BA's and BP's top 50 midseason lists

[beckdawg]

Hey guys.. instead of banging your heads trying to figure out where these kids are gonna play or should play.
wait til they actually come up and make the 25 man roster and then we will see where they play them..

Just stating my opinion and backing it up with logic when questioned about it.

 

[theberserkfury]

LOL. If he doesn't like 3B, how well do you think a player's D is going to be at the corner?

You think that he's gonna try to tank at 3rd? That seems incredibly unlikely to me.

And all we're going off here is that apparently he said he prefers 2nd to 3rd... not exactly him categorically saying he won't play 3rd.

 

[chibears55]

Well, that's not very sporting then, is it?

No.. but why spend the next 8-9 mos guessing what gonna happen ? Think about it, we probably have gone through every possible scenario for those 3 in Alcantara Baez and Bryant and we still go round n round where theyll end up lol

 

[beckdawg]

No.. but why spend the next 8-9 mos guessing what gonna happen ? Think about it, we probably have gone through every possible scenario for those 3 in Alcantara Baez and Bryant and we still go round n round where theyll end up lol

Might not be that long if Alcantara is called up.... just sayiin'

 

[chibears55]

Just stating my opinion and backing it up with logic when questioned about it.

Not saying anyone opinion wrong and everyone has good reasonings...

Its just like I said we probably have hit on all case scenerios on where they would/should play over the last few months and probably will just be doing the same over the next 8-9 months til they actually come up..

If they were coming up this yr. I could see the round table over this now.. but were most likely not gonna see them til next season so this debate could be put on hold til ST...

 

[Parade_Rain]

You think that he's gonna try to tank at 3rd? That seems incredibly unlikely to me.

And all we're going off here is that apparently he said he prefers 2nd to 3rd... not exactly him categorically saying he won't play 3rd.

Tank? That's not what I said, so brilliant beckdawg created a massive strawman and you went right along with it.

 

[chibears55]

Might not be that long if Alcantara is called up.... just sayiin'

If Alcantara is the only one who comes up, he going right to 2B for this season at least..

They will sit or dump barney before any of the OFers, the only chance he sees CF is if they move bonifacio, coghlin, lake, and sweeney and I definitely dont see them moving or dumping lake coghlin or sweeney

 

[theberserkfury]

Tank? That's not what I said, so brilliant beckdawg created a massive strawman and you went right along with it.

What was your point then? That he won't try his hardest?

And either way, unless you have something conclusive/definitive saying that Baez doesn't want to play 3rd (as opposed to just stating a simple preference), this whole topic is meaningless.

 

[CSF77]

I'm thinking they are trying to gear him up to replace Bonifacio's roll. 2B platoon hitting LH. CF hitting RH. Sweeney CF/Barney 2B.

Bonifacio is a FA this year so it makes sense. this would be a temporary situation.

The question is if they want to start Bryant and Baez's arb clocks this year. I believe if it doesn't count on time played this year then they should do it.

Regardless I could see Lake LF, Alcantara CF, ? RF

Bryant 3B, Castro SS, Baez 2B, Rizzo 1B

Soler and Russell in AAA opening day.

That opens a OF spot for a vet bat.

Cuddyer on a rental makes sense then.

 

[CSF77]

Actually I wouldn't mind renting Cuddyer and having Manny play LF for the year. Let Sweeney and Lake sub for him late inning. Having 2 vet bats to mold the core makes sense.

 

[beckdawg]

Not saying anyone opinion wrong and everyone has good reasonings...

Its just like I said we probably have hit on all case scenerios on where they would/should play over the last few months and probably will just be doing the same over the next 8-9 months til they actually come up..

If they were coming up this yr. I could see the round table over this now.. but were most likely not gonna see them til next season so this debate could be put on hold til ST...

Well like I said, I was just defending my statement that I thought Baez made the most sense at 3B. Someone don't remember who questioned it saying something about people playing positions they never have...etc.

Also as an aside, can I just say the idea of moving Alcantara for Baez bothers me at the moment. Baez is hitting .241/.309/.456 with 14 homers and 15 SBs as a 21 year old. Alcantara basically a year older is hitting .308/.354/.538 with 10 homers and 21 steals. We're talking about moving Alcantara because Baez has greater "potential." That bothers me on two levels because 1) Alcantara is out performing Baez in AAA flat out and until that changes why is Alcantara moving? And 2) it feels like people think Alcantara is Lake which is to say a 4th outfield/super utility player. He's roughly on pace for 20 HRs and 40 SB. Do you know how many people did that last year in the majors? The only players with 20 HR and more than 25 SB were Alex Rios(18 HR but close enough), Carlos Gomez, Mike Trout, Jason Kipnis(17 HR), and Andrew McCutchen. Trout was #2 in MVP voting, Kipnis was #11, McCutchen won NL MVP, Gomez was #9 in voting. Rios was once viewed in the way people hope Buxton will be but inconsistency has plagued him in his career.

So, you're not just talking about some decent player. Obviously Alcantara doesn't have Baez's power potential but he also doesn't have Baez's K rate issues(22.7%/21.9% in AAA/AA vs 31.8%/28.8% for Baez). And if there is anything that has killed more promising careers it's K's. Brett Jackson looked like a top prospect in the minors in 2011 when he had a k rate of 24.9% in AA and 29.8% in AAA. Ultimately it is one of the major factors keep him from success. As such, you could make the argument that Alcantara may end up being a better player.

After having said that I'll drop the conversation. It just bugs me because it feels like people are overlooking Alcantara. He's got a really good shot at being an All-Star 2B. Maybe he can be that at CF and if he is, that's absolutely great because CF is harder to fill than 2B. But if we're saying he has to move because Baez is a better "potential" hitter that bugs me.

 

[CSF77]

Looks like a prediction I had yesterday come true. I was wondering who would back fill Iowa in the rotation. Rhee is pitching now. He has had a long road post surgery. Good for him

 

[CSF77]

Baez had a bad start this year and is finally adjusting. Still you can not discount 37 HR's last year and the fact he is on fire now.

They both deserve playing time. But we are talking top 10 vs top 100 talent. They will defer to Baez with all things being equal.

Add to it now you have to concider Russell. Another MI in the top 10 rankings. That makes Alcantara the 3rd best MI in the system with out even considering that your SS is a all star.

 

[CSF77]

Anyways Alcantara is again starting in CF. They are preping him for promotion.

I think they are going to still hold back on Baez though as he are not making adjustments with him

 

[beckdawg]

But we are talking top 10 vs top 100 talent.

Ironic this comment is in this thread. If you believe baseball prospectus you're talking about the #5 talent vs the #18 talent. Even if you want to use BA who's more conservative, it's #7 vs #33. Again, I think people are overlooking Alcantara because he was in the 80's+ preseason and Alcantara likely would be higher if he had played a premium position to start with SS(moved off obviously)/CF. If you compare Russell's and Alcantara's numbers they are relatively similar albeit Russell doing it as a 19 year old. Same case with Joc Pederson and they are the same age.

 

[chibears55]

Just think if olt could just hit .260 - .270 with the power he has and solid glove.. damn would they have an awesome situation next season with all the big bats on the infield

 

[Parade_Rain]

What was your point then? That he won't try his hardest?

I take it that you are one of rarest of breeds who perform their best when you are uncomfortable. That isn't about effort or unwillingness. From a management perspective I'd rather put players in the best position to succeed. He's been MIF/CF, so it's clear that while 3B is an option, it isn't as likely as MIF.

And either way, unless you have something conclusive/definitive saying that Baez doesn't want to play 3rd (as opposed to just stating a simple preference), this whole topic is meaningless.

Yeah. It's meaningless when one creates a strawman and beats it like a dead horse.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Ironic this comment is in this thread. If you believe baseball prospectus you're talking about the #5 talent vs the #18 talent. Even if you want to use BA who's more conservative, it's #7 vs #33. Again, I think people are overlooking Alcantara because he was in the 80's+ preseason and Alcantara likely would be higher if he had played a premium position to start with SS(moved off obviously)/CF. If you compare Russell's and Alcantara's numbers they are relatively similar albeit Russell doing it as a 19 year old. Same case with Joc Pederson and they are the same age.

One of the reasons I follow this board are the conversations you and others (CSF77/Dabynsky, etc) about some of these players. I am very interested in seeing what Alcantara can do.

 

[beckdawg]

One of the reasons I follow this board are the conversations you and others (CSF77/Dabynsky, etc) about some of these players. I am very interested in seeing what Alcantara can do.

Nice to hear

 

[theberserkfury]

I take it that you are one of rarest of breeds who perform their best when you are uncomfortable. That isn't about effort or unwillingness. From a management perspective I'd rather put players in the best position to succeed. He's been MIF/CF, so it's clear that while 3B is an option, it isn't as likely as MIF.

Yeah. It's meaningless when one creates a strawman and beats it like a dead horse.

I'm not saying comfort doesn't have an impact on performance... but what exactly are you basing this comment off of: "LOL. If he doesn't like 3B, how well do you think a player's D is going to be at the corner?" The implication is that his D won't be good/great, right? I don't think his possible stated preference of playing 2B is nearly enough to laugh at the notion of him being a decent defender at 3rd.

As for the "dead horse" remark, I really have no idea what you're trying to refer to. You're the one forming strong opinions on his willingness/ability/comfort to play 3rd based on a random not-even-quote from CFS...

But yeah, you're right. This is not worth discussing anymore.