Any Tech people here? Windows 11 question

[FozzyBear]

A friend of mine gave me a copy of the developers win 11 iso and I thought about setting it up in a VM before maybe getting a retail copy for my rig. However, I saw theres a TPM requirement. I know Win 8.1 Developers ISO had TPM requirement but the retail ultimately didn't. According to MS Im taking the retail Win 11 will have TPM requirements

"In its announcement on Thursday, Microsoft said that a security chip, such as the TPM 2.0 chip, will be required to run Windows 11 on a PC. However, while TPM 2.0 is ideal, that exact version is not actually required, according to Microsoft documentation on Windows 11 compatibility. As long as a PC has at least TPM 1.2, it will meet the minimum security requirements for Windows 11, Microsoft said. TPM 1.2 is the “hard floor” for installing Windows 11, while TPM 2.0 is a “soft floor,” the company said. Devices that do not meet the hard floor cannot be upgraded to Windows 11, and devices that meet the soft floor will receive a notification that upgrade is not advised,” Microsoft said in the documentation."

My question is, has anyone here bypassed this feature? I saw modding the ISO with win 10 may do the trick, does it? Is that the only way other than upgrading hardware?

Are a lot of people going to have to upgrade their TPM less systems with new rigs when Win 10 support stops in 2025 and they are basically forced to upgrade to Win 11? Well they dont have to blah blah blah. But you know what I mean. Maybe my system is too old, but is TPM fairly common with modern hardware? Or is it really new hardware in the last few years?

Im fairly happy with my set up and dont feel like ill need to upgrade for another decade. Well maybe the GPU, but I dont play games that much anymore. In retrospect, my purchase of the RTX 2060 when it came out has been pointless. I could still be getting by with a lesser card @ 1080p.

Anyway

Win 10
Xeon E5 1650V2 (6 core/12 Thread @ 3.5-3.9)
32 GB DDR 3 ECC in Quad Channel
Chinese X79 Mobo ( Atermiter - Turbo Model aka PLEXHD)
RTX 2060

 

[FozzyBear]

Been searching the webs today and apparently this is an issue for a lot of people. Get ready to shell out for new hardware if you are unlucky or rocking old gear and Windows 11 is your path.

From unsupported very recent cpus to TPM (also called PTT) requirements (min 1.2, recommended 2.0), there seems to be a lot of confusion. Im sure unsupported CPUs will still run as long as the TPM requirements are met. Regardless M$ is planning to leave a lot of systems behind. You may just be one of those people.

You can check you compatibility at the link below. The checker is at the bottom of that page.

Meet Windows 11: Features, Look, Benefits & More | Microsoft

Meet Windows 11, the newest Windows version from Microsoft. Upgrade your PC to Windows 11, or explore which devices come equipped with Windows 11 features.

www.microsoft.com

You may just be a person who needs to enable it in your bios if its available there.

For me, I guess I have to wait for a sure fire hack if Im going windows 11 unless I want spend hundreds of dollar to upgrade. My set up doesnt have TPM and there is no TPM pin module on my mobo. So adding a TPM Module to my board is out. You may be able to add one depending on your motherboards manufacturer. Being that Im using some off brand Chinese firm, yeah, no option for me.

I guess I might research chinese X99 motherboards to see if they have TPM included or at least the pins to add my own module. Im sure if this becomes a big issues theyll just make newer version chinese x79/99 boards with them in the coming years.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

@Crystallas

 

[Anytime23]

Idk what all of this TPM nonsense is but i built a new rig last year and I'm good with 10 for now.

 

[Urblock]

I'm in the wrong thread.

 

[FozzyBear]

Idk what all of this TPM nonsense is but i built a new rig last year and I'm good with 10 for now.

Its arbitrary BS. Just so MS can work with OEMs to force people to buy new hardware, because certain old shit just works well, especially old cpus. Stop using those 1st gen I3,5,7s Xeons, AM3/3+ to play the latest and greatest games right. Maybe its to force some sort of hardware DRM to single devices or something. Im not a conspiracy guy, so I dont know what exact angles to spew.

A newer rig, you should be fine. Im sure you have TPM or PTT of fTPM.

A quick check would be to hit the keys win+r and type in tpm.msc and hit ok. this will open a window and tell whether its enabled or not. If it isnt and you do have it, you would have to enable it in your bios first.

As far as the supported chips issues, Second gen ryzens and newer from AMD are good. 8th gen Intels and newer are good. Anything older than that will no longer be supported. Im sure unsupported CPUs will still work with Win 11 as long as the Tpm requirements are met, just no official support on those cpus.

My hardware is old but still very capable at many tasks. Its laughable that I would need to upgrade for a reskin of Windows 10. Ill still run Windows 10 until 2025, unless theres some backtracking from MS or a work around. If I were still a power user, I would look at upgrading sooner than later. My rig is a glorified e-machine as is.

 

[Anytime23]

Its arbitrary BS. Just so MS can work with OEMs to force people to buy new hardware, because certain old shit just works well, especially old cpus. Stop using those 1st gen I3,5,7s Xeons, AM3/3+ to play the latest and greatest games right. Maybe its to force some sort of hardware DRM to single devices or something. Im not a conspiracy guy, so I dont know what exact angles to spew.

A newer rig, you should be fine. Im sure you have TPM or PTT of fTPM.

A quick check would be to hit the keys win+r and type in tpm.msc and hit ok. this will open a window and tell whether its enabled or not. If it isnt and you do have it, you would have to enable it in your bios first.

As far as the supported chips issues, Second gen ryzens and newer from AMD are good. 8th gen Intels and newer are good. Anything older than that will no longer be supported. Im sure unsupported CPUs will still work with Win 11 as long as the Tpm requirements are met, just no official support on those cpus.

My hardware is old but still very capable at many tasks. Its laughable that I would need to upgrade for a reskin of Windows 10. Ill still run Windows 10 until 2025, unless theres some backtracking from MS or a work around. If I were still a power user, I would look at upgrading sooner than later. My rig is a glorified e-machine as is.

I like gaming, so i imagine I'd be upgrading 4-5 years from now regardless of if 10 is still supported or not. But if i was using an older rig for minimalistic stuff, i would be pissed that id have to upgrade my parts.

But im running
Ryzen 5 3600
RTX 3070
Prime x570-P
and a bunch of other overpriced nonsense so i can chop the head off of kids half my age on Chivalry 2.

 

[FozzyBear]

I like gaming, so i imagine I'd be upgrading 4-5 years from now regardless of if 10 is still supported or not. But if i was using an older rig for minimalistic stuff, i would be pissed that id have to upgrade my parts.

But im running
Ryzen 5 3600
RTX 3070
Prime x570-P
and a bunch of other overpriced nonsense so i can chop the head off of kids half my age on Chivalry 2.

I almost went Ryzen 2600x in 2018, but I bought into X79. Had x58 990X forever until i fucked my mobo changing cases for better airflow. The 990x would still be capable at gaming today with a decent gpu. However, I bought a cheap chinese x58 mobo as a quick fix and was fairly impressed with it. So I decided to do a slight upgrade to x79 (mobo, ram, cpu) for a little more than just the price of the ryzen 2600x by itself. The cheap ass Chinese x79 mobo can overclock too.. not much, but some.

Played any game I threw at it (usually gpu dependent anyway), it streamed well, did well in workloads etc etc. Still wouldnt need to upgrade for years even if I gamed a lot. Maybe a GPU if I wanted to 4k at a max/ultra settings with 60+ FPS. My rig with the RTX 2060 can 4k at med/high setting @ 30-60 FPS depending on the game. I only bought it to play RDR2 @ a custom level 4k. Thing is, I played one mission in RDR2 and havent touched the game since.

That Ryzen 3600 should last longer than 4-5 years. Unless your just one of those PC extremists who needs the latest shit every few years. More power to you if so

 

[Anytime23]

I almost went Ryzen 2600x in 2018, but I bought into X79. Had x58 990X forever until i fucked my mobo changing cases for better airflow. The 990x would still be capable at gaming today with a decent gpu. However, I bought a cheap chinese x58 mobo as a quick fix and was fairly impressed with it. So I decided to do a slight upgrade to x79 (mobo, ram, cpu) for a little more than just the price of the ryzen 2600x by itself. The cheap ass Chinese x79 mobo can overclock too.. not much, but some.

Played any game I threw at it (usually gpu dependent anyway), it streamed well, did well in workloads etc etc. Still wouldnt need to upgrade for years even if I gamed a lot. Maybe a GPU if I wanted to 4k at a max/ultra settings with 60+ FPS. My rig with the RTX 2060 can 4k at med/high setting @ 30-60 FPS depending on the game. I only bought it to play RDR2 @ a custom level 4k. Thing is, I played one mission in RDR2 and havent touched the game since.

That Ryzen 3600 should last longer than 4-5 years. Unless your just one of those PC extremists who needs the latest shit every few years. More power to you if so

I'm not really one who needs it. I usually am streaky. I'll play a ton for a period of time and then not for a while. But i am a sucker for a good deal, so an upgrade is always possible. But it's all dependent on how much these games advance. If in a few years theres something that looks great but my setup isn't optimal, i may upgrade. For now, i like what i have.

 

[FozzyBear]

I'm not really one who needs it. I usually am streaky. I'll play a ton for a period of time and then not for a while. But i am a sucker for a good deal, so an upgrade is always possible. But it's all dependent on how much these games advance. If in a few years theres something that looks great but my setup isn't optimal, i may upgrade. For now, i like what i have.

Im the same but I think I finally outgrew gaming a couple of years ago. Just cant get into anything. Last game I bought myself was NBA 2k21, I played less then 10 games and havent touched it since. If it wasnt for playing the xbox one with the kids, I wouldnt play any games. Maybe its just a very long dip in gaming, IDK.

I dont see PC games advancing much in the next 4-5 years in general. You may have an outlier looking to melt the best GPU out there, but PC game developers cater to the masses. Well the goal is to sell as many games as possible and develop to the masses that it. Sure you might have some ultra ultra IRL graphics mode, but In reality the minimum specs wont move that much. Sure, min specs have moved along way over the last 20 years but its been fairly slow.

Take your RTX 3070, only 1.42% of People on steam have one. Youre a 1%er. The most common GPU on steam is a GTX 1060 (6GB or 3GB?) at 8.65% and GTX 1050 TI at 6.49%. I mean the 750 TI still has 1.01% of the steam market

Most common CPU is a Intel 4 core at 40.38% (Intel still has 69.86% of the steam CPU market)
Most common CPU speed is 3.3 Ghz to 3.69 Ghz at 17.30%
2nd Most common CPU speed is 2.3 Ghz to 2.69 Ghz at 16.55%

Ram 16 GB at 45.11%
Ram 8 GB at 26.26%

Most people are still playing 1080p at 67.24%. Its why I was like I could still be on a lesser card @ 1080p like most. To be honest, 4K is nice and I can tell the difference vs 1080p, but sitting a foot from my monitor its not that big of a difference.

Most common OS. Win 10 at 92.87%

Out of the top 5 current steam games PUBG, and APEX legends still have a minimum requirement of a AMD 6300.
A yuge popular game like GTA V has a min CPU requirement of a Q6600

So on AVG, a gamer is rocking Windows 10 on a 4 core intel at 3.3 Ghz to 3.69 Ghz, 16 gb ram and a GTX 1060 at 1080P.

PC game Developers will develop for minimums far underneath that, more than theyll push over it.

 

[FozzyBear]

More confusion, apparently TPM 1.2 is not a min requirement but TPM 2.0 is the floor.

Also, it seems if your CPU is not on the supported list, your fucked??

For example, if you have a nice fairly recent Seventh Gen I7 6700K 7700K, youre SOL. 1st gen Ryzen is too old, hahah. The rumor that unsupported will still work if other requirements are met seem to be off. Or maybe its just even more confusion.

CSM mode is out? Secure boot will be required.

Guess Ill go Linux in 2025 if Im still not gaming.

​

 

[Anytime23]

Im the same but I think I finally outgrew gaming a couple of years ago. Just cant get into anything. Last game I bought myself was NBA 2k21, I played less then 10 games and havent touched it since. If it wasnt for playing the xbox one with the kids, I wouldnt play any games. Maybe its just a very long dip in gaming, IDK.

I dont see PC games advancing much in the next 4-5 years in general. You may have an outlier looking to melt the best GPU out there, but PC game developers cater to the masses. Well the goal is to sell as many games as possible and develop to the masses that it. Sure you might have some ultra ultra IRL graphics mode, but In reality the minimum specs wont move that much. Sure, min specs have moved along way over the last 20 years but its been fairly slow.

Take your RTX 3070, only 1.42% of People on steam have one. Youre a 1%er. The most common GPU on steam is a GTX 1060 (6GB or 3GB?) at 8.65% and GTX 1050 TI at 6.49%. I mean the 750 TI still has 1.01% of the steam market

Most common CPU is a Intel 4 core at 40.38% (Intel still has 69.86% of the steam CPU market)
Most common CPU speed is 3.3 Ghz to 3.69 Ghz at 17.30%
2nd Most common CPU speed is 2.3 Ghz to 2.69 Ghz at 16.55%

Ram 16 GB at 45.11%
Ram 8 GB at 26.26%

Most people are still playing 1080p at 67.24%. Its why I was like I could still be on a lesser card @ 1080p like most. To be honest, 4K is nice and I can tell the difference vs 1080p, but sitting a foot from my monitor its not that big of a difference.

Most common OS. Win 10 at 92.87%

Out of the top 5 current steam games PUBG, and APEX legends still have a minimum requirement of a AMD 6300.
A yuge popular game like GTA V has a min CPU requirement of a Q6600

So on AVG, a gamer is rocking Windows 10 on a 4 core intel at 3.3 Ghz to 3.69 Ghz, 16 gb ram and a GTX 1060 at 1080P.

PC game Developers will develop for minimums far underneath that, more than theyll push over it.

Where do you find these statistics? I’m curious about it.

 

[FozzyBear]

Where do you find these statistics? I’m curious about it.

this is for may 2021

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

store.steampowered.com

 

[wonky73]

I thought most hardware made in like the last ten years had TPM?
Built a new gaming rig last years. 9th gen core i5, 16 gigs memory, 1tb supre fast ssd RTX 2070. Get's me over 100 fps in CoD both warzone and Cold War.

 

[FozzyBear]

I thought most hardware made in like the last ten years had TPM?
Built a new gaming rig last years. 9th gen core i5, 16 gigs memory, 1tb supre fast ssd RTX 2070. Get's me over 100 fps in CoD both warzone and Cold War.

Its been around for awhile but was usually only implemented in enterprise machines back in the day. Seems to be more common now. A lot of modern mobos have TPM pin layouts on them and only require a module to get it up and running. If 2.0 is the requirement, a lot of those boards will still be dead because they are 1.2

As far as CPU, I think fTPM is in every Ryzen CPU. Cant find anything on AM3/3+. Not that their on the supported WIN 11 list anyway. FX chips are still capable, but not good enough for windows 11. haha

Intel supposedly introduced PTT from 4th gen. Looking at 4th gen though, all Im seeing are there U chips with it and not the desktop. Im not sure if 5th or 6th gen is when their desktop CPUs incorporated PTT.

My family rig is an older desktop I bought from an office I use to work at when they upgraded. The machine is from 2013/14 I think. It has TPM 1.2 firmware on board, but running the MS WIN 11 update check, its being flagged for an incompatible CPU.

The CPU is a Xeon E3-1240V2 (I7 3770k Equivalent). 4 Core/8 thread @ 3.4-3.8. Still relevant enough today, just not relevant enough for WIN 11

​

 

[Crystallas]

Guess Ill go Linux in 2025 if Im still not gaming.

​

Here's what will likely happen. You wont switch in 2025 because of microsoft's actions. If you haven't switched by now and gone through the learning curve, you're likely not going to switch. Just deal with the whole every-other major release will be a step backwards, and the subsequent release will merely be a compromise of features lost from one version to the next. It's never a total loss, because you'll be sharing the pain with a huge chunk of the world and people will have work-a-rounds that make using it livable. That, or you could just get locked into everything and run MacOS which is the only other option and deal with the same type of cycle except with a completely different approach.

I game on linux. Since I'd say ....the last 11 years have been fine for me, rarely is there something I can't get working flawlessly w/o a VM or secondary system. But I also know by now, people make the linux threat a lot, never follow through because they are too invested.

 

[FozzyBear]

Here's what will likely happen. You wont switch in 2025 because of microsoft's actions. If you haven't switched by now and gone through the learning curve, you're likely not going to switch. Just deal with the whole every-other major release will be a step backwards, and the subsequent release will merely be a compromise of features lost from one version to the next. It's never a total loss, because you'll be sharing the pain with a huge chunk of the world and people will have work-a-rounds that make using it livable. That, or you could just get locked into everything and run MacOS which is the only other option and deal with the same type of cycle except with a completely different approach.

I game on linux. Since I'd say ....the last 11 years have been fine for me, rarely is there something I can't get working flawlessly w/o a VM or secondary system. But I also know by now, people make the linux threat a lot, never follow through because they are too invested.

Im not an Apple guy. There are IPADS in the house though. Kids.

I wouldnt say Im too invested in MS and their products. Yes there is an Xbox is in the house, but I use stuff like LibreOffice, Krita/Gimp, Blender, Open Shot, VLC etc, which I know are available for Linux.

The only thing thats really held me back in years past was the narrative, that gaming was difficult on Linux. That graphic support wasnt the best either, but Ive read thats changed. Being a heavy gamer in the past, that was the issue for me. Im still unclear on the finer details, but Ive seen wine, proton has made it a lot easier to game on Linux.

Being that I havent been gaming heavily the last couple of years and MS is making me earmark for at least two new rigs by such and such date if I want WIN 11, that might be enough to push me. AND the fact that gaming looks easier from the outside looking in, that would be a plus if I wanted to dabble.

I dont mind shopping for hardware. I dont mind going after a want. I dont mind doing slight upgrades for a boost. I dont mind upgrading when needed. I just dont like how MS is going about it and forcing out capable hardware if that is indeed the case. Now if for whatever reason my cpus just couldnt push windows, yeah okay. Thats just not the case and Im ODD by nature.

My upgrade plan was eventually to go Chinese X99 and DDR 4 when thats dirt cheap and when DDR 5 is all the rage. Well its not that expensive with a Chinese X99 board and lesser GHZ chips right now. I mean could just full turbo a 2678v3 to 3.3 by flashing a Chinese mobo with an updated Russian bios . BUT Im just waiting for even higher clocked chips to come down in price. That might not be for a few years anyway. So I have time regardless.

If MS does go through with limiting things and I still want to play with some cheap X99 and there is no go around, yeah Linux will be the path.

 

[FozzyBear]

I mean could just full turbo a 2678v3 to 3.3

For those not wondering

Speaking on the E5 2678 V3 its a 22nm 12 Core/24 Thread CPU running @ 2.5-3.3. It launched in 2015 at $1745.00?

Fully turboed to 3.3 it can punch up for sure. Ryzen 9 3900x is 12c/24t, but its also $500 by itself. It will absolutely destroy the 2678v3 at everything. Im not saying it even closely competes - it doesnt. Just saying though. I mean a I9 9900K is 8c/16t and will destroy the 2678 too, well definitely in single core and gaming. The gap closes when the 2678 is full turboed and doing multithreaded application thingamajigs.

The I9 is like $330. Add some ram, mobo and we are talking $550-650+?

The 2678 V3 combined with a Chinese X99 motherboard and 16GB DDR 4... Ive seen it for as low as $240-260.

Say you wanted an productivity first machine that just happened to play games too, It would be good value for money.

 

[Dogstar]

Guess Ill go Linux in 2025 if Im still not gaming

Why wait? Do it right meow.

Linux Mint is a great place to start for those that aren't familiar. Nice easy setup, runs well on crap hardware (as long as it's 64-bit) and it's an Ubuntu offshoot so there's a ton of support out there.

There's three desktop interfaces available. I've always been an Xfce fan, but Cinnamon has grown on me.

If you've got an older PC collecting dust, give it a try... srsly.

 

[FozzyBear]

Why wait? Do it right meow.

Linux Mint is a great place to start for those that aren't familiar. Nice easy setup, runs well on crap hardware (as long as it's 64-bit) and it's an Ubuntu offshoot so there's a ton of support out there.

There's three desktop interfaces available. I've always been an Xfce fan, but Cinnamon has grown on me.

If you've got an older PC collecting dust, give it a try... srsly.

IDK about making a hard permanent switch now, but am looking into different destros. I will start messing with ones osboxes have via virtualbox.

IF anyone else is interested, some links below

Oracle VirtualBox

www.virtualbox.org

VirtualBox Images

Download virtual machine (VDIs) for VirtualBox, which are installed by our team and ready to use for you. We provide ready-to-use virtualbox images

www.osboxes.org