Anyone Recall THIS Many Question Marks Going Into a Season?

DMelt36

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There is much more to it than that. Actually building the team in the Superbowl year, we used free agents, and the offensive line was pretty good. After then he tried again, and I said myself how bad it was to be drafting guys already hurt. Then we had no early picks for a couple of years because of the Cutler trade. That really set us back because you really need to draft in the first round to get an impact offensive lineman, and we didn't have any. Then he drafted Carimi first, which most everybody loved, and he immediately got injured.

I am not defending our offense or offensive line for the last number of years, but he tried hard at it, he just failed at it, kind of what Emery and Trestman are doing so far with defense and special teams.

Yeah that Super Bowl OL was fantastic but built primarily through FA. Only Kreutz was a Bears pick. The rest of them (John Tait at LT, Ruben Brown at LG, Garza at RG, and Fred Miller at RT) were all FA acquisitions. Tait/Brown were signed going into 2004, Garza and Miller before the '05 season.
 

WCL

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There is much more to it than that. Actually building the team in the Superbowl year, we used free agents, and the offensive line was pretty good. After then he tried again, and I said myself how bad it was to be drafting guys already hurt. Then we had no early picks for a couple of years because of the Cutler trade. That really set us back because you really need to draft in the first round to get an impact offensive lineman, and we didn't have any. Then he drafted Carimi first, which most everybody loved, and he immediately got injured.

I am not defending our offense or offensive line for the last number of years, but he tried hard at it, he just failed at it, kind of what Emery and Trestman are doing so far with defense and special teams.

I've said before that Angelo put more effort into the o-line than any other position group. He failed, but it wasn't for a lack of effort.
 

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I've said before that Angelo put more effort into the o-line than any other position group. He failed, but it wasn't for a lack of effort.
Just asking, how do you figure that? As I posted above, he used an abundance of 7th round picks, but few high picks on OL over his 11 yrs. As for free agents, the Tait signing was a very good player in his prime, but Brown and Miller were older stop gap types and Garza was Slausen-esque. Beyond that signing Qaisim Mitchells and Omiyales is hardly investing in the position.
12 top 4 rd picks at DL vs 6 at OL, not to mention Peppers with the biggest contract in team history outside of JC's.
JA used 8% of his non 7th round draft picks on a position group that occupies 23% of the 22 primary positions, how much less would he have to do for you to consider his approach to OL value neglectful?
 

ClydeLee

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Just asking, how do you figure that? As I posted above, he used an abundance of 7th round picks, but few high picks on OL over his 11 yrs. As for free agents, the Tait signing was a very good player in his prime, but Brown and Miller were older stop gap types and Garza was Slausen-esque. Beyond that signing Qaisim Mitchells and Omiyales is hardly investing in the position.
12 top 4 rd picks at DL vs 6 at OL, not to mention Peppers with the biggest contract in team history outside of JC's.
JA used 8% of his non 7th round draft picks on a position group that occupies 23% of the 22 primary positions, how much less would he have to do for you to consider his approach to OL value neglectful?



Orlando Pace and Omiyale got big contracts, Chris Williams and Carimi were both 1st rounders. The problem is none of his FA choices that worked before as Vet guys, they were rough failures, from Pace, Spencer, to Shaffer. There wasn't even someone as poorly dependable like Fred Miller in that group.

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Toast88

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Then we had no early picks for a couple of years because of the Cutler trade. That really set us back because you really need to draft in the first round to get an impact offensive lineman, and we didn't have any.

Agree with a lot of your points, but I just can't get behind the "the Cutler pickup hurt our draft prospects" argument because if I know the Bears front office, I know they would've found a way anyway to screw up those picks. Might as well get the best Bears QB of all time with those picks. (shrugs)
 

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Might as well get the best Bears QB of all time with those picks. (shrugs)

There was a time that statement would inspire dick rippage.
I think this board may have mellowed after that taste of sour Buffalo sauce today. As in "it could be worse".
 

WCL

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Just asking, how do you figure that? As I posted above, he used an abundance of 7th round picks, but few high picks on OL over his 11 yrs. As for free agents, the Tait signing was a very good player in his prime, but Brown and Miller were older stop gap types and Garza was Slausen-esque. Beyond that signing Qaisim Mitchells and Omiyales is hardly investing in the position.
12 top 4 rd picks at DL vs 6 at OL, not to mention Peppers with the biggest contract in team history outside of JC's.
JA used 8% of his non 7th round draft picks on a position group that occupies 23% of the 22 primary positions, how much less would he have to do for you to consider his approach to OL value neglectful?

This is when we had access to the CBMB archives. I spent way too long looking into the numbers on this a few times.

But if you look at the numbers you listed before, 2004 and 2005 were the years he brought in the free agents that would make up the Super Bowl line. He should have invested in some mid-rounders at the same time, but he didn't. I think that was the biggest problem with his approach.

'07 was when the line started to fall apart. That's why you see more picks following the Super Bowl. The number and value of the picks during that era is higher than the NFL average (and I ran those numbers once, it was a pain in the ass).

At the same time, free agents were being brought in. After the Super Bowl line that included Brown, Miller, Tait and Garza (all free agents), he brought in Pace, Omiyale and Chris Spencer. Those guys were expensive. It was a waste of money, but he was still spending on that group. Again, it's ineptitude, not lack of effort.

If you look at his first round picks, you've got 3 OL, 2 DL, 1 WR, 1 TE, 1 QB and 1 RB. Not only did the OL receive more first-round picks than any other position group, but the entire defense only got two first-round picks the entire time he was here.

He selected 14 o-linemen while making 89 picks. That's 16%. If a team carries 8 linemen, that's 15% of the roster. If they carry 9 linemen, that's 17% percent of the roster. The percentage of picks is perfectly in line with the percentage of the roster.

So the percentage of picks is where it should be, he used more first-rounders at the position than anywhere else and he put more effort into that group in free agency than any other. The effort was there.

Most o-lines in the league have a pretty even split between early, mid and late round picks (I had the numbers on that too, I wish those archives were available). His use of first-rounders and late-rounders was higher than average. In terms of his approach, the mistake he made was neglecting the mid-rounds, especially from '03 to '06. That's the only fault I have with the approach.

But his biggest problem was talent and injury evaluation. He spent a lot in free agency, but it was wasted. He spent three first-roudners, but they were all injured. His mid and late round guys didn't pan out. That's shitiness, not laziness.
 

WCL

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Orlando Pace and Omiyale got big contracts, Chris Williams and Carimi were both 1st rounders. The problem is none of his FA choices that worked before as Vet guys, they were rough failures, from Pace, Spencer, to Shaffer. There wasn't even someone as poorly dependable like Fred Miller in that group.

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I could have just written that and saved myself a lot of typing.
 

WCL

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Agree with a lot of your points, but I just can't get behind the "the Cutler pickup hurt our draft prospects" argument because if I know the Bears front office, I know they would've found a way anyway to screw up those picks. Might as well get the best Bears QB of all time with those picks. (shrugs)

Also, Orton was going to be a free agent at the end of the following season. So the Bears most likely would have spent either the '09 or '10 pick on a QB. So that pick was going to get used to acquire Cutler or to draft a QB. Either way, it probably wasn't going to be used on a lineman.

It's really just a one pick difference.
 

truthbedamned

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Seriously, tell me why I (or anyone for that matter) bothers with this site. Is it a bar stool type discussion of sports? Every bit I just brought up was discussed by Matt Bowen today - one of the most astute football analysts on the planet.

Nope. It's a tard marathon of who can post the most gifs.

Why not just call it 'cool gifs' or something and everyone can just post gifs all day long. You could even start polls of 'bro with the coolest gif post of the day'.

That would inspire another cool gif...and it will go on from there.

I actually enjoy the GIF's.....mixed in with serious posts......I enjoy the serious Bears post's....but I also enjoy the satirical GIF's....much different than other Bears message boards.......keep it up:)....Where did you find the redhead blowing his brains out?......
 
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JesusHalasChrist

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Also, Orton was going to be a free agent at the end of the following season. So the Bears most likely would have spent either the '09 or '10 pick on a QB. So that pick was going to get used to acquire Cutler or to draft a QB. Either way, it probably wasn't going to be used on a lineman.

It's really just a one pick difference.

The trade looks even better when you look at the QBs that would have been available in 09 or 10. Say what you will about Cutler, but he's better than Jimmy Clauson and Tim Tebow.
 
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