AMD Bristol Ridge, ZEN?

[xer0h0ur]

I own a W10 Pro key for whenever I finally decide to make the switch. I choose to do so at my own discretion not at Microsoft's behest.

 

[AussieBear]

I own a W10 Pro key for whenever I finally decide to make the switch. I choose to do so at my own discretion not at Microsoft's behest.

how is it? i never upgraded from win 7.. theres still a go around for it though, but i just dont want to **** up anything on my win7 pcs.. but ill get a copy for the new rig from kinguin that i think you or botfly posted...

 

[xer0h0ur]

Choose, not chose. Meaning I have not gone to W10 yet. My only use of W10 was briefly while my personal rig was out of commission and I had to use the Asus ROG laptop I bought for my little sister.

 

[AussieBear]

Choose, not chose. Meaning I have not gone to W10 yet. My only use of W10 was briefly while my personal rig was out of commission and I had to use the Asus ROG laptop I bought for my little sister.

eh my bad.. i tend to skim words too quick and misunderstand things a lot.. i guess ill find out about the win 10 soon enough...

 

[AussieBear]

any thoughts on dx12 and vulcan performce jumps with amd gear?? are a lot of aged intel/nvidia products going to suffer, while a lot of the older amd stuff gets new life? 8350/9590 here i come??

i noticed nvidia was acting like a ***** when it came to ashes of a singularity tests... i wonder if nvidia is going to pay of peeps in the industry to throttle amd...

im getting closer to buying a rig... still debating a couple of things... 6600k and non k i7 6700. non k 6700 is in the loop now because theres a aus builder who put out i7 rigs for a fair price...

2 yr warranty.. 6700, h110 mobo, 16 gb ddr4, 120gb ssd, 1tb hhd, unknown 600 watt ps for 899 and no os.. 999 w/win 10.. i can customize it with anything i want and it will cost about 300 more to get what i want minus the true k OC ability...those changes would be a different chip-set mobo, different case, blu ray drive, higher speed ram, specific ps..... so around 1600-1700 for an non k i7 and rx 480

im sold on the 8gb rx 480 gtr ..

or i can buy and build an OC i5 6600k for roughly the same price...

either build leaves enough in the budget for 2 extra monitors

thoughts on going non k i7 6700 over 6600k? i could still get an z170 and old bios and oc it if its all that...

 

[Crystallas]

If the application(game) you want to use the most takes advantage of DX12 or Vulkan, or if you want to be a linux gamer, then it should be a factor in your system build. Otherwise, it's simply not a big enough factor in 2016 to plan a system build.

As far as assuming you can run an older bios, you might be out of luck. Manufacturers do revise the boards over time with newer components. These look like identical parts on paper, but are different enough to merit a change to the bios firmware. If I am on contract to provide the network controller for asus, and asus sells millions of these controllers on many variation of boards, then I figure out how to make that part more efficient and with better production yields. Now I need Asus to update the firmware to reflect the changes within the boards that use that chip. Or MSI, or Gigabyte, or whoever makes that board and sources the parts. Same goes with the bridge chips themselves from intel, they also make tiny tweaks that require bios changes.

Whether you luck out and get a motherboard that works properly with an older bios or not becomes a roll of the dice.

If you want to overclock, then plan your build accordingly. I think it's silly to take a proof-of-concept group of system building, then apply it to your daily driver. Especially when cost is important to you.

 

[AussieBear]

If the application(game) you want to use the most takes advantage of DX12 or Vulkan, or if you want to be a linux gamer, then it should be a factor in your system build. Otherwise, it's simply not a big enough factor in 2016 to plan a system build.

As far as assuming you can run an older bios, you might be out of luck. Manufacturers do revise the boards over time with newer components. These look like identical parts on paper, but are different enough to merit a change to the bios firmware. If I am on contract to provide the network controller for asus, and asus sells millions of these controllers on many variation of boards, then I figure out how to make that part more efficient and with better production yields. Now I need Asus to update the firmware to reflect the changes within the boards that use that chip. Or MSI, or Gigabyte, or whoever makes that board and sources the parts. Same goes with the bridge chips themselves from intel, they also make tiny tweaks that require bios changes.

Whether you luck out and get a motherboard that works properly with an older bios or not becomes a roll of the dice.

If you want to overclock, then plan your build accordingly. I think it's silly to take a proof-of-concept group of system building, then apply it to your daily driver. Especially when cost is important to you.

i hear you on the non k oc.. i would be wary of a stealth microcode update effecting the old bios anyway.. cost matters in a sense, but not in dollar terms.. ive priced some i7 6700k builds and i could do it technically.. i just cant get past aus sticker shock and never will.. im cheap when i comes to my personal wants.. and paying 2k brings in a guilt factor some ppl might not understand... growing up without much and learning the value of a dollar early, really shaped/scarred me in ways.. but my guessing logic may win out.. im guesstimating the i7 will benefit more from dx12 than say an i5?? but like i said, im just guessing... but for future proofing purposes it seems better in a sense..

whats up with linux gaming?? i read something about wine years ago... does that let you play most current windows games? or do you still boot in win for certain games... how does steam run and what games can it run? is it just limited to big AAA titles

how does linux factor into dx12/vulkan...

 

[Crystallas]

One benefit of the new APIs(and also remember, they aren't rolled out in most games yet anyways) is that the games are less CPU reliant. So yes, a faster CPU is... faster, but the gap between an i7 and i5 of current generation shrinks quite a bit. Although threads will be a premium. So basically it's going to be a shift in how Intel numbers their future CPUs. So yes, I'd rather go 6600k than a 6700k or non-k. If that is what you're asking. On air, you're getting the same OCs.


DirectX 12 is a windows feature. Vulkan is a cross platform API. Vulkan is better overall for performance features and it is an open platform. In a world of mobile gaming, even if MS adds something to DX12.1 or whatever that makes it better overnight, developers are going to want the flexibility to publish their games on more platforms.

A lot of games run naively on linux. If you only view games on steam, anything that shows Steam OS support for a game means it is a native game or a port.

Wine is a mixed bag. Some games and applications run better under linux and through wine, some run the same, some run worse, and the rest don't run at all. This obviously depends on what which shared libraries a game requires. If the wine developers aren't able to use the license for whatever shared libraries, they need to write an open version to substitute. All Wine does is mimic the necessities for a windows executable to run, and since a windows C: drive is one giant junk drawer of a hierarchy mess, you also would need to know a bit about the windows file structure and registry to get the most out of wine. Wine can load DirectX runtimes fairly easily, but I'm not sure DX12 will have a lot of support for a while. If you're a person that likes to solve puzzles on your system and can navigate/read/understand help systems, wine is super easy. Otherwise I would wait until a new generation of frontends make it even simpler.

 

[AussieBear]

One benefit of the new APIs(and also remember, they aren't rolled out in most games yet anyways) is that the games are less CPU reliant. So yes, a faster CPU is... faster, but the gap between an i7 and i5 of current generation shrinks quite a bit. Although threads will be a premium. So basically it's going to be a shift in how Intel numbers their future CPUs. So yes, I'd rather go 6600k than a 6700k or non-k. If that is what you're asking. On air, you're getting the same OCs.


DirectX 12 is a windows feature. Vulkan is a cross platform API. Vulkan is better overall for performance features and it is an open platform. In a world of mobile gaming, even if MS adds something to DX12.1 or whatever that makes it better overnight, developers are going to want the flexibility to publish their games on more platforms.

A lot of games run naively on linux. If you only view games on steam, anything that shows Steam OS support for a game means it is a native game or a port.

Wine is a mixed bag. Some games and applications run better under linux and through wine, some run the same, some run worse, and the rest don't run at all. This obviously depends on what which shared libraries a game requires. If the wine developers aren't able to use the license for whatever shared libraries, they need to write an open version to substitute. All Wine does is mimic the necessities for a windows executable to run, and since a windows C: drive is one giant junk drawer of a hierarchy mess, you also would need to know a bit about the windows file structure and registry to get the most out of wine. Wine can load DirectX runtimes fairly easily, but I'm not sure DX12 will have a lot of support for a while. If you're a person that likes to solve puzzles on your system and can navigate/read/understand help systems, wine is super easy. Otherwise I would wait until a new generation of frontends make it even simpler.

thanks for the input. i may dual and run linux on a separate ssd.

so zen is launching in jan http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-launching-ces-january-2017/

i guess i can wait until then to see whats up. I just noticed the fx8300 drop and its as cheap as the i3 6100. It makes me want to build a 1-2yr hold over system. Id be able to salvage everything from that minus the cpu/mobo for another upgrade... well and ram if i want to go ddr4. Sounds fun... i wanted to build an all red 8350--9xxx last year.. hmm something to ponder... i wonder if the 8300 will hit 4.7-5.0 mhz.. base clock is only 3.3

 

[Wintermute]

thanks for the input. i may dual and run linux on a separate ssd.

so zen is launching in jan http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-launching-ces-january-2017/

i guess i can wait until then to see whats up. I just noticed the fx8300 drop and its as cheap as the i3 6100. It makes me want to build a 1-2yr hold over system. Id be able to salvage everything from that minus the cpu/mobo for another upgrade... well and ram if i want to go ddr4. Sounds fun... i wanted to build an all red 8350--9xxx last year.. hmm something to ponder... i wonder if the 8300 will hit 4.7-5.0 mhz.. base clock is only 3.3

Noticed the FX 8350 price dropped as well. Was thinking along the same lines for the time being until we get confirmation Zen is worth it. Be nice just to swap CPU's without a new MOBO or OS. Although I know I won't see too many real world differences from my current CPU, it'll keep me going for some time.

I'm curious what Zen's price point will be.

 

[AussieBear]

Noticed the FX 8350 price dropped as well. Was thinking along the same lines for the time being until we get confirmation Zen is worth it. Be nice just to swap CPU's without a new MOBO or OS. Although I know I'll see too many real world differences from my current CPU, it'll keep me going for some time.

I'm curious what Zen's price point will be.

zen is am4, 8350 am3... im not sure zen will be backwards compatible or not... zens will be ddr4 and i think am3/3+ only support ddr3.. i may need to double check that though...

whats 8350 in usa?? i see the 8300 is 149 in aus.. same as the i3 6100... it was around 2 something not too long ago iirc. not sure what the 8350 is going for.. ill look later

 

[AussieBear]

DUDE....I GOT A DELL

aussie sanford hard at work.....

I had to go to the dump today to unload a pile of shat we had built up... i found a complete dell... one of those early 2000 p4 dude models... idk what p4 it is.. dont feel like taking the sink off... i need a power cable from a box somewhere.. and dvi to see if itll run... came with a x300 and audigy 2...

also ripped 2 old intel cpus from battered bodies with broken mobos.. both core duo.. e8400 3ghz and e4500 2.2 ghz...

idk what to do with the chips.. need to test them .. if they work may build something out of the 8400 maybe build another htpc... idk. dont really need one though... idk what i can do with the p4 either.. something..

 

[Wintermute]

zen is am4, 8350 am3... im not sure zen will be backwards compatible or not... zens will be ddr4 and i think am3/3+ only support ddr3.. i may need to double check that though...

whats 8350 in usa?? i see the 8300 is 149 in aus.. same as the i3 6100... it was around 2 something not too long ago iirc. not sure what the 8350 is going for.. ill look later

FX 8350 going for $149.00 on both Amazon and Newegg. Be nice if they could sell me the chip without the crappy stock fan I'm just going to scrap. Might save me a few pennies.

Zen is AM4 only.

Looks like Bristol Ridge will support both DDR3/DDR4, Summit Ridge will not:

UPDATE 1/28/16: I talked with AMD early this week and they confirmed that while products designed for the AM4 socket will contain DDR3 memory controllers they will not be enabled. Motherboard that use the AM4 socket will only support the use of DDR4 memory. Additionally both Bristol Ridge and Summit Ridge will be SoCs.

AM4 will support both its AMD’s Bristol Ridge APU which is set to launch in the middle of 2016 and its first Zen-based CPU named Summit Ridge which will arrive on the desktop in Q4. Bristol Ridge will offer compatibility will both DDR3 and DDR4 memory in the AM4 socket and Summit Ridge will only offer support for DDR4. Memory bandwidth has consistently placed a hard limit on the graphics performance of AMD’s APUs so the transition from DDR3 to DDR4 should allow AMD to offer a considerable jump in graphics performance of its upcoming APUs.

The above is dated Jan. 2016, so please correct me if anything has changed.

 

[AussieBear]

FX 8350 going for $149.00 on both Amazon and Newegg. Be nice if they could sell me the chip without the crappy stock fan I'm just going to scrap. Might save me a few pennies.

Zen is AM4 only.

Looks like Bristol Ridge will support both DDR3/DDR4, Summit Ridge will not:

UPDATE 1/28/16: I talked with AMD early this week and they confirmed that while products designed for the AM4 socket will contain DDR3 memory controllers they will not be enabled. Motherboard that use the AM4 socket will only support the use of DDR4 memory. Additionally both Bristol Ridge and Summit Ridge will be SoCs.

AM4 will support both its AMD’s Bristol Ridge APU which is set to launch in the middle of 2016 and its first Zen-based CPU named Summit Ridge which will arrive on the desktop in Q4. Bristol Ridge will offer compatibility will both DDR3 and DDR4 memory in the AM4 socket and Summit Ridge will only offer support for DDR4. Memory bandwidth has consistently placed a hard limit on the graphics performance of AMD’s APUs so the transition from DDR3 to DDR4 should allow AMD to offer a considerable jump in graphics performance of its upcoming APUs.

The above is dated Jan. 2016, so please correct me if anything has changed.

i thought you meant using the 8350 on the same board as the zen.. i know bristol ridge will be able to..

8350 is still 250 here... a fucking waste...i still want to build that amd rig though... the more i keep looking the more i want to buy now.. i just cant find a sweet spot with unknown emerging tech..

still though, you could pick up that 8350 and get a cheap mobo.. pricing is different here.. but if i made up my mind to use that fx 8xxx 2-3 years.. id be okay with it... as long as i had parts leftover i could salvage to add to another build

 

[AussieBear]

some old bristol ridge news from a few weeks ago... a12 oc to 4.8 with a wraith cooler...

it still may be the way to go for some... a12 to zen... since that a12 will be am4.. plus dual graphics with that apu/gpu.. hopefully the rx is a compatible card..

http://techfrag.com/2016/09/23/amd-a12-9800/

 

[AussieBear]

comparing the a12 bristol ridge to the a10 kaveri.. eh.. betta be cheap eh

http://wccftech.com/amd-bristol-ridge-a12-9800-am4-platform-performance/

 

[botfly10]

imma say it again. Just get a used haswell i5 4690k.

Bet you can find one with a motherboard for less that $200 and nothing is gon touch it at that price.

 

[AussieBear]

imma say it again. Just get a used haswell i5 4690k.

Bet you can find one with a motherboard for less that $200 and nothing is gon touch it at that price.

nah youre not getting that for 200 here.. it doesnt matter, i just got a x3430 workstation for 200 to hold me over anyway.. im still getting a cpu upgrade out of the 3470..

i can part out the blu-ray and quadro 600 out of the workstation for about 120.. then ill probably turn around and buy a 1st gen i5 or i7 for 20 bucks and put it back in the system with a old dvd i have laying around and sell it for 150-200.. i may come out ahead by a hundo... which is the cost of a socket 1156 mobo from aliexpress so i can overclock to 3.7-4.0... i basically get a new cpu and mobo for free...

im still buying the other parts for my future rig to use... like the gpu, case, cooler, and psu.. then in a year i can decide which way to go.. zen, new i5/7k or just a better xeon..

 

[AussieBear]

btw.. just look at oz ebay... 4590ks are going up to $500 aud... there are only two used... one is at 284 with two days left... and one newly listed is at 102... it will go for at least 300...

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=i5+4690k&_sop=15

dont get me wrong..its a good chip from all the stuff ive seen over there years.. im just not paying up to 500 for an older chip when newer versions are dropping.. i can get an i7 6700k for 4 something..

aus is fucking aus man...

i-870 selling for 69-120 aud today.. best 1st gen deal today is a i5 750 sitting a 9 bucks..buy it nows for 19-20 though.. i buy one after if those ali boards workto put back in the workstation once i rip out the xeon.. there arent any x3470s chips today.. though they are basically a i-870, they usually sell a few bucks cheaper....

there is a 4670K with a 4.25 bid... but it has 7 days left and the seller wrote.. he/she doesnt know if its working.. so its probably not working...but id probably flip a coin if it stays under 40 bucks

 

[botfly10]

Just get on the US hardwareswap reddit, get a 4690k + mobo combo for $150 and pay the fucking $50 shipping.