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LordKOTL

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I think the problem is looking at the bible as if "if one part is wrong the whole thing is wrong".  Consider this:</p>


 </p>


The bible is a human construct written by humans regardless of how much (if any) divine inspiration is attributed to it.  If God is perfect, then Got itself could make a perfect Bible, but would a flawed, imperfect creature such as a human really comprehend it--especially humans millenia old--before the concept of Pi, and the concept of "0" was known, much less understood?  IMHO God using humans to create the bible (assuming God exists, of course), would be like Leonardo using a paint roller to create the Mona Lisa--stuff gets lost and garbled in the translation.</p>


 </p>


Further, applying the analogy similar to God->human = Adult ->Child, It could also be argued that what humans could comprehend millenia ago compared to what they can comprehend now is like the comprehension of a child vs. an adult. A children's book that states the sun rises in the east, moves across the sky, and sets in the west is geared for a target audience with only a specific level of comprehension--one that probably cannot grasp celestial mechanics.  It doesn't mean that, as one gets older, it should negate the rotation of the earth as the mechanism which makes the sun appear to move across the sky from east to west simply because a book geared towards an audience with less grasp of the universe's mechanisms said so years ago.</p>


 </p>


IMHO of course.</p>
 

MassHavoc

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Deadliest Man Alive" data-cid="224268" data-time="1395843040">
<div>


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DufMJosYmJs</p>


 </p>


Its a great big universe, and we're all really puny...</p>


Just tiny lil specs, about the size of Mickey Rooney...</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


I am of the belief the size is infinite as well... so while we are all specs in the grand scheme of the universe, we are all individual universes of our own, and no matter how small a level of unit you measure down to, there will always be another one just below that. hah</p>
 

TSD

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="224174" data-time="1395774874">
<div>


I think the problem is looking at the bible as if "if one part is wrong the whole thing is wrong".  Consider this:</p>


 </p>


The bible is a human construct written by humans regardless of how much (if any) divine inspiration is attributed to it.  If God is perfect, then Got itself could make a perfect Bible, but would a flawed, imperfect creature such as a human really comprehend it--especially humans millenia old--before the concept of Pi, and the concept of "0" was known, much less understood?  IMHO God using humans to create the bible (assuming God exists, of course), would be like Leonardo using a paint roller to create the Mona Lisa--stuff gets lost and garbled in the translation.</p>


 </p>


Further, applying the analogy similar to God->human = Adult ->Child, It could also be argued that what humans could comprehend millenia ago compared to what they can comprehend now is like the comprehension of a child vs. an adult. A children's book that states the sun rises in the east, moves across the sky, and sets in the west is geared for a target audience with only a specific level of comprehension--one that probably cannot grasp celestial mechanics.  It doesn't mean that, as one gets older, it should negate the rotation of the earth as the mechanism which makes the sun appear to move across the sky from east to west simply because a book geared towards an audience with less grasp of the universe's mechanisms said so years ago.</p>


 </p>


IMHO of course.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


 </p>


I wasn't implying the whole thing is wrong so to speak, but that it does open the rest of the book up for questioning.   The concept of "Divine Inspiration" is very vague, what does it even mean? If it can screw up math and science, why couldn't someone screw up the bibles view on morality?  At that point what is the point if you can't trust that the words were Gods intention?  According to the bible Moses wrote the creation story, and spoke directly with God on more than one occasion, that's not divine inspiration, that's God strait up telling him how it is, and what God told him is wrong. This is why Young earth creationists have to basically dismiss science.</p>
 

LordKOTL

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TSD: consider how many times the bible as-is is written, translated, and translated again through the eras, and also how ling the stories were oral tradition. There is "wiggle room". especially since, say, Moses may have spoke to God directly (which in analogy could ba a 5 year old trying to comprehend the meaning of a UN Debate about the Crimea in terms of "level of precision").  But after Moses did what he did--how many imperfect human hands have taken it from there?  How many nuances may have been lost in the background noise?  How many simplifications may have happened that still kinda adhere to the original but were dumbed down to reach the target audience?</p>


 </p>


Many things Copernicus wrote have since been proven wrong, but that doesn't make his traching all wrong, at least in spirit. Most reasonable humans understand that thye older you go there's going to be more wiggle room as human knowledge and comprehension of the universe around us grows.  The erroneus part is taking anything 100% literal, or denoucing anything ancient because part of it has been proven wrong.</p>


 </p>


That's where young earth creationists falter. They take an ancient book as fact, not truth.</p>


 </p>


And Christ Allah and Odin I can't freaking believe I'm here taking this stance.</p>
 

TSD

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="224473" data-time="1395942404">
<div>


TSD: consider how many times the bible as-is is written, translated, and translated again through the eras, and also how ling the stories were oral tradition. There is "wiggle room". especially since, say, Moses may have spoke to God directly (which in analogy could ba a 5 year old trying to comprehend the meaning of a UN Debate about the Crimea in terms of "level of precision").  But after Moses did what he did--how many imperfect human hands have taken it from there?  How many nuances may have been lost in the background noise?  How many simplifications may have happened that still kinda adhere to the original but were dumbed down to reach the target audience?</p>


 </p>


Many things Copernicus wrote have since been proven wrong, but that doesn't make his traching all wrong, at least in spirit. Most reasonable humans understand that thye older you go there's going to be more wiggle room as human knowledge and comprehension of the universe around us grows.  The erroneus part is taking anything 100% literal, or denoucing anything ancient because part of it has been proven wrong.</p>


 </p>


That's where young earth creationists falter. They take an ancient book as fact, not truth.</p>


 </p>


And Christ Allah and Odin I can't freaking believe I'm here taking this stance.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


I don't denounce anything ancient in which part of it has been proven wrong, I do however denounce anything ancient where part of it is proven wrong that make supernatural claims.</p>
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-time="1395939343" data-cid="224463" data-author="The Super Douchiev">

I wasn't implying the whole thing is wrong so to speak, but that it does open the rest of the book up for questioning.   The concept of "Divine Inspiration" is very vague, what does it even mean? If it can screw up math and science, why couldn't someone screw up the bibles view on morality?  At that point what is the point if you can't trust that the words were Gods intention?  According to the bible Moses wrote the creation story, and spoke directly with God on more than one occasion, that's not divine inspiration, that's God strait up telling him how it is, and what God told him is wrong. This is why Young earth creationists have to basically dismiss science.</p></blockquote>

Sometimes, and it can be found in most cultures and religions, the "ah-ha moment" with no obvious or explainable reason (for the time) becomes a "divine inspiration". Like anything, overuse tends to become misuse or general use. Given the time period that the bible was written, and even how smart people were at that time, there was too much that could not be explained. So....
 

the canadian dream

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The Bible is wonderfully advertized and such a brilliant branded product that's why it is so powerful. And I don't mean the content of the bible either I'm talking about the exterior physical being of the bibles. We see them in hotel and motel rooms still these silver binded books with gold lettering appearing from out of nowhere when we open up a drawer. We swear on them in courtrooms still (for reasons I will never understand). We have to place our palms on the hard cover and swear on it after the bible is presented to the room in all its majesty. We see these photos of old bibles and ones in our churches ratty and most certainly used by many hands so it must be something bigger than us all. It's about antiquity..we all are suckers for antiquity and the look of antiquity which speaks to us on many levels. It's presented to us behind glass and presented to us as something so delicate and vulnerable and fragile when people hold it or lift it even if it is a 2014 addition straight of the cheapest printing press on the planet. It's the greatest advertising campaign of all time. Coke aint got shit on the bible when it comes to branding.</p>
 

LordKOTL

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Canadian Dreamalchuk" data-cid="224719" data-time="1396309321">
<div>


The Bible is wonderfully advertized and such a brilliant branded product that's why it is so powerful. And I don't mean the content of the bible either I'm talking about the exterior physical being of the bibles. We see them in hotel and motel rooms still these silver binded books with gold lettering appearing from out of nowhere when we open up a drawer. We swear on them in courtrooms still (for reasons I will never understand). We have to place our palms on the hard cover and swear on it after the bible is presented to the room in all its majesty. We see these photos of old bibles and ones in our churches ratty and most certainly used by many hands so it must be something bigger than us all. It's about antiquity..we all are suckers for antiquity and the look of antiquity which speaks to us on many levels. It's presented to us behind glass and presented to us as something so delicate and vulnerable and fragile when people hold it or lift it even if it is a 2014 addition straight of the cheapest printing press on the planet. It's the greatest advertising campaign of all time. Coke aint got shit on the bible when it comes to branding.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


Can't argue with that.</p>


 </p>


I always wondered about thwe whole "swearing on the bible" or "swearing to God" in courtroom practice.  I understand the reason--to attempt to get someone to hold themselves accountable to a concept that they believe is onipotent, omnipresent, and onmisicent.  In the past when it was almost untinkable that anyoen wasn't Christian is some denomination (within eurocentric view) it made sense.  Nowadays though if someone is Muslim, Jew, Shinto, Budhist, Atheist, Agniostic, Wicca, Pagan, etc., wouldn't it defest the purpose.</p>


 </p>


I don't hold God or the Bible as remotely divine--me swearing to them would be a farse.  I fear going into pound-me-in-the-ass-prison as a consequence of perjury--I don't fear so-called eternal damnation by a deity or its book--mythological or not.</p>
 

supraman

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Deadliest Man Alive" data-cid="224268" data-time="1395843040">
<div>


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DufMJosYmJs</p>


 </p>


Its a great big universe, and we're all really puny...</p>


Just tiny lil specs, about the size of Mickey Rooney...</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Since we are on the subject of god (oh joy), lets shift a bit or rather have a diversion towards alien life. Think of it this way if there is a god and he made all this stuff and then he only put life on earth that would be a terrible waste of....well space. On a cosmic level we are less significant than a single ant is in regards to earth.</p>


 </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Deadliest Man Alive" data-cid="224780" data-time="1396376045">
<div>


EXCOMMUNICATE HIM!!!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


MAKE HIM WATCH CANUCK GAMES!!!!</p>
 

The Count Dante

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I would just be happy if "Well, the Bible says..." had its connotation reflect "Well, Dr. Suess says..." Because at least Dr. Seuss stories make more sense, have less holes in them, contain more truth, and infinitely more entertaining. </p>
 

supraman

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Deadliest Man Alive" data-cid="224815" data-time="1396388869">
<div>


I would just be happy if "Well, the Bible says..." had its connotation reflect "Well, Dr. Suess says..." Because at least Dr. Seuss stories make more sense, have less holes in them, contain more truth, and infinitely more entertaining. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


My biggest gripe with the bible is that is does not include all the books of the apostles and early popes actually declared some of those works heretical. I see it this way you have to take all the books to get the whole picture of "true" christianity</p>
 

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