All Purpose AL Central Thread: News, Rumors, Free Agents ETC

[DewsSox79]

discuss

 

[DewsSox79]

miggy wins MVP. back to back MVPs for detroit

 

[Gunzaan]

I'm so glad that Miggy won it... And I hate Detroit. But its a huge F-you to all the sabremetric fools and their precious stats like WAR. Instead, the triple crown winner, the guy who lead his team to the playoffs & WS, and the guy who finished strong in September won it. It's a victory for anyone that actually enjoys the game of baseball and sees it for more then ridiculous made up stats!

 

[Gunzaan]

And, it wasn't even that close... Cabrera got 22 of 26 first place votes!

 

[DewsSox79]

Some of the members here and on twitter have this idea that WAR and UZR are actual stats when they are not. Statistics 101 for those who don't understand...a statistic is known to be true. estimations of numbers etc are NOT stats.

WAR the 2nd worst metric. Stating "wins" and trying to value a player using that is 100% fictional. Replacement is another median that is 100% fictional and can fluctuate from game to game, day to day etc.

Its ok to use as a tool along with other stats, thats fine, but to be 100% metrics is flat out wrong.

As there are countless articles that you can research...many of the well known GMs that are considered highly regarded from teams like the A's,Rays,Cards etc are all using much more accurate metrics that are proprietary to their respective team. If you actually believe GMs are using UZR and WAR to make choice on players than you are 100% delusional.

As far as miggy is concerned...cmon...lets stop the non sense that trout should have won it because of metrics.

MVP means most valuable to their team for that specific season and a lot of fans get that confused with who would you rather have on your team which easily would be trout due to salary and age....fans get the 2 confused. For the specific season miggy is the MVP....I know I know trout robbedzzz teh homerunzz and stuffzz....great story, great rookie....but not MVP.

take miggy and his assine numbers and they do not win the division.

 

[DewsSox79]

some small things in summary:

delmon young gone from DET, replaced with Hunter
Anibal Sanchez still a FA and not on DET
Royals obtained Ervin Santana
Cleveland looks like they are backing up the truck

 

[Capt. Serious]

That might be the one deal the Marlins won.

Jacob Turner pitched pretty well after getting traded.

 

[Gunzaan]

Some of the members here and on twitter have this idea that WAR and UZR are actual stats when they are not. Statistics 101 for those who don't understand...a statistic is known to be true. estimations of numbers etc are NOT stats.

WAR the 2nd worst metric. Stating "wins" and trying to value a player using that is 100% fictional. Replacement is another median that is 100% fictional and can fluctuate from game to game, day to day etc.

Its ok to use as a tool along with other stats, thats fine, but to be 100% metrics is flat out wrong.

As there are countless articles that you can research...many of the well known GMs that are considered highly regarded from teams like the A's,Rays,Cards etc are all using much more accurate metrics that are proprietary to their respective team. If you actually believe GMs are using UZR and WAR to make choice on players than you are 100% delusional.

As far as miggy is concerned...cmon...lets stop the non sense that trout should have won it because of metrics.

MVP means most valuable to their team for that specific season and a lot of fans get that confused with who would you rather have on your team which easily would be trout due to salary and age....fans get the 2 confused. For the specific season miggy is the MVP....I know I know trout robbedzzz teh homerunzz and stuffzz....great story, great rookie....but not MVP.

take miggy and his assine numbers and they do not win the division.

Amen!!

I'm starting to get a little worried, Dews... I keep agreeing with you lately.. a lot! We haven't had a good argument in awhile and its left a void.. maybe thats where my motivation is coming when I ***** about the MLB forum

 

[DewsSox79]

so true!

 

[Jntg4]

I don't agree with the whole "wouldn't have made the playoffs without player x" thing. Don't care much if you want to use it, but the same can be said for a lot of people.

They wouldn't have made it without Fielder, or without Verlander, or without Scherzer, or without Jackson, etc. The same can be said for a lot of people and it is nothing the player actually controls.

For example, if the Sox and Tigers went to Game 163 in a hypothetical season, any player of any positive value could have had that said, at least on the winning side. I just don't think it is a valid argument, but I understand why you do since you have a different perception of why Player X should get the MVP than I do, and I have no problem with that.

And does it matter if they aren't material wins or if the replacement level is randomly chosen if it is measured the same way for every player in the league? If you say the win ratio is fictional, that doesn't discount the rest of the formula as a mean of calculating how good a player is when he can be compared to another player. Not saying it should be used alone all the time, but I think you are simply missing the point or misinterpreting the meaning of it when you talk about how bad of a stat (or "non-stat" according to you) it is because of "fictional" aspects.

 

[DewsSox79]

I don't agree with the whole "wouldn't have made the playoffs without player x" thing. Don't care much if you want to use it, but the same can be said for a lot of people.

They wouldn't have made it without Fielder, or without Verlander, or without Scherzer, or without Jackson, etc. The same can be said for a lot of people and it is nothing the player actually controls.

For example, if the Sox and Tigers went to Game 163 in a hypothetical season, any player of any positive value could have had that said, at least on the winning side. I just don't think it is a valid argument, but I understand why you do since you have a different perception of why Player X should get the MVP than I do, and I have no problem with that.

And does it matter if they aren't material wins or if the replacement level is randomly chosen if it is measured the same way for every player in the league? If you say the win ratio is fictional, that doesn't discount the rest of the formula as a mean of calculating how good a player is when he can be compared to another player. Not saying it should be used alone all the time, but I think you are simply missing the point or misinterpreting the meaning of it when you talk about how bad of a stat (or "non-stat" according to you) it is because of "fictional" aspects.

I understand WAR and metrics very well.

Just because it is used across the board DOES NOT mean that the numbers are fictional. Especially when one version (note different versions, just another flaw in the whole system) weighs more on defense. There is zero balance to WAR and to base the MVP off of WAR is just fucking stupid. If you put in your "fictional replacement player" for a full season for trout as you do the same for miggy, one team (the angels) are still a descent team, take miggy off and they are very very bad. this is fact. If you want to try to sit here and justify WAR than go right ahead.....but remember one thing when you do....it isnt a stat, it is not known to be true....that is the one thing that is 100% accurate in this debate....so with that said...you pretty much have to throw WAR out the window.

next topic....UZR....need I say more.

All the metrics that are mainstream are not being used by scouts and teams, these are flawed metrics and have become the "trend" if you will for the fans that want to try to sound more intelligent and sophisticated. its like the government, we the citizens have and know of the current technology but what is being used and what is known within the government are far more advanced and are things we just do not know about....for both, once those become mainstream the government, baseball teams will be on the next best thing.

 

[Jntg4]

I understand WAR and metrics very well.

Just because it is used across the board DOES NOT mean that the numbers are fictional. Especially when one version (note different versions, just another flaw in the whole system) weighs more on defense. There is zero balance to WAR and to base the MVP off of WAR is just fucking stupid. If you put in your "fictional replacement player" for a full season for trout as you do the same for miggy, one team (the angels) are still a descent team, take miggy off and they are very very bad. this is fact. If you want to try to sit here and justify WAR than go right ahead.....but remember one thing when you do....it isnt a stat, it is not known to be true....that is the one thing that is 100% accurate in this debate....so with that said...you pretty much have to throw WAR out the window.

next topic....UZR....need I say more.

All the metrics that are mainstream are not being used by scouts and teams, these are flawed metrics and have become the "trend" if you will for the fans that want to try to sound more intelligent and sophisticated. its like the government, we the citizens have and know of the current technology but what is being used and what is known within the government are far more advanced and are things we just do not know about....for both, once those become mainstream the government, baseball teams will be on the next best thing.

Oh, and you agree it is real then, interesting considering how adamant you were about it being fake before. I take it that it is a type-o.

And it is a real number, there is a formula that outputs a number, therefore a stat even if you don't like it's name or find it misleading.

Even most SABER people say it doesn't perfectly correlate to wins, but it is generally very close when you add up the numbers for the whole team plus the designated replacement value. All I'm saying is that it usually comes close to equalling the teams wins, not that that would mean anything or change your mind or that it means it is perfect, but I'm just throwing that out there.

 

[DewsSox79]

TYPO-O

 

[DewsSox79]

the royals bring back guthrie. they need a number 1 and not trade away players and they will be competitive


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[dabynsky]

the royals bring back guthrie. they need a number 1 and not trade away players and they will be competitive


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How can they get a number 1? Either period and or without trading away players like Mous or Hosmer?

 

[brett05]

KC can give Sea a call and inquire about The King.

 

[dabynsky]

KC can give Sea a call and inquire about The King.

Seattle is going to hold onto King Felix while the team is terrible and then get a draft pick for him in a couple of years. But that would definitely cost a ton of talent for the Royals or any team to get them if they even convince Seattle to deal him.

 

[brett05]

Seattle is going to hold onto King Felix while the team is terrible and then get a draft pick for him in a couple of years. But that would definitely cost a ton of talent for the Royals or any team to get them if they even convince Seattle to deal him.

Which given the talent in the Royals organization two top five prospects from the Royals will be worth more than any draft pick down the road. Plus Sea would probably get two more in the top 15.

 

[DewsSox79]

How can they get a number 1? Either period and or without trading away players like Mous or Hosmer?

greinke. also they are loaded with specs. im sure they can get a pitcher in a package of top specs


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[dabynsky]

Which given the talent in the Royals organization two top five prospects from the Royals will be worth more than any draft pick down the road. Plus Sea would probably get two more in the top 15.

I agree Seattle is being dumb in not considering it, but that is by all reports what they are doing.