Bears trade for QB Nick Foles

[dbldrew]

Agreed that Jags may wait. Disagree Pace needed to do something now. He could wait too as I doubt there will be any training camps or OTAs right now with the coronavirus. And after the draft they may be even less options so that is still a gamble.



He is not a Colt right now because FA hasn't even officially started so there was no need for Jags to rush this. But the longer FA goes without a deal and if no other suitors materialize they then may realize they overplayed their hand. Teams play hardball early in FA. Gets tougher to do that as time passes.

Pace rushed it because he is trying to save his job and didn't want to risk losing out. That is the difference between being desperate and not being desperate. Just as again signing Graham on day 1 of FA is pure desperation. Teams with good GMs and not in fear of their jobs sign big names early and otherwise wait out the market. Pace couldn't do that because he is both an average to bad GM and desperate.

Pats don't have a QB. You see BB sweating it? No because he has job security and is a good GM when it comes to FA. Ravens GM stays ripping people off to the point I would lose his number if I were a rival GM. The good guys aren't desperate.

so your saying the Jags rejected the deal and would only make the trade for a 4th..
again thats not bidding against yourself thats offering up a deal for what the "selling" party is willing to sell at.

Could pace have waited and got him for less? sure there is always that possibility that if pace stuck firm on offering up a 5th and no other team offered up a better option then the Jags could of dropped there "selling price" and accepted the 5th later on. Or another team could of taken him instead. and you would be here bitching that Pace is the worst GM for sitting and doing nothing while other teams are making deals..

Or if enough teams didnt get there guy in the draft Foles ends up going for more then a 4th if teams get in a bidding war. Who knows.

The fact of the matter is because the lack of possible OTA and training camps we needed a QB that would be able to push Mitch right away and maybe take over right away. Getting a guy that has never played in this system would not do either of those things.

 

[remydat]

No I am saying they rejected the Colts offer because it was early and they knew they had a desperate GM in Pace. He would have appeared less desperate if he had waited and the price possibly comes down.

Pace is who GMs and agents go to when they want someone to overpay.

 

[dbldrew]

No I am saying they rejected the Colts offer because it was early and they knew they had a desperate GM in Pace. He would have appeared less desperate if he had waited and the price possibly comes down.

Pace is who GMs and agents go to when they want someone to overpay.

non of this has to do with you saying that Pace bid against himself. If pace outbid the colts thats not bidding against himself, If pace payed the "asking price" from the jags, thats not him bidding against himself.

You saying that Pace was desperate is a completely different issue.. Yes he was desperate and his huge mistake in drafting Mitch has caused us to be in this situation. But that has nothing to do with "bidding against himself"

 

[remydat]

non of this has to do with you saying that Pace bid against himself. If pace outbid the colts thats not bidding against himself, If pace payed the "asking price" from the jags, thats not him bidding against himself.

You saying that Pace was desperate is a completely different issue.. Yes he was desperate and his huge mistake in drafting Mitch has caused us to be in this situation. But that has nothing to do with "bidding against himself"

Pace didn't outbid the Colts because the Colts already had their QB by the time Pace secured the trade. It would be outbidding the Colts if Colts were still in it. Pace paying the asking price is also outbidding himself if no one else was willing to pay it. If it is revealed someone else was willing to pay it then it is not an overpay. If it turns out, he was the only bidder then yes he outbid himself.

Mind you, in the end it is what it is. Better to have Foles than rely solely on Trubs. However, calling a spade a spade. The man is not a good negotiator. I can't really think of any deal he has done where at the time I thought he got the better of the other party. Certainly been deals that in hindsight were great for us but not where at the time I said to my self boy Pace got a steal or hoodwinked another GM. Now maybe I am forgetting one so feel free to let me know.

What I will give him credit for is he has been good when he lets the deal come to him like with Sitton, Mack and letting Fuller test the market on the transition tag.

 

[Bearly]

Agreed that Jags may wait. Disagree Pace needed to do something now. He could wait too as I doubt there will be any training camps or OTAs right now with the coronavirus. And after the draft they may be even less options so that is still a gamble.

Options are and will continue to dwindle and he may also be doing his get your (apparent) starter before the draft routine to prevent getting jumped for what would have been an obvious need.

 

[remydat]

Options are and will continue to dwindle and he may also be doing his get your (apparent) starter before the draft routine to prevent getting jumped for what would have been an obvious need.

I am sure in his head he thinks he is being smart. Limited evidence that has been the case. At this point I would prefer he get jumped as when he tries to outsmart people it seems to end up as a fail.

Again I am just done assuming he has a plan that actually works. The proof is in the results and they have sucked more often than not. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt then I have no problem with that. I just am not going to do it.

 

[dbldrew]

Pace didn't outbid the Colts because the Colts already had their QB by the time Pace secured the trade. It would be outbidding the Colts if Colts were still in it. Pace paying the asking price is also outbidding himself if no one else was willing to pay it. If it is revealed someone else was willing to pay it then it is not an overpay. If it turns out, he was the only bidder then yes he outbid himself.

Mind you, in the end it is what it is. Better to have Foles than rely solely on Trubs. However, calling a spade a spade. The man is not a good negotiator. I can't really think of any deal he has done where at the time I thought he got the better of the other party. Certainly been deals that in hindsight were great for us but not where at the time I said to my self boy Pace got a steal or hoodwinked another GM. Now maybe I am forgetting one so feel free to let me know.

What I will give him credit for is he has been good when he lets the deal come to him like with Sitton, Mack and letting Fuller test the market on the transition tag.

again you saying that Pace outbid himself is false.

If pace offered up a 5th and like a 7th and then panicked and upped it to a 4th then that would be an example of him bidding against himself. Thats not what happened, thats not what pace did.

A 5th was offered and it took a 4th to make the trade, so either a 5th wasnt enough, or pace outbid the Colts and the deal was not finalized until after the Colts signed Rivers. This happens in every freaking sport with trades. There is nothing odd about how this went down. The only thing odd is how you're hell bent on pushing a false narrative that pace was bidding against himself.

You want to say that pace was desperate? sure i agree he was
You want to say that he over-payed? ok maybe the case can be made that Foles is not worth a 4th, but time will tell if that is the case or not.
But if you want to say that pace was bidding against himself is just making yourself look stupid

 

[remydat]

The 5th was not on the table at the time Pace finalized the deal. If you have any evidence it was then present it. Otherwise once again you are free to speculate however you see fit and I am free to speculate however I see fit.

If you agree Pace was desperate it is quite logical for me to presume a desperate GM bid against himself because he wanted a deal done quickly. You are free to speculate he didn't. To each his/her own until more details come out.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/03/af...nt-keep-letting-ryan-pace-repeat-his-mistakes

You can find any number of articles that point to Pace overpaying. Also the Colts are divisional rivals so the Jags may simply have wanted more from them because of that. You get that if we were trading with the Pack, we may ask for more than we would otherwise. There is any number of factors that can led to one believing Pace outbid himself. There are factors that can lead one to believe he didn't. Do you bro! No one is asking you to believe me.

 

[Bearly]

I am sure in his head he thinks he is being smart. Limited evidence that has been the case. At this point I would prefer he get jumped as when he tries to outsmart people it seems to end up as a fail.

Again I am just done assuming he has a plan that actually works. The proof is in the results and they have sucked more often than not. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt then I have no problem with that. I just am not going to do it.

I'd call it cautious as opposed to any thoughts of superiority.

 

[remydat]

I'd call it cautious as opposed to any thoughts of superiority.

Whatever it is, not sure it has succeeded particularly in the top half of draft as still trade up for Floyd, Trubs and Miller and they have all been failures at this point. Jackson was a homerun.

 

[Bearly]

Whatever it is, not sure it has succeeded particularly in the top half of draft as still trade up for Floyd, Trubs and Miller and they have all been failures at this point. Jackson was a homerun.

Many things today for you to poop on.

 

[dbldrew]

The 5th was not on the table at the time Pace finalized the deal.

never said it was. I said that pace could of outbid the colts and BEFORE the deal was finalized the colts moved on and signed Rivers.

If you agree Pace was desperate it is quite logical for me to presume a desperate GM bid against himself because he wanted a deal done quickly. You are free to speculate he didn't.

No its actually pretty stupid to think that.
Bidding against himself- [Pace offers the jags this years 5th and a conditional 2021 7th, before hearing back from the jags pace calls them and ups the offer to this years 5th and this years 7th. Pace again calls back the jags without hearing anything and ups the deal to a 4th] That is bidding against yourself. You are upping the bid against yourself when no one else is bidding. That is beyond stupid to think that is how it went down

You can find any number of articles that point to Pace overpaying.

completely pointless to the discussion of someone bidding against themselves.

BUT, if a bunch of teams where offering 4th-5th round picks and pace comes in and offers up a 1st round pick then that would be massively overpaying. Pace offering up a pick that was 20 places higher then the Colts is not the same thing at all. and time will tell if Foles is worth the 4th we gave up

 

[remydat]

Once the Colts signed Rivers, list the teams that were in play for Foles and what they were offering?

The only one I know of is the Bears so yes it is quite reasonable to say he was bidding against himself until such time we hear that other teams were involved. You are free to conclude he was not.

 

[anotheridiot]

Once the Colts signed Rivers, list the teams that were in play for Foles and what they were offering?

The only one I know of is the Bears so yes it is quite reasonable to say he was bidding against himself until such time we hear that other teams were involved. You are free to conclude he was not.

Bidding against himself until Bellidick got involved.

I mean, sure Bellidick believes a 6th round pick was all that the GOAT was worth, maybe that is all he would have offered the Jaguars. But I believe Pace was also bidding against New England getting involved.

Common sense tells the Jaguars to get him out of the conference so he does not come in relief with the cape on and beat you in the playoffs, but all people were really saying about Foles was he was never worth that deal.

 

[dbldrew]

Once the Colts signed Rivers, list the teams that were in play for Foles and what they were offering?

irrelevant..

Im not sure you understand what "bidding against yourself" means

If I have a signed Bears jersey that I offer up here for sale, and Bob offers me $100 for it, and then you offer me $120 for it and I tell you we have a deal. If before you pay me and i ship it out to you Bob goes on ebay and buys another Jersey, did you bid against yourself? yes or no?

Now what if Bob offers me $100 for it and I say no thats not enough, you then offer me more then what Bob offered me and up it to $120, and I say yes thats a fare deal. Did you bid against yourself? yes or no

 

[remydat]

irrelevant..

Im not sure you understand what "bidding against yourself" means

If I have a signed Bears jersey that I offer up here for sale, and Bob offers me $100 for it, and then you offer me $120 for it and I tell you we have a deal. If before you pay me and i ship it out to you Bob goes on ebay and buys another Jersey, did you bid against yourself? yes or no?

Now what if Bob offers me $100 for it and I say no thats not enough, you then offer me more then what Bob offered me and up it to $120, and I say yes thats a fare deal. Did you bid against yourself? yes or no

The analogy would be Bob offers you $100 for it, you say no and Bob buys another shirt. At that point no one else has offered you any money for the shirt and I come along and as the only current bidder, I offer you 120. In that case, I bid against myself because currently there are 0 other active bidders.

The value of something changes due to supply and demand. This is basic economics. Currently in the above scenario demand is 1 and supply is more than one because other QBs are available. The logical thing to do as the only person demanding that particularly QB is to negotiate a better price until such time that other bidders materialize or some deadline approaches.

The only way to get around this is if there were more bidders we don't know about which I prefaced my statement by saying unless they were others involved. However, if there was no one else involved then Pace bid against himself.

 

[remydat]

Bidding against himself until Bellidick got involved.

I mean, sure Bellidick believes a 6th round pick was all that the GOAT was worth, maybe that is all he would have offered the Jaguars. But I believe Pace was also bidding against New England getting involved.

Common sense tells the Jaguars to get him out of the conference so he does not come in relief with the cape on and beat you in the playoffs, but all people were really saying about Foles was he was never worth that deal.

If you uncover evidence BB was involved or any other team then I will consider it.

 

[anotheridiot]

If you uncover evidence BB was involved or any other team then I will consider it.

Not saying he was involved, YET. Brady just announced he was not going back, so the clock was ticking.

Six of one and half dozen of the other whether Bellicheck wanted more options than Winston or Dalton. They are not going with the kid right away, so its gonna be some kind of deal since all of the QB's are pretty much settled in now.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Miller has not been a disaster. He'd have great numbers with a real QB & a better playcaller.

 

[dbldrew]

The analogy would be Bob offers you $100 for it, you say no and Bob buys another shirt. At that point no one else has offered you any money for the shirt and I come along and as the only current bidder, I offer you 120. In that case, I bid against myself because currently there are 0 other active bidders.

The value of something changes due to supply and demand. This is basic economics. Currently in the above scenario demand is 1 and supply is more than one because other QBs are available. The logical thing to do as the only person demanding that particularly QB is to negotiate a better price until such time that other bidders materialize or some deadline approaches.

The only way to get around this is if there were more bidders we don't know about which I prefaced my statement by saying unless they were others involved. However, if there was no one else involved then Pace bid against himself.

that is you making an offer and I accept it or reject it. that is not you bidding against yourself. If you offered me $110 and before I reply you up the offer to $120 that is you bidding against yourself. Bidding against yourself is the act of increasing your offer over your last offer when it is the only offer or the current highest offer on the table. You did not do that, and Pace did not do that.

You arguing this is stupid.

And you trying to vortex this into trying to overpaying = bidding against yourself is not going to work. Bringing the value or supply and demand are completely irrelevant to bidding against yourself.

Did pace put in a bid and then increase the bid when his was the best bid on the table yes or no? if yes please post links to back that up

If you are going to replay with trying to vortex a definition change of what bidding against yourself means dont bother.