Belichick cries foul on Welker

[Packer Fan]

By this logic, any player that has hit players illegally can't talk about Spygate since they cheated by doing so and hence lost the right to speak on any issues regarding cheating. That's just stupid. They are two separate issues that you have just chosen to classify under the overall cheating umbrella to make a completely tenuous link between the two.

A normal penalty is not the same spygate (known and planned cheating) and intentionally taking out a player (planned dirty cheating). While these two are different types of cheating they distance themselves from normal penalties while at the same time are comparable because they both fall under planned dirty cheating.

To be clear, not accusing Welker of this, the comparison is only valid though if it is in fact true.

 

[remydat]

A normal penalty is not the same spygate (known and planned cheating) and intentionally taking out a player (planned dirty cheating). While these two are different types of cheating they distance themselves from normal penalties while at the same time are comparable because they both fall under planned dirty cheating.

To be clear, not accusing Welker of this, the comparison is only valid though if it is in fact true.

So in your world there is no distinction to be made between cheating that involves extreme harm coming to a player and cheating that involves stealing signals?

Like let's pretend that Welker did try to intentionally hurt Talib and succeeded in ending his career. In your mind, since Bellichek cheated and was punished for it, he loses the right to complain about a completely different kind of cheating that resulted in a living person being seriously hurt for the rest of his coaching career?

Sorry I think there is a difference between cheating that involves a violent act and cheating that doesn't.

 

[Packer Fan]

So in your world there is no distinction to be made between cheating that involves extreme harm coming to a player and cheating that involves stealing signals?

Like let's pretend that Welker did try to intentionally hurt Talib and succeeded in ending his career. In your mind, since Bellichek cheated and was punished for it, he loses the right to complain about a completely different kind of cheating that resulted in a living person being seriously hurt for the rest of his coaching career?

Sorry I think there is a difference between cheating that involves a violent act and cheating that doesn't.

You seem to be misunderstanding.

If your Dad teaches you to play a game. He teaches you to cheat. And then later you play your dad in that same game. And you cheat to win. Your Dad can't complain about it. He lost the right to complain about cheating (dirty play, physical or otherwise). Is your Dad going to say, "well your cheating was more severe than my cheating. I only cheated a little bit"?

Belichick lost his right to complain about dirty play, regardless of the severity of the dirty play.

And yes, Belichick was punished. And I'm pretty sure his fine will be a lot larger than Welker's (if Welker even gets one, he put his shoulder into a guy on a pick play, OMG). The NFL destroyed the evidence behind Belichick's cheating. I've seen the Welker hit 30 times.

Again, so you are not misunderstanding, I'm not saying Welker's hit (if intent to injure) wasn't wrong. I am saying Belichick lost his right to complain.

Plus really, Wes Welker? 5'-9", 185, what a bully. It's laughable.

 

[remydat]

I understand what you are saying. I am saying it makes no fucking sense. This is like saying a pickpocket has no right to complain about someone who rapes and murders someone because well crime is crime. That's fucking absurd. The severity of a crime or cheating and the violence involved is obviously important to most rational human beings.

And once again, the fact that Bellichek's claim is bullshit is not really in dispute. What is in dispute is whether a guy has a right to complain about what they perceive to be someone out to hurt their players. Your ideas that severity doesn't matter are delusional and has no basis in reality. Severity is the main fucking thing that distinguishes most of humanity that cheats on little things every day versus those people that belong in prison because their cheating is so severe and/or violent that they don't belong in normal society.

 

[RisWell]

It was a legit pick play. NFL needs to fix this.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[BearsJR]

Watched that hit about 20 times. Still don't see ANYTHING dirty about it, illegal pick, maybe...dirty? Not even close. BB needs to STFU.

 

[Packer Fan]

I understand what you are saying. I am saying it makes no fucking sense. This is like saying a pickpocket has no right to complain about someone who rapes and murders someone because well crime is crime. That's fucking absurd. The severity of a crime or cheating and the violence involved is obviously important to most rational human beings.

And once again, the fact that Bellichek's claim is bullshit is not really in dispute. What is in dispute is whether a guy has a right to complain about what they perceive to be someone out to hurt their players. Your ideas that severity doesn't matter are delusional and has no basis in reality. Severity is the main fucking thing that distinguishes most of humanity that cheats on little things every day versus those people that belong in prison because their cheating is so severe and/or violent that they don't belong in normal society.

Well since I'm not making sense and I'm being fucking absurd how about we let the NFL decide who is right on the severity of the cheating. How could we possibly measure the severity of the cheating? Perhaps by how the NFL treats the punishment monetarily?
$500,000. Do you think Welker will be fined that much for going shoulder to shoulder with another player?

And yes, to comment on your shitty example I think a person guilty of stealing would have lose credit on their opinions in other legal matters. But you have it reverse. You have the petty crime commenting on a severe crime. And based on how harshly Belichick was fined, he would be the severe criminal in this example.

 

[dabears253313]

Was it Bill Belichick's idea to let Adam Vinatieri walk? The Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl since he left.

 

[remydat]

Well since I'm not making sense and I'm being fucking absurd how about we let the NFL decide who is right on the severity of the cheating. How could we possibly measure the severity of the cheating? Perhaps by how the NFL treats the punishment monetarily?
$500,000. Do you think Welker will be fined that much for going shoulder to shoulder with another player?

And yes, to comment on your shitty example I think a person guilty of stealing would have lose credit on their opinions in other legal matters. But you have it reverse. You have the petty crime commenting on a severe crime. And based on how harshly Belichick was fined, he would be the severe criminal in this example.

Umm bounty gate (ie players paid to injure other players) was punished more severely than Spygate so the NFL already provided their answer to this. You keep bringing up Welker as if that was ever the point. Once again, the Welker thing was just Bellichek being a bitch about a guy he has issues with IMO.

The debate here is your claim that a non-violent crime or cheating precludes someone from having an opinion on violent crime or cheating. If Suh came out today and said he purposefully tries to injure QBs by hitting them illegally then he would be suspended (and loses millions in game checks) for a period of time. The only reason it doesn't happen more is because no one is stupid enough to admit it so it is easy for them to defend it as just them trying to make a play.

 

[DrGonzo]

Careful about the remyzone

You tried, but good advice is lost on some people.

 

[Silverwulf]

I don't think a coach loses the right to comment on someone allegedly deliberately trying to injure his players just because he violated rules that had nothing to do with injuring players.

Of course Bellichek is off his rocker here but the two situations are entirely different. A coach has to protect his players.

I agree with the premise, however the difference between this ...

[video=youtube;BZQU8nrtyL4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZQU8nrtyL4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZQU8nrtyL4[/video]

and this ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/denver-broncos-cornerback-dominique-rodgers-204900023.html

is not that much.

Sure it's a couple of steps later. One is close to a pick and the other is a clear block.
But considering Bill has been making a living of late teaching his little miniature receivers how to run crossing routes in the middle of the field while setting "picks" all over the place and laying out DBs with blindsided blocks ... all of which I'm sure Welker learned well from the man ... makes Bill's whining pretty hypocritical in my opinion.

 

[Guitarman]

I understand what you are saying. I am saying it makes no fucking sense. This is like saying a pickpocket has no right to complain about someone who rapes and murders someone because well crime is crime. That's fucking absurd. The severity of a crime or cheating and the violence involved is obviously important to most rational human beings.

And once again, the fact that Bellichek's claim is bullshit is not really in dispute. What is in dispute is whether a guy has a right to complain about what they perceive to be someone out to hurt their players. Your ideas that severity doesn't matter are delusional and has no basis in reality. Severity is the main fucking thing that distinguishes most of humanity that cheats on little things every day versus those people that belong in prison because their cheating is so severe and/or violent that they don't belong in normal society.

I get what Packerfan is saying. People who break the law can't complain about other people breaking the law. Crime is crime, and you are only arguing about DEGREES.

 

[Guitarman]

I understand what you are saying. I am saying it makes no fucking sense. This is like saying a pickpocket has no right to complain about someone who rapes and murders someone because well crime is crime. That's fucking absurd. The severity of a crime or cheating and the violence involved is obviously important to most rational human beings.

And once again, the fact that Bellichek's claim is bullshit is not really in dispute. What is in dispute is whether a guy has a right to complain about what they perceive to be someone out to hurt their players. Your ideas that severity doesn't matter are delusional and has no basis in reality. Severity is the main fucking thing that distinguishes most of humanity that cheats on little things every day versus those people that belong in prison because their cheating is so severe and/or violent that they don't belong in normal society.

Maybe the money the pickpocket stole was earmarked for an important medical procedure and the victim died. Unlikely, but who's to say what the consequenses of any action are?

 

[remydat]

I agree with the premise, however the difference between this ...

[video=youtube;BZQU8nrtyL4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZQU8nrtyL4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZQU8nrtyL4[/video]

and this ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/denver-broncos-cornerback-dominique-rodgers-204900023.html

is not that much.

Sure it's a couple of steps later. One is close to a pick and the other is a clear block.
But considering Bill has been making a living of late teaching his little miniature receivers how to run crossing routes in the middle of the field while setting "picks" all over the place and laying out DBs with blindsided blocks ... all of which I'm sure Welker learned well from the man ... makes Bill's whining pretty hypocritical in my opinion.

Yes but that is an entirely different argument. Packer fan is trying to claim in part that Spygate precludes Bellichek from complaining. That is what I find absurd. If you want to argue the pick play is something that all teams run then I have no problem with that argument. Hence why I said I thought Bellichek was being a bitch by crying about Welker.

I agree his complaining is stupid. I disagreed with Packer Fan's logic (Spygate) for why it was stupid.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

Oh noes .... It all starts here ....

Bring back the squirrel gif.

 

[remydat]

I get what Packerfan is saying. People who break the law can't complain about other people breaking the law. Crime is crime, and you are only arguing about DEGREES.

Right so a person who violated the law by speeding can't complain if his wife is raped and murdered because crime is crime and you are only arguing about degrees? What sort of non-sense is this. Degrees is the main reason that determines how people react to an act.

Maybe the money the pickpocket stole was earmarked for an important medical procedure and the victim died. Unlikely, but who's to say what the consequenses of any action are?

Right so some nebulous link like that is the same as someone intending to physically harm someone knowing full well they are physically harming them? Ok then, lol.

 

[Silverwulf]

Yes but that is an entirely different argument. Packer fan is trying to claim in part that Spygate precludes Bellichek from complaining. That is what I find absurd. If you want to argue the pick play is something that all teams run then I have no problem with that argument. Hence why I said I thought Bellichek was being a bitch by crying about Welker.

I agree his complaining is stupid. I disagreed with Packer Fan's logic (Spygate) for why it was stupid.

True, and I really wasn't trying to get in the middle of that argument. Only point out a different angle that your comment had touched on.

 

[dweebs19]

Bilichik taught Welker how to cheat...why is Belichik crying foul for Welker doing what Belichick taught him to do?

 

[Packer Fan]

Umm bounty gate (ie players paid to injure other players) was punished more severely than Spygate so the NFL already provided their answer to this. You keep bringing up Welker as if that was ever the point. Once again, the Welker thing was just Bellichek being a bitch about a guy he has issues with IMO.

The debate here is your claim that a non-violent crime or cheating precludes someone from having an opinion on violent crime or cheating. If Suh came out today and said he purposefully tries to injure QBs by hitting them illegally then he would be suspended (and loses millions in game checks) for a period of time. The only reason it doesn't happen more is because no one is stupid enough to admit it so it is easy for them to defend it as just them trying to make a play.

So you are saying that Welker will be punished at least $500,000 since this act was a bigger act of cheating than spygate?

 

[Novoitus]

belicheck is a sore loser huh