Brandon Hagel traded

[RacerX]

SMH, following the logic of the majority in this thread, if I sell my house for cash I can't determine whether it was a smart move until I reinvest that cash at a later date and then later on assess the results of the reinvestment?

I mean, ok if that's how y'all see it, but personally I reach my conclusion on the house sale based on market value/demand/comps for that house sale at the time I sold it, NOT at how and when I subsequently reinvest those proceeds at a future date.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Nah, the Hagel trade gets evaluated independently of what the future picks bring. We received fair value in the trade IMO, period. What the FO does in the future with those picks also gets evaluated independently. Though obv connected, those are separate transactions.

As well as the things Hagel can do Raddysh couldn't.

The Hawks might get the offensive production, but Hagel has scored on the Lightning PK already and been helpful to them on the kill. Likely they have all the "production" they could ever want but needed some specific traits they found there with the PK and forecheck/speed/hustle/tenacity.

Aging veteran team, so like for us, Hagel's elements are gold to them. But the timing is right for the them and not us.

 

[JimAKABlkhwks918]

SMH, following the logic of the majority in this thread, if I sell my house for cash I can't determine whether it was a smart move until I reinvest that cash at a later date and then later on assess the results of the reinvestment?

I mean, ok if that's how y'all see it, but personally I reach my conclusion on the house sale based on market value/demand/comps for that house sale at the time I sold it, NOT at how and when I subsequently reinvest those proceeds at a future date.

I always used the "we'll see if this was a good trade in a couple of years" terminology in the case of things like the Hagel trade...I think you are right, but what I think is actually meant by that terminology is "we'll see if the GM is any good at using the picks he got."

I agree that blowing the draft picks on two stiffs that never sniff the NHL does not mean this trade was bad, it just means the GM is good at horse trading, and shitty at talent evaluation.

 

[dbldrew]

SMH, following the logic of the majority in this thread, if I sell my house for cash I can't determine whether it was a smart move until I reinvest that cash at a later date and then later on assess the results of the reinvestment?

I mean, ok if that's how y'all see it, but personally I reach my conclusion on the house sale based on market value/demand/comps for that house sale at the time I sold it, NOT at how and when I subsequently reinvest those proceeds at a future date.

Cash is a know value draft picks are not.

 

[RacerX]

Cash is a know value draft picks are not.

Draft pick value charts also disagree with you.

Obviously cash has an objective value which we all agree upon, and draft picks have more subjectivity in the sense they hold different values for different teams based on their respective needs and timing.

I fear that has gotten boring and it's ok to disagree, go Hawks!

 

[dbldrew]

Draft pick value charts also disagree with you.

Obviously cash has an objective value which we all agree upon, and draft picks have more subjectivity in the sense they hold different values for different teams based on their respective needs and timing.

I fear that has gotten boring and it's ok to disagree, go Hawks!

Yes draft pics have value, but the full value of the draft pick is not known until that pick is used on a player.
Its like a scratch off lottery ticket has value, but the true value is not known until you scratch it.

But agreed this is getting boring, agree to disagree.. go Hawks!

 

[Raskolnikov]

I always used the "we'll see if this was a good trade in a couple of years" terminology in the case of things like the Hagel trade...I think you are right, but what I think is actually meant by that terminology is "we'll see if the GM is any good at using the picks he got."

I agree that blowing the draft picks on two stiffs that never sniff the NHL does not mean this trade was bad, it just means the GM is good at horse trading, and shitty at talent evaluation.

I think he showed for the right player he stands by the classic "contract player and a pick."

So he has standards. The fact they paid those standards for Hagel...in double....how could we say no? For their part..Hagel just has to be the guy we have always asked of him and carry some veterans in hard work areas.

They got the right man for the job.

I see it as a win win, unless we totally blow the picks. Both sides are right in the judge now judge later argument. imo.

 

[KBIB]

Well, a top 40 pick in 23 is a good pick.

Right now a top ten pick in 23 is going to net you an elite talent.

A top 2 pick is going to get you a generational one.

Picks 11 to 45 is going to get you a good player.

I have been studying this draft for over a year now. There is no comparison from past drafts to it.

The best thing is Kelly will have nothing to do with it.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Well, a top 40 pick in 23 is a good pick.

Right now a top ten pick in 23 is going to net you an elite talent.

A top 2 pick is going to get you a generational one.

Picks 11 to 45 is going to get you a good player.

I have been studying this draft for over a year now. There is no comparison from past drafts to it.

The best thing is Kelly will have nothing to do with it.

I'm in favor of trading our 2022 picks for top 40 2023 picks.

I won't cry about a top 2 pick, but if we want to try and come away with a top line and a top pair at the top of that draft, and move Kane/Toews at the right time...

get it done. It looks like we have no choice now but to be tanked at the right time.

 

[DaHawkz24]

If Raddysh keeps playing like these 2 game we might win this trade. He is taking advantage of getting more ice time.
We'll see if Hagel continues to produce with a smaller role, and hopefully at least one of the 1st rounders contributes in the NHL

Hagel only has 1 goal (less ice time/different role) so my theory is still looking good!

 

[KBIB]

I'm in favor of trading our 2022 picks for top 40 2023 picks.

I won't cry about a top 2 pick, but if we want to try and come away with a top line and a top pair at the top of that draft, and move Kane/Toews at the right time...

get it done. It looks like we have no choice now but to be tanked at the right time.

I’m all for it.

The 23 draft is the type of draft that can jumpstart a rebuild. It’s too heavy and deep.

The question, just like this year, is how the shit popping off in the Ukraine is going to effect the Russian kids.

Michkov is going either one or two, there’s no debating that. But the other kids?

Daniil But is going to be a monster and would be a top ten pick this year. He might slide into the top of the second round in 23 because he’s Russian. That’s how deep this draft is.

 

[HSBOB]

Draft pick value charts also disagree with you.

Obviously cash has an objective value which we all agree upon, and draft picks have more subjectivity in the sense they hold different values for different teams based on their respective needs and timing.

I fear that has gotten boring and it's ok to disagree, go Hawks!

I get your point X-man.....at this moment in time,the return looks to be very good regardless of how the picks are used. Going into the season,I think we all woulda shit our shorts just thinking about two 1st rounders and two b-c grade prospects for Hagel but his production for his salary brought that value.

 

[HSBOB]

Hagel only has 1 goal (less ice time/different role) so my theory is still looking good!

Just what is your theory?

Hagel's younger than either player coming back,he has over double their production combined and is the MUCH better player at this point.

We'll see what Hagel's value to Tampa is after a series or two and if he can work his way into the champ's top six like he did here with his combination of desire and ability.

We'll have to re-visit this again at the end of next year and the one after that too.........Hagel will earn 3M those two years combined.

 

[DaHawkz24]

Just what is your theory?

Hagel's younger than either player coming back,he has over double their production combined and is the MUCH better player at this point.

We'll see what Hagel's value to Tampa is after a series or two and if he can work his way into the champ's top six like he did here with his combination of desire and ability.

We'll have to re-visit this again at the end of next year and the one after that too.........Hagel will earn 3M those two years combined.

Basically that Raddysh and Hagel seem to have similar minor league production. Hagel took advantage of his role and ice time with the Hawks while Raddysh was burried in Tampa.

Raddysh is now producing in these first 6 games with the Hawks better than Hagel with the lightning due to ice time and role.

If one of these draft picks end up being an NHL contributor, and Raddysh can keep producing it was a great trade.

 

[Granada]

I agree with both you guys (DaHawks and HSBob). I feel like even if Hagel doesn't produce as much on Tampa, that doesn't necessarily mean they lost the trade; it just means that his role is completely different. Tampa and Chicago are polar opposites of each other, so it makes sense.

I loved Hagel and it's very early, but so far, I'm really please with both Raddyish and Kachouck. I counted Kachouck with at least 3 solid hits last night; Raddyish had another great assist. And what's great about both is, they don't back down; they're big, physical players who don't play afraid. Hagel was the same way.

I know he wasn't part of the trade, but Lafferty has been fantastic since he was acquired. Between the three of them, they've already made Hagel's departure much easier to swallow. That one shift Lafferty had where he absolutely steamrolled a player just before immediately scoring a goal was the most fired up I've been all season as a fan.

 

[KBIB]

Basically that Raddysh and Hagel seem to have similar minor league production. Hagel took advantage of his role and ice time with the Hawks while Raddysh was burried in Tampa.

Raddysh is now producing in these first 6 games with the Hawks better than Hagel with the lightning due to ice time and role.

If one of these draft picks end up being an NHL contributor, and Raddysh can keep producing it was a great trade.

This right here.

Hagel is getting ten minutes less of ice time on a cup contender and is a role player on a contender, which is what most people were saying. He’s going to have a hard time cracking the Bolts top six this year but is extremely effective on the pk where as Raddysh has been extremely effective on the pp and a defensive black hole.

Raddyshs shooting percentage doubled the second he became a Hawk.You are getting Hagels production offensively from Raddysh and honestly with this team being so fucking bad it wouldn’t shock me if Raddysh was a 50 point guy next year where as Hagel will be a 30 point guy on the Bolts while playing a stellar two way.

It’s apples and oranges right now but the Hawks got a bunch of apples for one orange.

And BTW, anybody who thinks Kane is taking a pay cut here or anywhere, last time I checked, he was the highest scoring RW and should be a first team RW. Good luck with that.

 

[Granada]

And BTW, anybody who thinks Kane is taking a pay cut here or anywhere, last time I checked, he was the highest scoring RW and should be a first team RW. Good luck with that.

And anyone who thinks Kane will get paid 12 million dollars for an eternity to stay, good luck with that too.

 

[KBIB]

If you don’t think Kane gets 12 million on the open market while still being the highest scoring RW in the game good luck with that

 

[Diehardfan]

If you don’t think Kane gets 12 million on the open market while still being the highest scoring RW in the game good luck with that

That's why you trade him.....you may get burnt for a season or so but after that you won't be paying huge dollars to someone with a diminshing
skill set plus you should see a nice return for him as well. That's the deal here....don't half step....if you are gonna rebuild, then fucking rebuild.

 

[Granada]

If you don’t think Kane gets 12 million on the open market while still being the highest scoring RW in the game good luck with that

That's a separate argument (what he'd get on the open market). The Hawks will not give him 12 million for an eternity.