BD Extended?!?!

[knoxville7]

Are we really going to pin Lauri playing good for 20 games as a failure by AKME like we all didn't think Lauri was just going to be meh ourselves? What did Lauri show in the last 3 years that demonstrated any of this? Unless we want to say that based on his 2nd year alone he should've been given all the benefit of the doubt.

Be careful, certain posters will come at you for such commentary!

 

[Enasic]

Are we really going to pin Lauri playing good for 20 games as a failure by AKME like we all didn't think Lauri was just going to be meh ourselves? What did Lauri show in the last 3 years that demonstrated any of this? Unless we want to say that based on his 2nd year alone he should've been given all the benefit of the doubt.

A failure on AKME? Meh…they’ve had worse…but right now it definitely looks the wrong move. Doesn’t matter what fans thought at the time.

Fans loved the Vuc trade at the time too. That’s looking like a massive turd of a trade though. Do you think ownership will not count that as a fail because fans thought it was a good move at the time? I sure hope not.

 

[Enasic]

Be careful, certain posters will come at you for such commentary!

You are 100% correct. There are certain posters on here that will come after people for some dumb shit. Could not agree more with you

 

[Chicago4Life]

Are we really going to pin Lauri playing good for 20 games as a failure by AKME like we all didn't think Lauri was just going to be meh ourselves? What did Lauri show in the last 3 years that demonstrated any of this? Unless we want to say that based on his 2nd year alone he should've been given all the benefit of the doubt.

if it was just lauri thats one thing but theres a nice little trend of poor player development. I admit lauri was underwhelming to me as well but akme, bd, staff, they are the ones to work on development, scheme adjustments to help players thrive...WCJ seems to also benefit from a change in scenery, coincidence? Pwill is playing like a pedestrian...not a good trend for AKME or BD and his staff....maybe ayo turns into a stud or terry but so far under this regime youth development has looked piss poor...

 

[Enasic]

if it was just lauri thats one thing but theres a nice little trend of poor player development. I admit lauri was underwhelming to me as well but akme, bd, staff, they are the ones to work on development, scheme adjustments to help players thrive...WCJ seems to also benefit from a change in scenery, coincidence? Pwill is playing like a pedestrian...not a good trend for AKME or BD and his staff....maybe ayo turns into a stud or terry but so far under this regime youth development has looked piss poor...

If people don’t want to include the Lauri situation as a mistake, I think that’s fair. It sure looks like a mistake now, but whatever.

That said, pretty much everything else I mentioned was not only a mistake, but a big mistake. AK hasn’t remotely earned the benefit of the doubt

 

[clonetrooper264]

A failure on AKME? Meh…they’ve had worse…but right now it definitely looks the wrong move. Doesn’t matter what fans thought at the time.

Fans loved the Vuc trade at the time too. That’s looking like a massive turd of a trade though. Do you think ownership will not count that as a fail because fans thought it was a good move at the time? I sure hope not.

I'm not even talking about fan perception, though this is a forum, everything is fan perception.

Trading Lauri being a good or bad move must take into the account the context of the trade at the time it was made. At the time, Lauri didn't look like anything special (sorry fan perception sneaking in here) and certainly not like he was going to average 22 a game on 50+% FG shooting. That trade just looks worse because Lauri is having a career year. But remember, this is his 3rd team and 6th year in the league. By the numbers he did not look like he was gonna blow up and it is a documented fact that he was not in a good place mentally by the end of his tenure in Chicago. We got a 1st back, far from the worst move AK has done. Actually, considering the colossal failure of everything it might be the best move he made.

The Vuc trade on the other hand, bad move, but again it's because it was a risk that didn't pay off while the assets traded away turned out to be great for Orlando. Not a great trade, but again exacerbated by hindsight.

 

[Enasic]

I'm not even talking about fan perception, though this is a forum, everything is fan perception.

Trading Lauri being a good or bad move must take into the account the context of the trade at the time it was made. At the time, Lauri didn't look like anything special (sorry fan perception sneaking in here) and certainly not like he was going to average 22 a game on 50+% FG shooting. That trade just looks worse because Lauri is having a career year. But remember, this is his 3rd team and 6th year in the league. By the numbers he did not look like he was gonna blow up and it is a documented fact that he was not in a good place mentally by the end of his tenure in Chicago. We got a 1st back, far from the worst move AK has done. Actually, considering the colossal failure of everything it might be the best move he made.

The Vuc trade on the other hand, bad move, but again it's because it was a risk that didn't pay off while the assets traded away turned out to be great for Orlando. Not a great trade, but again exacerbated by hindsight.

I forgot about the 1st for Lauri, honestly. When do the Bulls get that?

 

[clonetrooper264]

I forgot about the 1st for Lauri, honestly. When do the Bulls get that?

It's the Portland 1st, so whenever they make the playoffs before 2028.

And just for a not forum fan's perspective on that trade, here's an article from back then: Bulls make out like bandits in Markkanen sign-and-trade

 

[clonetrooper264]

Be careful, certain posters will come at you for such commentary!

I want the smoke

 

[Enasic]

It's the Portland 1st, so whenever they make the playoffs before 2028.

And just for a not forum fan's perspective on that trade, here's an article from back then: Bulls make out like bandits in Markkanen sign-and-trade

Go Portland

 

[SilenceS]

I'm not even talking about fan perception, though this is a forum, everything is fan perception.

Trading Lauri being a good or bad move must take into the account the context of the trade at the time it was made. At the time, Lauri didn't look like anything special (sorry fan perception sneaking in here) and certainly not like he was going to average 22 a game on 50+% FG shooting. That trade just looks worse because Lauri is having a career year. But remember, this is his 3rd team and 6th year in the league. By the numbers he did not look like he was gonna blow up and it is a documented fact that he was not in a good place mentally by the end of his tenure in Chicago. We got a 1st back, far from the worst move AK has done. Actually, considering the colossal failure of everything it might be the best move he made.

The Vuc trade on the other hand, bad move, but again it's because it was a risk that didn't pay off while the assets traded away turned out to be great for Orlando. Not a great trade, but again exacerbated by hindsight.

I kind of compare this to Cubs when Theo took over. He just wiped out all old regime players just to have his players and his slate. It made for some bad moves but they had a vision and it worked out. So, I can get the thought of building the team with his picks and players he acquired. It just seems like it was a be competitive now and not worry about the future type.

I never got the Vuc trade. I put him on the level of Valanciunas. Good player, but shouldnt be your third option. They will have games where they are great and games where they just are meh.

Wendell Carter always had the potential to grow. Lauri needed a change of scenery. I dont think he ever thought Derozan would be this good, but he also probably thought of Lavine as the star, but he has just kind of sat dormant with little growth.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I kind of compare this to Cubs when Theo took over. He just wiped out all old regime players just to have his players and his slate. It made for some bad moves but they had a vision and it worked out. So, I can get the thought of building the team with his picks and players he acquired. It just seems like it was a be competitive now and not worry about the future type.

I never got the Vuc trade. I put him on the level of Valanciunas. Good player, but shouldnt be your third option. They will have games where they are great and games where they just are meh.

Wendell Carter always had the potential to grow. Lauri needed a change of scenery. I dont think he ever thought Derozan would be this good, but he also probably thought of Lavine as the star, but he has just kind of sat dormant with little growth.

Only thing with that comparison is that so far AK's moves have all just been bad. Wiping out previous regime's players I get. AK clearly had a vision for a type of team and he built it quick and for about 3 months it looked amazing. Then the wheels fell off and unlike the Cubs, there's no hope in the farm.

 

[clonetrooper264]

if it was just lauri thats one thing but theres a nice little trend of poor player development. I admit lauri was underwhelming to me as well but akme, bd, staff, they are the ones to work on development, scheme adjustments to help players thrive...WCJ seems to also benefit from a change in scenery, coincidence? Pwill is playing like a pedestrian...not a good trend for AKME or BD and his staff....maybe ayo turns into a stud or terry but so far under this regime youth development has looked piss poor...

Technically, only PWill has truly been under the AK/BD player development umbrella. Lauri was mostly under GarPax and Jim Boylen, same with WCJ. They only played a year under the new regime (less for WCJ as he got traded). For what it's worth, both Lauri and WCJ played about the same statistically per 36 minutes with BD vs their new teams one year removed from BD. Lauri actually improved in terms of efficiency under BD. WCJ obviously then took a leap over time with a bigger role in Orlando, but he wasn't significantly worse under BD.

PWill obviously hasn't been amazing, though of late he has been better. He also missed basically a whole season's worth of growth, but I get that fans don't care about that. Who knows how much of that is BD vs PWill himself. Only time will tell with that one. Ayo has generally looked fine to me, he's just not the type of player that's going to blow anyone's minds so again not sure how much you can blame BD on that front.

 

[SilenceS]

Only thing with that comparison is that so far AK's moves have all just been bad. Wiping out previous regime's players I get. AK clearly had a vision for a type of team and he built it quick and for about 3 months it looked amazing. Then the wheels fell off and unlike the Cubs, there's no hope in the farm.

Oh i get it, I was talking about wiping it out. He did it, but I think it was just such short term thinking cause I do think like Scoot. To win a ship, you have to have, at least, a top 5 player and two all star level players behind him. I dont see how the Bulls were ever going to get there unless Lavine exploded. Lavine at his absolute best couldnt be a top 5.

 

[Enasic]

I kind of compare this to Cubs when Theo took over. He just wiped out all old regime players just to have his players and his slate. It made for some bad moves but they had a vision and it worked out. So, I can get the thought of building the team with his picks and players he acquired. It just seems like it was a be competitive now and not worry about the future type.

I never got the Vuc trade. I put him on the level of Valanciunas. Good player, but shouldnt be your third option. They will have games where they are great and games where they just are meh.

Wendell Carter always had the potential to grow. Lauri needed a change of scenery. I dont think he ever thought Derozan would be this good, but he also probably thought of Lavine as the star, but he has just kind of sat dormant with little growth.

LaVine is sorely lacking any basketball IQ. He’s a bad decision maker and his defensive awareness while somewhat improved, still isn’t good. AK shot his shot with LaVine/DeMar/Vuc and missed badly. Hopefully he starts to correct course sooner than later and he could fix it, but the cupboard is pretty bare overall with lack of picks and cap space. Don’t think he has the balls to blow it up and will probably cling to hope that the Bulls can make the playoffs as a low seed

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Oh i get it, I was talking about wiping it out. He did it, but I think it was just such short term thinking cause I do think like Scoot. To win a ship, you have to have, at least, a top 5 player and two all star level players behind him. I dont see how the Bulls were ever going to get there unless Lavine exploded. Lavine at his absolute best couldnt be a top 5.

Because the goal was never winning championships. Just get to the playoffs and that’s it.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Oh i get it, I was talking about wiping it out. He did it, but I think it was just such short term thinking cause I do think like Scoot. To win a ship, you have to have, at least, a top 5 player and two all star level players behind him. I dont see how the Bulls were ever going to get there unless Lavine exploded. Lavine at his absolute best couldnt be a top 5.

Yeah for sure, I'm the same way. My thought is AK was going for maybe something like a reverse 2004 Pistons where they're super good on offense and have a passable defense. Ironically the offense has ended up terrible and the defense has been better at times. Still not great on defense though, they hemorrhage corner 3s like no other

 

[clonetrooper264]

Because the goal was never winning championships. Just get to the playoffs and that’s it.

This is probably the truest of all. Playoff teams are good enough to line the Reinsdorf pocketbooks

 

[Enasic]

Because the goal was never winning championships. Just get to the playoffs and that’s it.

I think there were two goals:

1. Get to the playoffs and be a perennial playoff team

2. Change the perception of the FO to more of a player friendly environment

They accomplished #2 I believe, although not sure how much it will make a difference. As it stands right now, they’re not a playoff team but if they get their shit together might pull off a 7-8 seed

 

[knoxville7]

I'm not even talking about fan perception, though this is a forum, everything is fan perception.

Trading Lauri being a good or bad move must take into the account the context of the trade at the time it was made. At the time, Lauri didn't look like anything special (sorry fan perception sneaking in here) and certainly not like he was going to average 22 a game on 50+% FG shooting. That trade just looks worse because Lauri is having a career year. But remember, this is his 3rd team and 6th year in the league. By the numbers he did not look like he was gonna blow up and it is a documented fact that he was not in a good place mentally by the end of his tenure in Chicago. We got a 1st back, far from the worst move AK has done. Actually, considering the colossal failure of everything it might be the best move he made.

The Vuc trade on the other hand, bad move, but again it's because it was a risk that didn't pay off while the assets traded away turned out to be great for Orlando. Not a great trade, but again exacerbated by hindsight.

@Enasic ???