Bulls Beat #107 - Case for Kirk

[wjb1492]

Kush77 wrote:

My stance on gordon has nothing to do with "hating Kirk hinrich", I just don't think Hinrich is that good. And I'm not sure how someone who has basically averaged 10ppg over the last two season gets such a defense from fans and media.

What if Ben gordon averaged 10ppg over the last 2 years? Would there be people rushing to his defense? God no! People are quick to rip him when he has two bad games.

Kirk's defense, yeah, he's a above average defender. He's not all-world. I'm sorry, Hinrich's D doesn't make up for the fact that he's a 10ppg scorer, shoots in the low 40's, and never gets to the FT line.

Ben scoring 10 ppg would obviously be a much bigger issue, since his role on the team is to score. Kirk is asked to do things other than score a lot. That's reflected in their usage rates, with Ben's being the highest on the team of guys to play regular minutes, and Kirk's being second lowest to Joakim's. They're asked to play different roles, and this season I think they've both played those roles admirably.

Asking why it's OK if Kirk only scores 10 ppg would be like asking why it's OK if Ben only averages 3 assists per game.

Also, it would be nice if people would portray Kirk's offense fairly. By all means, argue away that Ben is a better offensive player and scorer. I whole-heartedly agree. But there's no need to misstate what Kirk is doing this season or resort to last season's stats as if this season didn't occur or doesn't count for anything. Per 36, Kirk is averaging 13.5, .5 ppg better than last year on 1 fewer fga per game. And he's shooting .434 overall and .425 from 3. Kirk has plenty of flaws as a player for people to pick on, but he is shooting well this season.

And before anyone gets upset that I'm defending "my guy," I would prefer that Kirk be traded someplace he can start at PG, and I really like Ben and would like the Bulls to find some way to resign him this offseason.

 

[dougthonus]

Also, it would be nice if people would portray Kirk's offense fairly. By all means, argue away that Ben is a better offensive player and scorer. I whole-heartedly agree. But there's no need to misstate what Kirk is doing this season or resort to last season's stats as if this season didn't occur or doesn't count for anything. Per 36, Kirk is averaging 13.5, .5 ppg better than last year on 1 fewer fga per game. And he's shooting .434 overall and .425 from 3. Kirk has plenty of flaws as a player for people to pick on, but he is shooting well this season.

I agree with you. Kirk's done a nice job offensively this year. He's not a goto scorer like Ben, but he's done a nice job shooting the 3 and scoring at a fairly efficient clip. He's not Chris Duhon or anything out there. Hinrich can't be left alone and helps keep the defense honest.

The offense has looked very good when Kirk is on the court for the most part this season.

Gordon's played his role well as well of course which gets back to my point that I don't think it's open and shut for either.

 

[Dpauley23]

Kush, I think that Salmons could fit that 3 option quite well though

 

[Fred]

According to my back of the napkin math, during the past 5 seasons, Gordon has missed 12 games. Hinrich has missed 47. Deng will miss 77. One must wonder what Reinsdorf would've offered Camby if we drafted him.

Does anyone know the Bulls record in these games that Gordon and the Captains have missed? Obviously, Hinrich missed most of his games this year. Gordon missed 10 last year.

 

[dougthonus]

Fred wrote:

Does anyone know the Bulls record in these games that Gordon and the Captains have missed? Obviously, Hinrich missed most of his games this year. Gordon missed 10 last year.

I would suspect that Hinrich has done quite well in this statistic given that we were atrocious without him this year.

I want to say people looked this up in the past that we did fine without Gordon and Hinrich, but I may be thinking of Curry. I don't know which way this side of an argument would go, but I'm not sure how valid it is due to a small sample size and largely different teammates when the guys were missing.

For example, missing 10 games in 06/07 would hurt you a lot more than missing 10 games in 07/08 or 08/09 when the team as a whole was far worse.

The idea has merit, but I'm not sure there are enough data points for the idea to be implemented with merit.

 

[mikita's helmet]

Then stay on topic and stop the personal attack shit. Read through the entire thread here and you will see it's split down the middle - half in favor of the death penalty and the other half against it. This is not me vs. the board as you are insinuating. Half the people here believe in the death penalty. Read first next time before reacting.

You're the one bringing up religion all the time, not me.



All muslims are blah, blah, blah...



We'd love to see you come back to the Catholic Church, blah, blah, blah...



Guess you can dish it out but not take it.





And when you say something illogical, and idiotic, as...



"[The death penalty] will never be 100% though - even when you think you have a slam dunk case there will always be one here and there that trickle through and are wrongly put to death."



...I got to respond.