Best PG in the game

CODE_BLUE56

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Couldn't agree more.

The stats are important but I also believe that seeing it with your own eye is a better judge of talent.

:popcorn:

this this this this and this.....stats dont tell the whole story....maybe a guy has 12 points and 5 turnovers....but maybe alot of those turnovers were not his own mistakes..and even though the player had 12 points he made key defensive plays and shots near the ends...plays that don't come on the stat sheet but they make the biggest difference sometimes
 

Shakes

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Unless you're unemployed it's impossible to "use your eyes" to evaluate the league. Assuming you fast forward all the breaks so you can watch a complete basketball game in an hour, there's still over 50 days worth of basketball watching to be done to watch every game of the regular season even once.

Then when you consider that there's no way anyone is possibly going to reliably remember all that basketball and the idea you can just throw stats out the window seems ridiculously stupid to me.

You need to use a combination of what you see, what others write about what they see and stats to get the full picture.
 

Anytime23

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Vlade Divac....

Seriously, its really hard to chose because you can make an argument for all of them and compare their #s with the talent around them. I think the most complete is Rondo. Still lacks the shooting ability but when called upon he's proven he can score. Ive always been a Williams fan since his Illini days. But at the rate Rose is progressing, he's going to make this a tough argument. If teammates start hitting that open shot and he works on his D, he'll easily be the best.
 

houheffna

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Unless you're unemployed it's impossible to "use your eyes" to evaluate the league. Assuming you fast forward all the breaks so you can watch a complete basketball game in an hour, there's still over 50 days worth of basketball watching to be done to watch every game of the regular season even once.

Then when you consider that there's no way anyone is possibly going to reliably remember all that basketball and the idea you can just throw stats out the window seems ridiculously stupid to me.

You need to use a combination of what you see, what others write about what they see and stats to get the full picture.

I am unemployed...this forum underrates Rondo and Westbrook.
 

houheffna

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westbrook yes ronho no hes overrated on here

Lol...not at all. Rondo is a very good player...the guy almost averaged a triple double a couple of years ago in the playoffs, and he has gotten better since then.
 

WindyCity7

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Lol...not at all. Rondo is a very good player...the guy almost averaged a triple double a couple of years ago in the playoffs, and he has gotten better since then.

that very well may be true but he's in green & white with BOSTON across the chest hes a **** boy now & has been since our 7 game series with them
 

houheffna

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that very well may be true but he's in green & white with BOSTON across the chest hes a **** boy now & has been since our 7 game series with them

Okay...I thought you were actually criticizing his abilities...
 

X

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Okay...I thought you were actually criticizing his abilities...

That guy passes to 3 all-stars/future HOFers better than I've ever seen anybody pass to 3 all-stars/future HOFers.
 

houheffna

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From what I see, Rondo is a damn good player...maybe I am seeing the wrong thing...
 

pinkizdead

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he IS a good player. He's just severely limited in his offensive abilities. He's not a top 10 player good. But he's kinda like joahkim noah. he's got a certain skill set that's freaking great, and helps his team win.

If you need good sets, layups, good passing, and hustle; rondo is your guy.
 

Anytime23

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I'll say this, Rondo has hit more game winning or tying jump shots than Rose has. I wouldnt take him over Rose but im just saying....
 

pinkizdead

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he looks like an alien, and not the cute E.T. kind.
 

FirstTimer

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Sabremetric-esque stats don't work in basketball.

This madness needs to stop.

Also, Per36 stats are a joke. Yinka Dare averaged a near career double double in Per3. Shit like this makes the stat meaningless.
 

WearShades

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Sabremetric-esque stats don't work in basketball.

This madness needs to stop.

Also, Per36 stats are a joke. Yinka Dare averaged a near career double double in Per3. Shit like this makes the stat meaningless.

You're using an extreme example that is not indicative of appropriate use of the statistic. Per36 is a very useful state. For example, some could compare Rose and Deron conventionally and say that Rose's 26.6-8.2 looks pretty good against Deron's 21.9-9.9. However, when you go Per36, Rose has only 24.4-7.6 and Deron has 20.8-9.4. From that, the picture is a lot clearer. Per36 takes minutes out of the equation. It means that you'll get some out of whack figures from players that play very few minutes, but you wouldn't consider those numbers anyway. It's like QB rating on a guy who plays only in garbage time and happens to complete a high percentage with a good TD:TO ratio. You have to contextualize the numbers, and when you do that properly you have a very useful stat.
 

FirstTimer

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You're using an extreme example that is not indicative of appropriate use of the statistic.
No I'm not.

Take a look at other suck asses.


Per36 is a very useful state.
Delaware is more useful.

For example, some could compare Rose and Deron conventionally and say that Rose's 26.6-8.2 looks pretty good against Deron's 21.9-9.9. However, when you go Per36, Rose has only 24.4-7.6 and Deron has 20.8-9.4.
So what? In each scenario Rose is scoring more and has less assists. Per36 doesn’t tell me anything that I didn’t already know. Last I check games aren't 36 minutes long. Also last I checked each of those guys average more than 36 MPG. So looking at their numbers at 36MPG doesn't mean jack squat.

It's a fucking useless stat.

From that, the picture is a lot clearer. Per36 takes minutes out of the equation.
:obama:

WHAT?

No it doesn't. It makes minutes a direct part of the equation.

Are you Special person?



You have to contextualize the numbers, and when you do that properly you have a very useful stat.

NBA games are 48+ minutes long. Looking at a guys Per36 is like caring about what Zambrano's K/6 innings is. It's a meaningless stat.

Anyone who uses Per36 to evaluate a players worth deserves to be hit by a car.
 

WearShades

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No I'm not.

Yes, yes you are.


So what? In each scenario Rose is scoring more and has less assists. Per36 doesn’t tell me anything that I didn’t already know. Last I check games aren't 36 minutes long. Also last I checked each of those guys average more than 36 MPG. So looking at their numbers at 36MPG doesn't mean jack squat.

It's a fucking useless stat.

Per36 tells you how effective a player is during a set amount on time. That's the point. The "games aren't 36 minutes" argument is completely bunk since it ignores the entire premise of the stat. You can get the same effect doing Per48 if you really want to, but you'd have to be pretty ignorant to see that it doesn't accomplish the same thing as Per36.

No it doesn't. It makes minutes a direct part of the equation.

Are you Special person?

No, I just didn't stop taking math in 3rd grade. The point of the stat is that it takes out minutes as a difference between players so as to compare them over the same amount of playing time. Hence, it is no longer a factor.

NBA games are 48+ minutes long. Looking at a guys Per36 is like caring about what Zambrano's K/6 innings is. It's a meaningless stat.

Again, for those who understand math, you can compare strike outs per 9 innings if you like, but it's the same effect as looking at K/6 inning. It's about looking at rates, so the amount of time (innings, minutes, whatever) is irrelevant so long as it's equal across the board when you make comparisons.

Anyone who uses Per36 to evaluate a players worth deserves to be hit by a car.

Get your GED and quit rambling about things you clearly do not understand.
 
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FirstTimer

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Per36 tells you how effective a player is during a set amount on time.
A game is 48 minutes long. Per game90-95% of the time does the exact same thing.

The "games aren't 36 minutes" argument is completely bunk since it ignores the entire premise of the stat. You can get the same effect doing Per48 if you really want to, but you'd have to be pretty ignorant to see that it doesn't accomplish the same thing as Per36.
:obama: x 1 million.

Seriously?

REALLY??!?!?

Per48 would make some semblance of sense seeing as games are 48 minutes long. Rarely longer. I'd rather see that a guy gives me per game than per "some completely arbitrary and useless time frame that no player every really plays that exact amount".

Per game makes so much more sense to go by that it's not even funny.


No, I just didn't stop taking math in 3rd grade. The point of the stat is that it takes out minutes as a difference between players so as to compare them over the same amount of playing time. Hence, it is no longer a factor.
:obama:

You do realize that Per game doesn't make minutes a factor at all right? Hypothetically a game could last infinitely, yet per game only takes into account that game. It doesn't care about minutes played. What you scored in that game is what you scored. Whether you played for 1 minute, or 48, or 100. Per 36 is a form of bastardized statistical communism that treats all players, regardless of minutes played, as equals, when they aren't. It rewards player who either aren't good enough, aren't able to etc play enough to put up good per game stats. Per36 directly makes minutes a factor by equating all stats out on a per minutes basis. To some how says Per36 minutes makes minutes played no longer a factor is Special person because it does the exact fucking opposite. It becomes an even bigger factor for players that play more than 36 minutes per game because it actually makes their stats go down..meanwhile the Yinka Dare's of the world average 8pts and 10rpg.



Again, for those who understand math, you can compare strike outs per 9 innings if you like, but it's the same effect as looking at K/6 inning. It's about looking at rates, so the amount of time (innings, minutes, whatever) is irrelevant so long as it's equal across the board when you make comparisons.
:obama:

I understand math. What I am telling you is that this a pointless, worthless, and fucking Special person stat to use. it actually skews the value of the player rather than gives you the true indication of it.







Get your GED and quit rambling about things you clearly do not understand.
What ass clown site did Rush find you at?
 

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