Building Through the Draft

[Bearly]

Core players can come from any avenue. The key is not needing to get too many from FA as they may not be available and not having enough cap to do so. Hicks is a great example of a core player acquired outside the draft.

What's meant by building through the draft is that the bulk of any successful roster needs to be from the draft. My idea of building through the draft has to do with development and next man up philosophy. Drafting well enough to keep later picks around and developing them into starters so you don't have holes when your own players leave to FA or get injured. It's difficult to keep them all. It also takes a while if the cupboard is bare.

Where GB fucks up is that they do effectively participate in FA by overpaying some of their own to hang around after their prime. Works great when you draft pretty well for a period and those players are in their prime but you need to be more like BB and stay ahead of the production curve. You won't always get it right but you also have the funds to fix it for a while if not.

 

[Washington]

It means you only use FA to fill in a few holes. The majority of the team is guys you drafted. Pretty simple.

In a 53 man roster, 27 players would be the majority leaving 26 players. Does that qualify as building through the draft? If it is that simple, it would be easy to apply the metrics and show the teams that have built through the draft. What is the majority % that qualifies?

 

[jbunch14]

I’ve read often that Ryan Pace is building this team right; through the draft. That seems like the appropriate/goal approach but I am not really sure how to conclude that a team is built through the draft. So, I’m wondering, how does one define the term “Building through the draft?”

In order to prove it out, wouldn’t there need to be metrics applied? If not, wouldn’t the term be viewed as conjecture? What are the metrics?

- A roster where every player was drafted by the current team’s GM(s).
- A roster where 1..n % of players are FAs. What is that %?
- Same as above but with breakouts by 1 year versus multi-year deals.
- How do trades impact “Building through the draft” metrics?

Now take your metrics and apply it to the NFL. What Super Bowl champions over, say the last 10 years, fit those metrics of building through the draft. IMO, a team like NE does not because BB used FA regularly and also loves to make trades. I would say that a team like GB seems to fit the Building through the draft mantra but that would depend on the metrics. I do feel that TT was canned for not using FA enough.

Slow day at the office?

 

[Washington]

Well that is what the Bears front office people have been saying so i repeat what the people that are building this team say they're doing in building this team which is building through the draft. I would think that when your main pieces on your team and a big percentage of your team is players you drafted then that would mean your team is built mostly through the draft..IMO. I think some of the teams that have won the super bowl in the last 10 that i would consider being built through the draft would be the Patriots, Ravens, Steelers, Colts, Packers and maybe even the Seahawks. The big name players on those teams that you could say lead them to the super bowl were drafted. Now i would think you would be smart enough to know that no team is completely built through drafts and would think that would be impossible to do.

Ok now you can nit pick the hell out of everything i just said which i'm sure you're sitting with your finger on the F5 button waiting to come back at me. Not sure why i was pointed out by you in this when all i was doing was repeating what the guy that's building our team has said but it looks to me like most of the teams that have won the super bowl in the last 10 years have been mostly built through the draft especially their QBs' and other main players on their teams.

Your turn.

Thanks db70. I mentioned you because you are one person saying Pace is building the team through the draft and I am trying to figure out how to quantify that statement. It sounds like you are not sure either and are just taking Pace's word for it.

How about this as another metric - Could one say that if you qualify for supplemental picks in say 3 of 4 consecutive seasons, that you are building through the draft? It would be hard to say you are building through the draft if you sign more FAs than you lose most years.

 

[Washington]

Slow day at the office?

Slow time of year when your team is eliminated from the playoffs.

 

[jbunch14]

Slow time of year when your team is eliminated from the playoffs.

So slow day at the office; got it!

 

[dabears70]

Thanks db70. I mentioned you because you are one person saying Pace is building the team through the draft and I am trying to figure out how to quantify that statement. It sounds like you are not sure either and are just taking Pace's word for it.

How about this as another metric - Could one say that if you qualify for supplemental picks in say 3 of 4 consecutive seasons, that you are building through the draft? It would be hard to say you are building through the draft if you sign more FAs than you lose most years.

I'm thinking you're not gonna get the answer you're looking for cause i'm not sure any fan will know what qualifies as building through the draft. I really don't think there is one answer for it or which teams are doing or have done it so good luck on getting the answer you're looking for and let us know if you figure it out.

 

[SugarWalls]

Plain and simple what Pace is saying when he says he is "building through the draft" is that this re-build is going to take time. It isn't going to be fixed simply by going to free agency and plugging guys in to fill the holes. There are/were way too many holes to be fixed by dipping into FA.

And I'm surprised you are still trying to debate this. What's next, bearmick gonna start a Watson is better than Trubisky thread?

 

[xer0h0ur]

I think the term building through the draft is both overused and misunderstood. Through different eras of football its meant different things. The main reason why its meaning has changed over time is the fact that the salary cap has been rising and rising for a long time as have free agent contracts. It wasn't until recently that rookie contracts were put under control making free agency even more attractive for teams.

In reality, the modern NFL is built so that its literally impossible to strictly be a team that grossly sticks to building through the draft unless you're willing to wait a long time for that team to finish rebuilding. So strictly speaking its just not possible to not dip into free agency to build a good team. The only thing you can hope for is that you manage to find some gems in free agency that give you more value than what you ended up paying for. Guys like Akiem Hicks for instance. Every now and again you can also go for the big dogs when you feel like your roster has reached the tipping point where a big name free agent can put you over the line into playoff territory.

There are also examples of teams that flat out bought themselves a super bowl through free agency. Most recent example of that was Elway with the Denver Broncos. The Jacksonville Jaguars haven't exactly won a super bowl themselves but you're seeing this season the results of David Caldwell's trades and free agent spending. They bought themselves a team. 2017 free agents were defensive end Calais Campbell, cornerback A.J. Bouye and safety Barry Church as well as trading for left tackle Branden Albert and defensive tackle Marcell Dareus. In 2016 they spent a boatload of money on Linebacker Malik Jackson, safety Tashaun Gipson, running back Chris Ivory. Its not to say that the Jags only got players from free agency as of course they did manage some hits in the draft like Leonard Fournette, Myles Jack and Jalen Ramsey but its worth noting that their "rebuild" has been going since 2013.

 

[Washington]

Plain and simple what Pace is saying when he says he is "building through the draft" is that this re-build is going to take time. It isn't going to be fixed simply by going to free agency and plugging guys in to fill the holes. There are/were way too many holes to be fixed by dipping into FA.

And I'm surprised you are still trying to debate this. What's next, bearmick gonna start a Watson is better than Trubisky thread?

No debate at all. What's to debate? Just looking for opinions. There obviously is no answer or right or wrong. But, people will use the term and it has been used often already. There have been many opinions in here on what the term actually means. That's all I was looking for.

 

[Washington]

I think the term building through the draft is both overused and misunderstood. Through different eras of football its meant different things. The main reason why its meaning has changed over time is the fact that the salary cap has been rising and rising for a long time as have free agent contracts. It wasn't until recently that rookie contracts were put under control making free agency even more attractive for teams.

In reality, the modern NFL is built so that its literally impossible to strictly be a team that grossly sticks to building through the draft unless you're willing to wait a long time for that team to finish rebuilding. So strictly speaking its just not possible to not dip into free agency to build a good team. The only thing you can hope for is that you manage to find some gems in free agency that give you more value than what you ended up paying for. Guys like Akiem Hicks for instance. Every now and again you can also go for the big dogs when you feel like your roster has reached the tipping point where a big name free agent can put you over the line into playoff territory.

There are also examples of teams that flat out bought themselves a super bowl through free agency. Most recent example of that was Elway with the Denver Broncos. The Jacksonville Jaguars haven't exactly won a super bowl themselves but you're seeing this season the results of David Caldwell's trades and free agent spending. They bought themselves a team. 2017 free agents were defensive end Calais Campbell, cornerback A.J. Bouye and safety Barry Church as well as trading for left tackle Branden Albert and defensive tackle Marcell Dareus. In 2016 they spent a boatload of money on Linebacker Malik Jackson, safety Tashaun Gipson, running back Chris Ivory. Its not to say that the Jags only got players from free agency as of course they did manage some hits in the draft like Leonard Fournette, Myles Jack and Jalen Ramsey but its worth noting that their "rebuild" has been going since 2013.

Well thought out post.

 

[Visionman]

Several really good comments here. I don't don't think the only way you can build a quality team is through the draft, but it does come with less risk. As others have stated, even not all of the top FAs every year live up to their new contract and expectations. And that absolutely kills you given the overly inflated contracts top FAs get. Its like drafting a #1overall bust under the old CBA.

But if you can sign FAs that live up to their contracts, you can build a good team that way. It is just hard to do. And if you chose wrong on a huge multi year deal...there goes the next season or two...

 

[BNB]

Building through free agency is pricey. If you build through the draft, you can get great players on cheap 4 year deals, and then maybe they'll sweeten the pot by taking a bit of a hometown discount. Free agents are looking to get paid.

I agree with those that said "Building through the draft" means primarily drafting your cornerstones, and then filling in the rest with affordable free agent role players.

 

[MDB111™]

I'm pretty sure there is only 1 player from the 2017 draft on the patriots roster currently. Besides sissy boy, gronk and Edelman, I can't think of that many more players that the pats drafted and are currently starting.
Imo it's gotta be a mix of fa and draft. The building through the draft slogan is like a catch phrase or something.
Just a thought, but I don't give a shit how they win....just win baby....... <catch phrase

 

[Visionman]

I'm pretty sure there is only 1 player from the 2017 draft on the patriots roster currently. Besides sissy boy, gronk and Edelman, I can't think of that many more players that the pats drafted and are currently starting.
Imo it's gotta be a mix of fa and draft. The building through the draft slogan is like a catch phrase or something.
Just a thought, but I don't give a shit how they win....just win baby....... <catch phrase

The Pats are already built, and have been so for a long time. Vets take a pay cut to play there for the chance to win a SB, usually after they made 10s of millions playing for lesser teams.

It is a foolish comparison for the Bears, or most any other team...

 

[MDB111™]

The Pats are already built, and have been so for a long time. Vets take a pay cut to play there for the chance to win a SB, usually after they made 10s of millions playing for lesser teams.

It is a foolish comparison for the Bears, or most any other team...

The league average is 27 players drafted. Teams like gb go as high as 35 while teams like the saints went as low as 20. I found 2015 data.

But my point still stands...how are the patriots "already built" they traded their first for brandin cooks. Lost the previous number 1 pick due to deflate gate. Hogan, cook, amendola..all free agents. The patriots are just like every team and have to scrap every year to build their roster.
I think by building through the draft, it means finding a qb, rb and a few other stars sprinkled in there, but the proof is half the team is drafted and the other half is free agency

 

[Visionman]

If you believe the Pats are "like every other team", then there's really no reasoning with you...

 

[Chicago Staleys]

I don’t care about building through the draft, building through Free Agency or building with trades. I just miss December meaning anything.

 

[MDB111™]

If you believe the Pats are "like every other team", then there's really no reasoning with you...

They cheat so there is that. Lol. Look, we all know they are the best but how much of that is the organization? The coaching? You say they "are already built" and I am telling you that they aren't. In fact, their team has one of the higher amounts of free agents. If by built you mean tom Brady, then yeah they are already built.
My argument is not that teams shouldn't build through the draft but that they all try to but it is a balance. The best team in the league at building through the draft was the cheese with 35 players drafted in 2015...
To me, it appears as if it has to be a fine balance.
Either way, cheers and thanks for the back and forth.