Are we sold on Braxton Jones?

[JoJoBoxer]

Will there be any good OT's when we're picking in the 2024 or 2025 drafts? What place are you predicting we draft then?

This is why I was against loading up the oline with late rounds. I knew it would be just like J'Taco, Leno and Massie. No upgrades ever allowed, we need defense more than we need to give the QB a fighting chance. It's OK that they're getting pushed into and tackling our own QB, anyone can play oline.

The only thing that would keep him from getting stronger or slot him to being a backup is Poles does the usual GM thing and requires his high picks to be starters even if there are better options. Probably would happen but we don't know that yet. He could also claim his 5th rounder is a GOAT and want him to be starter.

I never said that the Bears are not allowed to draft offensive linemen. I just stated that 1st round offensive linemen are not sure things either.

If they draft that Paris guy, as an example, the Bears will have the same issues they have with Braxton. Maybe that is not so bad because Braxton will have had an offseason to become NFL strong or at least closer to being NFL strong.

It would be a good thing to have in 2024, two athletic and stronger OTs who can be bookends for the Bears for a decade or so, if they both pan out.

One thing though, they should not immediately pencil in that Paris guy or whichever OT they draft in the first round. Let them compete for the starting spot.

I am absolutely not against drafting a LT type of lineman in the first. Some positions which they should bypass in the first, unless it is after a trade down to the end of the first round is guard, RT or linebacker. Guard and RT are too early for being drafted, think 2nd, 3rd round or later. Poles has shown that he does not value the linebacker position so the 2nd round may be the sweet spot to get a really good one.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Excuse me but where is this in Jones'profile?

This is also not directed at you specifically but Jones is not playing to the level of the guys drafted before him. Maybe this was true after weeks 1-2, but those players have played much better since then, and guys getting criticism, like high pick ekwonu, are playing much better. Their ceiling is also higher.

Braxton Jones Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

www.nfl.com

"He has the upside to become an average starting left tackle, but swing tackle feels like the safer projection."

This is currently what I see. He is not a top 20 LT at this point. He has potential upside to work to average, but is this what you want from one of the most important positions on your offense, a guy with potential to be average? Maybe we should expect that from QB etc ....

Damn, you need to read everything and carefully.

I took a part of the profile of the LT that the site had the Bears picking at 6, Paris something from Ohio State. In it, it said that he needed to add strength, especially lower body strength.

Well, these are the main issues that Braxton is experiencing. Braxton's main issues aren't that DEs are using him as a turnstile, blowing right by him. His problem is that he needs to add strength, especially lower body strength.

Many of the things that Zierlein said are not really his issues. He is being manhandled because he is too weak, especially the lower body strength is missing.

An example, do you really think that he has "below-average acceleration to second level landmarks"?

That seems to be one of his strengths, not a weakness.

"I see a lot to work with so I don't really care about the rough edges." -- Pro personnel director for AFC Team

Do you really think that the pro personnel director wouldn't care about the rough edges if he saw his roof as only a backup or swing tackle?

If and when he builds up his strength, especially lower body, he will be a starter level LT. If the Bears do draft a LT in the 1st round, it should be a competition between Braxton and this player. Let the best man win.

Hell, if Borom comes back looking like St. Brown's father in his prime and shows out better than both Braxton and whichever LT they draft in the first round, give the starting job to Borom.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I just don't see Skoronski being athletic enough to fit into the Bears outside zone blocking scheme. When he tries to make a block in the second level, he is as slow as molasses.

I think he will be a fine pick for some team that is running power or strictly inside zone.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I just don't see Skoronski being athletic enough to fit into the Bears outside zone blocking scheme. When he tries to make a block in the second level, he is as slow as molasses.

I think he will be a fine pick for some team that is running power or strictly inside zone.

Here is an example of molasses.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I agree. Jones has shown some potential. He still has ways to go in pass pro. Should it guarantee him a starting spot next year? I don’t think so.

If Olu Fashanu is on the board when we pick, it would be extremely hard to pass on him. Not even 20 yet and is already a smooth pass protector. I’m a big fan.

I would love it if he added a little nasty to his game. Not much of a punch.

 

[ZenBear34]

Where he is now should be what we aspire to have as a backup. He's a rookie and should get better so could end up who you want as a starter. I wouldn't refuse to upgrade in the draft or FA but I also wouldn't make that call until the season is over. I wouldn't bank on a promise of an off season to avoid upgrading, we will likely need backups at some point and if we have an extra good RT we gave a 5th for that would actually be a trade we might not lose on.




Of course if he was taken in the 1st or 2nd nobody would be questioning because he was already proven good enough in college to be taken high. You seriously can't figure out how that works? Draft position does matter.
Likewise if he was taken 1st or 2nd and was playing like he is people would be calling him a bust and others would be saying he's a rookie and would get used to the NFL.

I'm very curious how if you can rank Leno getting pushed back (still backpeddling in DC) into the QB here as "was very good" why you aren't ranking Jones as already a GOAT since he can actually hold a defender at times and even push them.
I think most Bears fans are used to be sold on the idea that anyone can play oline and expect that anyone level of play to qualify as good.

How what works? Every high round pick is better than every low round pick? Players prove themselves in the pros, what they did in college is irrelevant. It's nothing but perception. It's why Kevin White is still floating around. Because people think a guy getting taken early means he must have untapped potential. But that's not reality.

The reality is Jones is the best rookie tackle. And he has upside. It's just perception. Because he was a late round pick instead of a high round pick, he must not actually be that good. but he is, and he has all the tools needed to get better. Based on what he's shown in the NFL, he is the left tackle of the future. The odds are even if the Bears take a LT in the top 5 of the draft, he won't perform as well as Jones has this year.

And I don't know what to tell you. Leno is good left tackle. He's always been a good left tackle, but Bears fans inexplicably always wanted to replace him. Because, again, most fans have zero idea how to evaluate offensive lineman.

 

[SugarWalls]

Damn, you need to read everything and carefully.

I took a part of the profile of the LT that the site had the Bears picking at 6, Paris something from Ohio State. In it, it said that he needed to add strength, especially lower body strength.

Well, these are the main issues that Braxton is experiencing. Braxton's main issues aren't that DEs are using him as a turnstile, blowing right by him. His problem is that he needs to add strength, especially lower body strength.

Many of the things that Zierlein said are not really his issues. He is being manhandled because he is too weak, especially the lower body strength is missing.

An example, do you really think that he has "below-average acceleration to second level landmarks"?

That seems to be one of his strengths, not a weakness.


Do you really think that the pro personnel director wouldn't care about the rough edges if he saw his roof as only a backup or swing tackle?

There is a reason jones was projected as a 5th-6th rounder, and then proceeded to be drafted in the 5th round.

Top talent LT's do not make it passed round 1 let alone 2, and then get drafted in the 5th. Sure it is entirely possible that Jones develops into a bonafide LT.... its also possible you buy a lottery ticket, win, and retire.

Chances are slim. We have seen the bears do this over and over and over ... webb, leno, now jones. If the bears pass on a top LT in the draft and roll with Jones ... if he doesn't make strides forward they will be regretting the decision.

It's a gamble. To pretend like Jones will DEFINITELY develop is foolish. We see this every year with many players. Personally, that's not a risk I'd take with a position so important.

I'd draft the top LT available, and see if Jones can play RT.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

There is a reason jones was projected as a 5th-6th rounder, and then proceeded to be drafted in the 5th round.

Top talent LT's do not make it passed round 1 let alone 2, and then get drafted in the 5th. Sure it is entirely possible that Jones develops into a bonafide LT.... its also possible you buy a lottery ticket, win, and retire.

Chances are slim. We have seen the bears do this over and over and over ... webb, leno, now jones. If the bears pass on a top LT in the draft and roll with Jones ... if he doesn't make strides forward they will be regretting the decision.

It's a gamble. To pretend like Jones will DEFINITELY develop is foolish. We see this every year with many players. Personally, that's not a risk I'd take with a position so important.

I'd draft the top LT available, and see if Jones can play RT.

Wrong. You can draft the top LT, but you cannot just hand the job to him.

Let everyone earn their spots. If that top LT beats out everyone, then he earned the spot and can grow in it. If Braxton, Borom or a surprise player outplays everyone, that person should start.

Simple.

 

[Thedude]

Sold is too strong a word at this point.

But I’m fine with giving him another season to develop and spending resources on our other needs including:

WR
Center
Right Tackle
DE
DT
LB
CB
Water boy

This.
Also Whitehair was out with injury early for multiple week and there was shuffling with the guard spot that he had to deal with.

 

[DrGonzo]

It’s as if the roster has a lot of talent deficiencies

Which is why I'm okay if the Bears go LT in the first next year and I'm also okay if they go with a more highly rated WR or DL. Jones is not their biggest worry and there's no reason he can't get better but it's a position most teams would upgrade if they can afford to.

 

[Bearly]

So....hear me out....why not flip him to RT?

Because he's better with speed rushers than bull rushers and we've never seen him drop on the right. I see him as better suited to LT but needs to get stronger. He needs to get more stout and that would be equally true on either side. The thing about LT is that you get more edge benders.

He plays high, gets higher after engaging and walked back too often. That needs weight and strength as I doubt he'll ever play that much lower but his awareness and technique is much improved from college. The guy is obviously smart and takes coaching. I suspect he'll make the same commitment to improving his body this off season. May take 2 years to reach his potential but next year should look much better if he's that guy.

He's good in the run game because he's an aware zone blocker but he's no road grader.

 

[vinson555]

Jones and Jenkins are the last two on the line right now you look to replace. If you find a cheap vet next season and he pans out to be better than where Jones is at or he shows no signs of getting better, send the message that he still needs to get better.

- Whitehair is debatable because of his contract, Poles will have to decide if he is worth keeping at what his is paid, or is he can use it to fill out depth on the team. E Jax would be in this same boat, but he has played well enough this season.

- Patrick is debatable, simply because he hasn't been able to stay on the field. Not sure how much of the 4 million he would be owed is dead cap but it wouldn't matter since he is not owed a thing *after* next offseason.

- Borum... above average run blocker, likely one of the worst pass blocking tackles you have. Some say he just a backup, maybe they are right, but he is only 23. With him and Jones, I'm not saying upgrade over them, or try, but I feel this offseason, he is a guy I'd rather let coaching get a full offseason to work with him along with Jones and see if they get better. What we say about one 5th round pick the Bears have made, can be said about the other. They both have upsides, along with age, but they both have something to work on. Borum more so than Jones.

 

[TonyDogs]

You have to like what Jones has done. 5th round pick thrown to the wolves as the second most important player on offense... and he's been fine for the most part. He's held his own and I don't think he's been flagged all year. He'll improve in the offseason, too. If we can get an elite tackle I say go get him, but I'm more concerned with how quickly our interior gets destroyed.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

I am. I see all the tools needed to be a quality left tackle and a guy who is already way ahead where he should be. If he was drafted in the 1st or 2nd round no one would be questioning wether he was the long term answer based on how he has played.

Now if the Orlando Brown is available and the Bears want to throw $100 million at him or whatever it will cost that's fine. But I haven't seen anything from Jones that isn't fixable with a full off-season in an NFL weight training program and improved technique.

And Charles Leno was a very good LT, and remains a very good LT. I don't think most fans have any idea how to evaluate offensive lineman.

I agree on Jones he will be fine.

 

[Myk]

I never said that the Bears are not allowed to draft offensive linemen. I just stated that 1st round offensive linemen are not sure things either.

If they draft that Paris guy, as an example, the Bears will have the same issues they have with Braxton. Maybe that is not so bad because Braxton will have had an offseason to become NFL strong or at least closer to being NFL strong.

It would be a good thing to have in 2024, two athletic and stronger OTs who can be bookends for the Bears for a decade or so, if they both pan out.

One thing though, they should not immediately pencil in that Paris guy or whichever OT they draft in the first round. Let them compete for the starting spot.

I am absolutely not against drafting a LT type of lineman in the first. Some positions which they should bypass in the first, unless it is after a trade down to the end of the first round is guard, RT or linebacker. Guard and RT are too early for being drafted, think 2nd, 3rd round or later. Poles has shown that he does not value the linebacker position so the 2nd round may be the sweet spot to get a really good one.

That's what I'm saying. It's not a bad thing to have 2 good LTs on a rookie contract. At worst if one can't go to RT we get something in a trade. If it's Jones who has to go we can surely upgrade the 5th we gave. If it's the 1st rounder we should at least get a 1st and should get something more.
Of course there's no guarantees but that applies to any position. We need to get the oline in order ASAP if we're saying Fields is the guy. If Jones isn't showing he's a GOAT by the end of the year I'd say OT 1st (I'm very OK with trading down if we have a top 3 pick, just get a 1st round LT if it's needed).

I'd much rather have got a high OT than putting Long at guard. I definitely didn't see him as bad as many others did but I think their view was clouded by him being a 1st round guard than the quality of his play.

If we don't need a RT I wouldn't mind a 1st round center. GOATs at those 2 positions will boost the rest of the line.

 

[2MuchChino]

He's one of the better zone blocking LTs in the league, he has very good lateral movement for the position. He gets dominated by competent bull rushes, even when he doesnt lose his block he gives up a bunch of "back pressures" where he gets walked into the pocket/QB although he does often sustain his block while getting pushed back. You can teach/develop strength and technique, things like footspeed/being able to stay in front of NFL DEs usually cant be picked up.

He does need to improve significantly in pass protection but its in areas where you expect tackles to grow. Theres the potential for him to develop into a very valuable player, and one who synergizes with Fields skill set, Bears would be foolish to give up on his development this early into it.

He has the tools and potential. No need to give up. Having said that, the Bears should still draft /FA a top OT and C. The OL needs to get better. Play the best 5.

 

[Myk]

How what works? Every high round pick is better than every low round pick? Players prove themselves in the pros, what they did in college is irrelevant. It's nothing but perception. It's why Kevin White is still floating around. Because people think a guy getting taken early means he must have untapped potential. But that's not reality.

The reality is Jones is the best rookie tackle. And he has upside. It's just perception. Because he was a late round pick instead of a high round pick, he must not actually be that good. but he is, and he has all the tools needed to get better. Based on what he's shown in the NFL, he is the left tackle of the future. The odds are even if the Bears take a LT in the top 5 of the draft, he won't perform as well as Jones has this year.

And I don't know what to tell you. Leno is good left tackle. He's always been a good left tackle, but Bears fans inexplicably always wanted to replace him. Because, again, most fans have zero idea how to evaluate offensive lineman.

Jones is the best rookie tackle in the NFL??? BS! Ikem Ekwonu actually knocks players down and pushes them. And that's just the first one I looked at because Evan Neal got injured. That's not saying Jones won't become great but he's certainly not the best rookie.

I didn't say every high round pick is better than every low round pick. Your reading comprehension is as accurate as your view of players. I said he could be good, but right now his level of play is what we should be shooting for in backups. His level of play is higher than what we've been accepting as starters for our last 3-4 LTs.

White suffered from brittle bones while on the Bears. His health had nothing to do with his ability. He's still floating around because in spite of missing early years he isn't as bad as your perception of him is because he sucked for the Bears. He's got the talent to get try outs and contracts, he is missing a lot of experience to make teams.

Since you think low round picks are OK I guess that means you would be fine with trading down and taking nothing but 7th round defense from now on. We can take the first 4 rounds all on offense from now on. And both of us will be happy.

Odds are if Bears take a 1st OT Jones moves to RT or is backup.
Guess what, you are one of those most fans who don't know how to evaluate. Obviously you're blinded by team fanaticism. You claiming Leno is good and Jones is better than Ekwonu proves it. STFU and stop acting like an expert.

 

[Myk]

I just don't see Skoronski being athletic enough to fit into the Bears outside zone blocking scheme. When he tries to make a block in the second level, he is as slow as molasses.

I think he will be a fine pick for some team that is running power or strictly inside zone.

I just did drugs and an edible so I could take more drugs so my eyes can't follow as fast as that's cut but what I did catch was that LT would be in competition with Jones.
Based on what I saw I wouldn't say that was a must have 1st round pick when you add a little more NFL difficulty setting.
But it's way too early to be putting that much effort into picking players for the draft (unless you like watching college). I'd rather wait for post season projections and then look at highlights.

Which is why I'm okay if the Bears go LT in the first next year and I'm also okay if they go with a more highly rated WR or DL. Jones is not their biggest worry and there's no reason he can't get better but it's a position most teams would upgrade if they can afford to.

The only thing I don't like about a 1st round WR is how much they'll cost in 4-5 years. Is Poles willing to pay for it like no Bears have before?

He has the tools and potential. No need to give up. Having said that, the Bears should still draft /FA a top OT and C. The OL needs to get better. Play the best 5.

Problem with FAs at OT and C is if they have talent and available they're probably old and if they're old and talented they're probably expensive for what they have left. That's not ruling it out but it's but IMO it doesn't have a high odds of being there or a bang for the buck move. If it's there it could be a good stop gap move and maybe teach Jones enough to push him into being great.

 

[bearsfan1977]

Here is an example of molasses.

I’m not a scout, but the tape I’ve seen shows a player with unbelievable agility, footwork and quickness. His athletic ability as a T prospect is off the charts. And the scouting reports written by people who do that for a living say the same things. His pass pro is next-level as far as technique. He blocks everything in front of him.

Don’t think showing 1 bad play (for any player) is indicative of a complete profile. My concern for him is not his quickness, but his length, and whether he’d have to kick inside to G. Just my opinion.

I wouldn’t hate that pick at all. Put him at LT and Jones at RT. Or Skoronski at LT, sign Conklin for RT, and Jones can be the swing T.

Of course, that’s only if Jalen Carter is off the board. He’s my guy.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I’m not a scout, but the tape I’ve seen shows a player with unbelievable agility, footwork and quickness. His athletic ability as a T prospect is off the charts. And the scouting reports written by people who do that for a living say the same things. His pass pro is next-level as far as technique. He blocks everything in front of him.

Don’t think showing 1 bad play (for any player) is indicative of a complete profile. My concern for him is not his quickness, but his length, and whether he’d have to kick inside to G. Just my opinion.

I wouldn’t hate that pick at all. Put him at LT and Jones at RT. Or Skoronski at LT, sign Conklin for RT, and Jones can be the swing T.

Of course, that’s only if Jalen Carter is off the board. He’s my guy.

I have not done some big study on him. I also didn't give you just one play. I had a video of one complete game. I did see good technique with his pass protection. What I did not see was the athleticism to block outside. Seeing that the Bears are running an outside blocking scheme, it should be an important part of his game.

That is why I said that he should be a good pro in the proper type of offense.

One thing I had heard from him was that he had previously played center. Now, as a center with excellent pass pro and having a much smaller area to block (no pulling, please), he would be an intriguing player to take that spot over.

I will have to see more games from him. Maybe he was sick as a dog or was injured that game and that made him look much slower.

I did see that people were saying how athletic he was. I just did not see it in THAT game.