Arlington Heights bluff called and they are folding.

[IBleedBearsBlood]

Just been reading some comments from Athletic from some season ticket holders who are really disappointed in this Chicago lake front development. It all obviously revolves around how hard it is to get in and out and the parking but also the lack of tailgating compared to other places.

I'm stunned reading this, that there are actually Bears fans who want them to play in Arlington. But I guess it's easy for me to say that, living in SF and not going to games anymore. I grew up on corner of Clark/Fullerton so it wasn't a big deal for me to take bus to games but obviously there are so many who live outside city who they can't do that.

And even though the lake front seems like a pretty cool place for a Bears stadium compared to freaking Arlington Heights, getting in and out obviously matters, especially if you go to a lot of games.

Really took me by surprise though.

Really disappointed but yet they keep going to the games and buying season tickets with the already in and out traffic and the Bears sucking too. They’ll still be there no matter what. And if not, others will take their place.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

Your logic makes no sense. AH would cost a fuck ton more than a stadium in Chicago so if the McCaskey's are cash poor then it is fucking stupid for them to try to build a 5 billion campus with zero real estate background. Especially when most projects almost always go over budget so if they are saying it is 5 billion then the cost likely ends up closer to 7-10 billion.

Here are the owners that own their stadiums and/or built campuses.

Kroenke - background in real estate development.

Ross - background in real estate development

Tepper - Background in Asset Management which includes a real estate portfolio.

Kraft - Background in construction and real estate development

Josh Harris - Background in private equity and corporate finance which includes real estate portfolio.

Are you sensing a theme yet? Again it is incredibly stupid for a cash poor family with zero fucking real estate experience to try and build a 5 billion campus. Like Jesus Christ look how they have run the Bears. I wouldn't trust them to manage a 7-11.

Are you dumb enough to think they’re not going to get public funding for this? The NFL would throw money behind this. They would have no problem getting private investment capital either.

Again I don’t care about the McCaskeys not having real estate development background. Fucking hire somebody who does. Do you seriously think they can’t find people to manage a property for them? Your entire premise of them not being trusted to manage it is irrelevant, they don’t have to manage it themselves. Companies outsource things they can’t do themselves all the time. There’s an entire consulting industry built around it.

 

[remydat]

Are you dumb enough to think they’re not going to get public funding for this? The NFL would throw money behind this. They would have no problem getting private investment capital either.

Again I don’t care about the McCaskeys not having real estate development background. Fucking hire somebody who does. Do you seriously think they can’t find people to manage a property for them? Your entire premise of them not being trusted to manage it is irrelevant, they don’t have to manage it themselves. Companies outsource things they can’t do themselves all the time. There’s an entire consulting industry built around it.

If they had all the funding for it they wouldn't be begging AH for tax breaks. And yes they would have a problem as they have no actual experience here. Again there is a reason Warren pivoted to the Lakefront.

Again you are being dense. They have spent the last 40 years hiring the wrong people to run a football team with a cap around 200 million but magically you think they will get the hires right for a 7-10 billion project right out the gate. Imagine thinking investors that have seen the McCaskey's fuck up hiring people to run their NFL team for like 40 years are going to trust them to find the right people for a project that is like 25-40 times bigger in scope. You are delusional.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

If they had all the funding for it they wouldn't be begging AH for tax breaks. And yes they would have a problem as they have no actual experience here. Again there is a reason Warren pivoted to the Lakefront.

Again you are being dense. They have spent the last 40 years hiring the wrong people to run a football team with a cap around 200 million but magically you think they will get the hires right for a 7-10 billion project right out the gate. Imagine thinking investors that have seen the McCaskey's fuck up hiring people to run their NFL team for like 40 years are going to trust them to find the right people for a project that is like 25-40 times bigger in scope. You are delusional.

Have you never heard of negotiating or posturing? You seriously think the Bears shouldn’t or wouldn’t try and get the very best possible deal out of AH? Why would they not nickel and dime them. Especially when they can play AH and Chicago off of each other.

And I’m not being dense at all. I already said it’s not my money. Just like any other business venture, and here’s the shocker, you do have to hire the right people. If they fuck it up for themselves won’t be any skin off my back. It’s not like they will fuck this up worse than the Park District did Soldier Field. You’re just missing the forest for the trees because you think they’ll fuck it up.

Guess they shouldn’t draft Caleb because they could fuck that up too.

 

[Toast88]

Lol, yeah, the Bears want a new Chicago stadium they can’t even own or leverage extra revenue on top of, instead of having their own place with plenty of space in Arlington Heights that they can just keep building alongside, reaping new revenue all along the way.

Think Chinatown. This is about land. This is about money. This is about Bearstown. That ain’t happening on the Lakefront.

 

[remydat]

Lol, yeah, the Bears want a new Chicago stadium they can’t even own or leverage extra revenue on top of, instead of having their own place with plenty of space in Arlington Heights that they can just keep building alongside, reaping new revenue all along the way.

Think Chinatown. This is about land. This is about money. This is about Bearstown. That ain’t happening on the Lakefront.

NFL stadiums host on average 8.5 events a year outside of football. So that is 350 days or so where they are unused.

The majority of NFL teams don't own their stadiums for a reason. The majority of studies regarding publicly owned stadiums show they are not beneficial to the city.

Part of the issue with an NFL stadium is the fact they are typically too big to host anything but mega events which don't happen with enough frequency to justify their use. Hence why basketball stadium tend to host more events as they can host smaller events.

 

[Toast88]

No offense, but some of you guys would be so lost in the business world.

“Warren said he’d like shovels in the ground on the lakefront, so it definitely seems legit.”

Lol, wut? That literally exactly what he’d also say if he was trying to squeeze Arlington Heights. Create desperation, create leverage.

 

[Toast88]

NFL stadiums host on average 8.5 events a year outside of football. So that is 350 days or so where they are unused.

The majority of NFL teams don't own their stadiums for a reason. The majority of studies regarding publicly owned stadiums show they are not beneficial to the city.

Part of the issue with an NFL stadium is the fact they ate typically too big to host anything but mega events which don't happen with enough frequency to justify their use.

People who own franchises and build billion-dollar entertainment venues don’t think like that, especially if they’re wanting an entertainment district around it.

 

[KittiesKorner]

No offense, but some of you guys would be so lost in the business world.

“Warren said he’d like shovels in the ground on the lakefront, so it definitely seems legit.”

Lol, wut? That literally exactly what he’d also say if he was trying to squeeze Arlington Heights. Create desperation, create leverage.

As you are a savvy business guy, explain to me like I'm 5 how the hotel tax until 2033 will work

 

[Toast88]

As you are a savvy business guy, explain to me like I'm 5 how the hotel tax until 2033 will work

Like you’re 5?

“Sit this one out, junior. Mommy and daddy know best.”

-Kevin Warren to George McCaskey

 

[remydat]

Have you never heard of negotiating or posturing? You seriously think the Bears shouldn’t or wouldn’t try and get the very best possible deal out of AH? Why would they not nickel and dime them. Especially when they can play AH and Chicago off of each other.

And I’m not being dense at all. I already said it’s not my money. Just like any other business venture, and here’s the shocker, you do have to hire the right people. If they fuck it up for themselves won’t be any skin off my back. It’s not like they will fuck this up worse than the Park District did Soldier Field. You’re just missing the forest for the trees because you think they’ll fuck it up.

Guess they shouldn’t draft Caleb because they could fuck that up too.

No I seriously think Warren came in and said AH makes no sense and is trying to leverage them to get a better deal in Chicago. AH was not his idea. It was Ted Philips.

And yes they can fuck it up worse than the PD did Soldier Field because there is more money on the line. If they fuck up AH they likely have to sell the team as they would likely be in a fuck ton of debt. The Chicago stadium would have the risk shared more with the city and would cost less so less likely to ruin them if something goes wrong.

 

[KittiesKorner]

Like you’re 5?

“Sit this one out, junior. Mommy and daddy know best.”

-Kevin Warren to George McCaskey

thanks, dick.

Hotel tax revenues fall $29M short; Chicago taxpayers could be on the hook to make up difference on Soldier Field bonds

Last year, the Illinois Sports Facilities Authority dipped into its reserves — refinance $21.4 million in Soldier Field debt — to spare Chicago taxpayers from having to cover the hotel tax shortfall.

chicago.suntimes.com

 

[Toast88]

It’s funny how many people think this is about building concrete and plastic seats around a football field, lol

 

[remydat]

People who own franchises and build billion-dollar entertainment venues don’t think like that, especially if they’re wanting an entertainment district around it.

People who own franchises and build billionaire dollar entertainment venues have decades of experience in real estate development and more often than not didn't inherit their money and aren't largely incompetent like the McCaskeys. These are the people that own their stadiums and or built billion dollar entertainment venues.

Kroenke - background in real estate development.

Ross - background in real estate development

Tepper - Background in Asset Management which includes a real estate portfolio.

Kraft - Background in construction and real estate development

Josh Harris - Background in private equity and corporate finance which includes real estate portfolio.

By contrast George McCaskey would be a mediocre attorney barely earning a living if he didn't inherit the Bears.

 

[KittiesKorner]

You're talking to a biznessman bro

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

No I seriously think Warren came in and said AH makes no sense and is trying to leverage them to get a better deal in Chicago. AH was not his idea. It was Ted Philips.

And yes they can fuck it up worse than the PD did Soldier Field because there is more money on the line. If they fuck up AH they likely have to sell the team as they would likely be in a fuck ton of debt. The Chicago stadium would have the risk shared more with the city and would cost less so less likely to ruin them if something goes wrong.

Even if Warren is against AH he’s still going to negotiate against Chicago with AH. You’re not making any sense. It doesn’t matter who’s plan it was.

And if they’re forced to sell the team that’d be fine with me too.

 

[Toast88]

People who own franchises and build billionaire dollar entertainment venues have decades of experience in real estate development and more often than not didn't inherit their money and aren't largely incompetent like the McCaskeys. These are the people that own their stadiums and or built billion dollar entertainment venues.

Kroenke - background in real estate development.

Ross - background in real estate development

Tepper - Background in Asset Management which includes a real estate portfolio.

Kraft - Background in construction and real estate development

Josh Harris - Background in private equity and corporate finance which includes real estate portfolio.

By contrast George McCaskey would be a mediocre attorney barely earning a living if he didn't inherit the Bears.

No doubt, but McCaskey’s not the only one driving this vehicle, and Minnesota’s stadium came in under budget and is a fantastic venue.

BTW, Kronke’s project cost $5 billion out of pocket without any public financing. Someone could easily look at that and say, “Why create something so extravagant with so little short-term return?” These are big plans with big timelines.

 

[remydat]

Even if Warren is against AH he’s still going to negotiate against Chicago with AH. You’re not making any sense. It doesn’t matter who’s plan it was.

And if they’re forced to sell the team that’d be fine with me too.

Yeah not what I am arguing. The point is AH doesn't make sense for the Bears. It is far more expensive for an ownership group you admitted was cash poor and who have little to no real estate experience.

And yes you are fine with them selling the team but the point is AH is riskier for the McCaskey's and it isn't good business for them to risk their ownership over it.

 

[remydat]

No doubt, but McCaskey’s not the only one driving this vehicle, and Minnesota’s stadium came in under budget and is a fantastic venue.

BTW, Kronke’s project cost $5 billion out of pocket without any public financing. Someone could easily look at that and say, “Why create something so extravagant with so little short-term return?” These are big plans with big timelines.

Warren has no experience building anything other than a stadium. Also it was not under budget. Budget was 975m and came in at 1.06b. Certainly not way over budget but also a far cry from a 5 billion campus that has far more moving parts and thus more likely to go over budget.

Kroenke again had 30 years in real estate development before he built Sofi and is married to a Walmart heiress ie he easily had the money and experience as his net worth is around 13b and his wife's is about 9b. The McCaskeys lack both.

It is far different building a 5 billion complex when you and your wife are with 22 billion vs building a 5 billion complex when your net worth is around 2b and is almost exclusively tied to the NFL team you own.

 

[Toast88]

Warren has no experience building anything other than a stadium. Also it was not under budget. Budget was 975m and came in at 1.06b. Certainly not way over budget but also a far cry from a 5 billion campus that has far more moving parts and thus more likely to go over budget.

Kroenke again had 30 years in real estate development before he built Sofi and is married to a Walmart heiress ie he easily had the money and experience as his net worth is around 13b and his wife's is about 9b. The McCaskeys lack both.

Ok, the McCaskeys suck as business people, and other owners are better. What’s your point?