21-0-2...thats top 5 in the NHL

Leading after 1...11th

Trailing after 1...10th

Trailing after 2...9th

When scoring first....8th in the league

When other team scores first..8th in the league



Top scoring team in the second period...6th best in the 3rd



Overall as a team...they are +13....8th best in the league



Again. They have holes. Need to add a dman. Need consistent goaltending. Need to improve the PK. But they're not some inconsistent or underachieving team some make them out to be.

 

[the canadian dream]

PS the bottom six on this club is not good Pez. Leddy isn't ready yet even though we put our blinders on thinking he is, Hammer is a one trick poney, Montadore is also starting to show his age, O Donell is useless, Scott is..well hes a lot of things but hes not someone you are going to depend on. Throw in Keith who is still over-rated (good but highly over-rated) and Seabs who is probably our most dependable guy and we really don't have a defensive blueline that throws fear into the opponent. It has offensive punch when used properly but defensive hockey? meh there are far better bluelines out there right now.



Brain Campbell will always be missed (nothing we can do about that one and its the biggest impact loss). Campolli was better than any of you gave him credit for (him being a prick aside for a second) so was Sopel to be honest. Buff is another guy that has never been properly replaced. Who else am I missing from the past 3 years besides Walker who we dont even need to get into (who by the way is better than O'Donell).

 

[R K]

How the **** are they "performing like a team that should be .500 or so" when in the real world - they're 29-17-7?



Blown out 15 games or so? Losing by 2 goals is a blowout with no chance of coming back? There's only been 9 games all year where they lost by 3 or more? There's been 11 games they've outscored teams by 3 or more.



How about the fact they've only been outscored 17 times in the 3rd period all year?



Or the PP that supposedly sucks is 10th?



Or tops in scoring in the NHL?



Frolik has been given all kinds of chances. Including last year, if you've been watching games closely as you claim. What player has ever come out to say they're crapped on? Stop "assuming" players are unhappy or don't like Q. Sharp last night said - in between periods - Q is one of the best in the game in getting the best matchups. Again....let me repeat that. Sharp....an actual player on the team....says Q is one of the best in the game. Scotty Bowman...kind of a good coach in his day, if you ever heard of him....endorsed Q to come in and coach.



They are 0-4-1 in the last 5. Re fucking lax.



1st 10gms this year - 6-2-2

then...6-3-1...13pts

then...6-3-1...13pts

then...6-4-0...12pts

then...5-3-2...12pts

then...5-4-1...11pts

so far 0-2-1.....1pt



Seems kind of consistant. EVERY TEAM SLUMPS.



Det went winless in 6 ...0-5-1

Nash had a winless in 4 - 0-3-1...that included a 2-6-1



Suter - 26:29gm...Keith - 26:39

Weber - 26:18gm...Seabrook - 23:42



I don't hear NASH crying about those 2 playing that much or being worn down. Fact is...they're not. Where the Hawks are lacking...is a 4-5 guy. NOT to take minutes from poor Duncan or Brent...but to improve the bottom half. Funny thing they both played the SAME amount of minutes this year as the Cup year...difference? Depth and talent in the bottom pairings. Need to add a guy - which, when the right trade comes, they will.



When leading after 2 periods? 21-0-2...thats top 5 in the NHL

Leading after 1...11th

Trailing after 1...10th

Trailing after 2...9th

When scoring first....8th in the league

When other team scores first..8th in the league



Top scoring team in the second period...6th best in the 3rd



Overall as a team...they are +13....8th best in the league



Again. They have holes. Need to add a dman. Need consistent goaltending. Need to improve the PK. But they're not some inconsistent or underachieving team some make them out to be.

Thank you. I didn't know where to start with Pow wow on that one. Blown out 15 times... ROTFL! They've been "blown out" four times that I can think of. And of those four only 3 were the entire game. They were with Edmonton the other night until the 3rd period.



Were NOT blown out in Calgary by any means.



I suppose they should in all fairness go 82-0.



If they are soooo bad now I really wonder what these people were watching 4-5 years ago. I don't remember any of these "thesis" type posts back then. Infact I don't remember many of these people back then either.



So close to the ledge it's fucking comical. Just jump already.

 

[Rex]

Not so optimistic anymore?



By the way Rex, I completely agree with your line suggestions. Was thinking the exact same thing myself since getting Morrison. My only lingering thought is to give Frolik another go on the 3rd line for a while, but Bickell is done. Was done a year ago, but we still have to watch him play.



I also agree with the D-pairings whole heartedly.



Emery should have been the starter for a while now.



Yes, Kitchen seems to be a real problem, and Q has no control over his team, and lacks any idea of how to use his players, or which players for that matter. Total lack of a system, and no consistency.



Many players are now underperforming under his watch. Could just be a bad spell, but we all saw it coming, and it just serves to expose holes that have been around for 2 seasons, and even more in some cases.

I would actually be all for giving Frolik another chance, I like him. He doesn't put the puck in the net anymore, but creates chances and he plays hard in the corners, which is very vaulable

 

[R K]

Rather have hayes than either Frolik or Bickell. Bickell should be the first out the door though. Froliks contract probably keeps him here.

 

[Ton]

Technically this team has 29 wins and 24 losses... that's pretty close to .500

 

[PatrickShart]

ties are losses now?

 

[PatrickShart]

Fact is...their 65pts is 8th best in the entire NHL





8th best



Entire NHL



I don't give a **** if you consider their "ties" as losses. Factual. Out of 30 teams - only 7 have more points than they do.

 

[Ton]

Ties haven't been in the NHL for a while now PMXC... losses are losses.



Don't get your panties in a bunch, I was stating a fact, not you and your imaginary "ties"

 

[Pez68]

PS the bottom six on this club is not good Pez. Leddy isn't ready yet even though we put our blinders on thinking he is, Hammer is a one trick poney, Montadore is also starting to show his age, O Donell is useless, Scott is..well hes a lot of things but hes not someone you are going to depend on. Throw in Keith who is still over-rated (good but highly over-rated) and Seabs who is probably our most dependable guy and we really don't have a defensive blueline that throws fear into the opponent. It has offensive punch when used properly but defensive hockey? meh there are far better bluelines out there right now.



Brain Campbell will always be missed (nothing we can do about that one and its the biggest impact loss). Campolli was better than any of you gave him credit for (him being a prick aside for a second) so was Sopel to be honest. Buff is another guy that has never been properly replaced. Who else am I missing from the past 3 years besides Walker who we dont even need to get into (who by the way is better than O'Donell).

Why are you talking about the defense when I'm talking about the bottom six? Bottom six refers to the 3rd and 4th lines. Look around the NHL at other teams and tell me the 3rd and 4th lines they have are SO MUCH BETTER than what the Hawks have. No, they all have dead weight and none are world beaters. It's how Q insists on using his third line that is killing this team. He is absolutely obsessed with recreating that Ladd/Bolland/Havlat or Ladd/Bolland/Versteeg line to play in a shutdown role. It isn't happening, so just put Sharp/Bolland/Hossa together and out against the other team's top lines, and be fucking done with it already. Or, Q, go watch a Redwing game and see how Babcock uses his lines and take some fucking lessons on how to get the best out of the players you are given.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

Is it time to panic quite yet?



No.



But the second half hasn't looked great so far and with each loss teams are catching us in points totals. The West is a very tight conference and the Hawks are not doing anything to help their cause the last 10 games.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

There are a ton of reasons why this team is having issues, fact of the matter is after 53 games, other teams have been able to figure out that the Hawks don't play good defense. Take the puck to the net and grind it out because the Hawks will give up about 10-15 quality scoring opportunities...

 

[R K]

Technically this team has 29 wins and 24 losses... that's pretty close to .500

If thats the case The blues are 30-20 soon to be 30-21



Preds are 31-21



Sharks are 29-22



So the Hawks are right there.



All within a couple of game of each other. Yea. And that gives the horrible last 6 games from the hawks. Where the other three teams had horrible stretches earlier in the year. It comes and goes.

 

[Ton]

Those records are still better though... The Hawks are within 5 games, those teams are 7-10 games away from being .500



That could make a big difference prorated to the end of the season. Then again, they just went on a 5-game losing streak so without that they are right there with them. But, the fact is they did lose 5 in a row, so they have to do something about it to get back on that track otherwise very soon they could be a .500 team. If they go on a 5-game win streak that will change everything, obviously... but they need to do it otherwise it's just talk.



I doubt the Hawks will be a losing team for the rest of the season, but they definitely need some soul searching because their identity is starting to get foggy.