Bulls Front Office Rolling Eyes at Gordon

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

You know you have no ground to stand on with this argument so now you make stuff up? Who told you anything about 9mil? Did Gordon say that? Who told you that?

Wow you claim you know all this basketball knowledge but you don't know about the deal that was offered last summer.


http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chi...e-bulls-fail-to-capitalize-on-ben-gordon.html

 

[houheffna]

I talked about those deals and what happened already. Gordon and his agent turned down the offer initially. After the imposed deadline, they wanted to accept. The Bulls got tired of the games. Simple as that.

All of these asinine arguments, the Bulls don't want to win...keeping Gordon doesn't denounce or support that belief. Because he is not the type of player that affects winning that much. They go after the big boys, the ones that win championships. Gordon is not one of those. They might have one on their team though. And that is all that matters.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

I talked about those deals and what happened already. Gordon and his agent turned down the offer initially. After the imposed deadline, they wanted to accept. The Bulls got tired of the games. Simple as that.

All of these asinine arguments, the Bulls don't want to win...keeping Gordon doesn't denounce or support that belief. Because he is not the type of player that affects winning that much. They go after the big boys, the ones that win championships. Gordon is not one of those. They might have one on their team though. And that is all that matters.

What games he said give me the deal you offered and the bulls pulled it. Who is playing the games there? Further BG affects winning greatly. The five years before he got here, no playoff appearence, since then 4 out of 5 yr he was in the playoffs. He won a title at Uconn and has been a winner in this league.

 

[houheffna]

Quit being hypocritical, when criticizing Pax, you talk about how he can barely get out of the first round, but Gordon is a winner all of a sudden...futile arguments.

I am done talking about BG until things are official and both sides have spoken.

You can light a candle and shed a tear, and continue to blame the front office for not signing back a complimentary player. Good luck with that.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Quit being hypocritical, when criticizing Pax, you talk about how he can barely get out of the first round, but Gordon is a winner all of a sudden...futile arguments.

I am done talking about BG until things are official and both sides have spoken.

You can light a candle and shed a tear, and continue to blame the front office for not signing back a complimentary player. Good luck with that.

BG won the best he could with the group around him. He has never played with a star. Its the GM's job to put talent on the team, not BG's. How much better do you really think any of the limited bulls teams preform?

 

[iltdi]

??? ?????? wrote:

houheffna wrote:

BG's mouth aint no prayerbook as my family from Arkansas used to say.

Lets hear both sides, I think some of you will be surprised, you will still be pissed at management because, you have nothing better to do but you will hear both sides.

Gar Forman is supposed to speak about this July 8th, stay tuned.

My guess is the Bulls will file a tampering charge with the league office about how Detroit already made his agent a wink wink offer two weeks ago. My hope is that the league comes down hard on them like the Joe Smith case with Minny. Give us Detroit's 1st round pick for the next two years, so we can root for them to lose like we did with New York.

 

[TheStig]

iltdi wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

houheffna wrote:

BG's mouth aint no prayerbook as my family from Arkansas used to say.

Lets hear both sides, I think some of you will be surprised, you will still be pissed at management because, you have nothing better to do but you will hear both sides.

Gar Forman is supposed to speak about this July 8th, stay tuned.

My guess is the Bulls will file a tampering charge with the league office about how Detroit already made his agent a wink wink offer two weeks ago. My hope is that the league comes down hard on them like the Joe Smith case with Minny. Give us Detroit's 1st round pick for the next two years, so we can root for them to lose like we did with New York.

In the Joe Smith case Minny had to forfeit the picks not give them to the other team. It is also highly unlikely to yield any action as it is hard to prove and the only evidence is a speculative writer.

 

[dougthonus]

houheffna wrote:

That is not a weak excuse, you don't know what the initial offer is, so you ask. How the heck are they supposed to assume when it comes to millions of dollars?

The games were played by Gordon and his agent. It is what it is.

How did the Pistons ever make an offer without knowing what someone else offered him first?

I don't understand it. They couldn't. Ben Gordon must be a free agent. It's impossible to make an offer to a player without knowing if your offer will be the greatest or accepted.

Therefore, Ben Gordon must still be a free agent!!!

 

[DASMACKDOWN]

dougthonus wrote:
[quote

How did the Pistons ever make an offer without knowing what someone else offered him first?

I don't understand it. They couldn't. Ben Gordon must be a free agent. It's impossible to make an offer to a player without knowing if your offer will be the greatest or accepted.

Therefore, Ben Gordon must still be a free agent!!![/quote]

I disagree Doug. It happens all the time.

Teams that have tons of cap space can be more fruitful with their money because they know they could spend it.

Market rate is sort of thrown out the window.

What was Rashad Lewis's market rate when he signed with Orlando? I know for a fact that it wasnt 120 million. Everyone agrees Orlando severly overpaid. But they set the market for that player.

What about Kapono's deal?

I believe the Ben Wallace deal and the Gordon deal are basically the same.

Detroit was somewhat skeptical to paying Wallace at a max rate. It was believed that the most they would give Ben was 12mil per. But Bulls (Just like the Pistons) went July 1 to Ben Wallace and said 15 mil. DONE DEAL. Detroit wasnt going to come close to that. Its over.

I feel that from our perspective 10 mil would have been the absolute max. Detroit initially calling 11.6 its basically over.

 

[houheffna]

He verbally committed, which means game over, otherwise there is no reason to come out with a verbal commitment.

The facts are the Pistons were 20mil under the cap and the Bulls 2mil, so they made their offer. The Bulls were not going to match and pay 9mil in luxury tax, that would be totally stupid. So done deal.

Doug, I don't understand your argument at all. All of the reports say that the door was pretty much slammed on the Bulls. They wanted to hear the initial offer from the Pistons, why would the Pistons have to wait for another offer? That makes no sense at all. And maybe the Bulls don't do business according to rumors. Or once hearing 11mil, they said forget it, not bidding for that much is not an embarrassment, it was good business. Saying Gordon was their top priority was them driving up his market value, since by law they could be the highest bidder.

 

[dougthonus]

Doug, I don't understand your argument at all. All of the reports say that the door was pretty much slammed on the Bulls. They wanted to hear the initial offer from the Pistons, why would the Pistons have to wait for another offer? That makes no sense at all. And maybe the Bulls don't do business according to rumors. Or once hearing 11mil, they said forget it, not bidding for that much is not an embarrassment, it was good business. Saying Gordon was their top priority was them driving up his market value, since by law they could be the highest bidder.

I was being sarcastic.

The Pistons made an offer without having to hear an offer from another team. They wanted Ben Gordon and made an offer.

The Bulls could have made an offer, they choose not to. There's no rule saying that Ben Gordon has to detail his negotiations with the Pistons to the Bulls in order to make an offer. The Pistons made an offer without having to wait for another team to set the bar.

The Bulls could have done the same, they chose not to. They could have been there at 12:01 with an offer for him, they chose not to be.

The fact that Ben Gordon didn't specify what his offer was to make their life easier is irrelevant to the fact that the Bulls refused to make an offer. They said BG was their #1 priority, but if he was, then they would have bid prior to waiting for the Pistons to set the market for him, then asked what the Pistons offer was.

However, BG clearly wasn't a priority for them. So much so that they wouldn't make an offer to him unless they knew the exact target they needed to hit to have a higher offer, and they were too scared to even throw out a number and lose the negotiation (even though that would have meant nothing).

The Pistons, for example, gave Ben Wallace an offer even though the Bulls signed him. They offered him 12 million a year, they were turned down. Oh well, they still made an effort. We did not. We claimed we wanted Ben back, but in the end, we didn't try.

If they really didn't want Ben back or didn't want him back at that price, then that's fine. However, then don't pay lip service to the idea that he's a priority that you want back this summer when you're too scared to even bid.

 

[houheffna]

I was being sarcastic.

The Pistons made an offer without having to hear an offer from another team. They wanted Ben Gordon and made an offer.

The Bulls could have made an offer, they choose not to. There's no rule saying that Ben Gordon has to detail his negotiations with the Pistons to the Bulls in order to make an offer. The Pistons made an offer without having to wait for another team to set the bar.

The Bulls could have done the same, they chose not to. They could have been there at 12:01 with an offer for him, they chose not to be.

The fact that Ben Gordon didn't specify what his offer was to make their life easier is irrelevant to the fact that the Bulls refused to make an offer. They said BG was their #1 priority, but if he was, then they would have bid prior to waiting for the Pistons to set the market for him, then asked what the Pistons offer was.

However, BG clearly wasn't a priority for them. So much so that they wouldn't make an offer to him unless they knew the exact target they needed to hit to have a higher offer, and they were too scared to even throw out a number and lose the negotiation (even though that would have meant nothing).

The Pistons, for example, gave Ben Wallace an offer even though the Bulls signed him. They offered him 12 million a year, they were turned down. Oh well, they still made an effort. We did not. We claimed we wanted Ben back, but in the end, we didn't try.

If they really didn't want Ben back or didn't want him back at that price, then that's fine. However, then don't pay lip service to the idea that he's a priority that you want back this summer when you're too scared to even bid

Okay, here it is, they lied, I have been saying this for weeks. When people got so excited about them possibly signing Gordon. When Forman made those statements, I said that we should wait and see what happens.

When Hinrich wasn't moved, Gordon was gone. Period. They kept the better all around player over the dynamic scorer. It was a basketball decision. I knew after draft night Gordon was gone, unless a Hinrich move was pending, Gordon was gone. Why are people surprised? Angry? Sad? Why is that?

In essence, they gave up on Gordon and were not interested. But I believe they wanted Detroit specifically and the league in general to offer him as much as they could, to their own detriment. And I don't blame them, makes perfect sense. I will say it again, if Gordon is the best player on your team, YOUR TEAM SUCKS!

They know this, and Paxson is out of love with his players. Everyone should be happy about that. Pax and Forman have a realistic view of what they see and I am glad.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

I was being sarcastic.

The Pistons made an offer without having to hear an offer from another team. They wanted Ben Gordon and made an offer.

The Bulls could have made an offer, they choose not to. There's no rule saying that Ben Gordon has to detail his negotiations with the Pistons to the Bulls in order to make an offer. The Pistons made an offer without having to wait for another team to set the bar.

The Bulls could have done the same, they chose not to. They could have been there at 12:01 with an offer for him, they chose not to be.

The fact that Ben Gordon didn't specify what his offer was to make their life easier is irrelevant to the fact that the Bulls refused to make an offer. They said BG was their #1 priority, but if he was, then they would have bid prior to waiting for the Pistons to set the market for him, then asked what the Pistons offer was.

However, BG clearly wasn't a priority for them. So much so that they wouldn't make an offer to him unless they knew the exact target they needed to hit to have a higher offer, and they were too scared to even throw out a number and lose the negotiation (even though that would have meant nothing).

The Pistons, for example, gave Ben Wallace an offer even though the Bulls signed him. They offered him 12 million a year, they were turned down. Oh well, they still made an effort. We did not. We claimed we wanted Ben back, but in the end, we didn't try.

If they really didn't want Ben back or didn't want him back at that price, then that's fine. However, then don't pay lip service to the idea that he's a priority that you want back this summer when you're too scared to even bid

Okay, here it is, they lied, I have been saying this for weeks. When people got so excited about them possibly signing Gordon. When Forman made those statements, I said that we should wait and see what happens.

When Hinrich wasn't moved, Gordon was gone. Period. They kept the better all around player over the dynamic scorer. It was a basketball decision. I knew after draft night Gordon was gone, unless a Hinrich move was pending, Gordon was gone. Why are people surprised? Angry? Sad? Why is that?

In essence, they gave up on Gordon and were not interested. But I believe they wanted Detroit specifically and the league in general to offer him as much as they could, to their own detriment. And I don't blame them, makes perfect sense. I will say it again, if Gordon is the best player on your team, YOUR TEAM SUCKS!

They know this, and Paxson is out of love with his players. Everyone should be happy about that. Pax and Forman have a realistic view of what they see and I am glad.

Stop making up nonsense. Ben has been the bulls best player for all of if not most of the time hes been here. We have been in the playoffs 4 out of 5 and playoff teams don't suck. If his track record sucks, Melo must suck too because he has the same playoff history except he made it to the cf instead of the semis one year. You can go around and spray your anti bg propaganda but the fact of the matter is that no bg supporter says he should be the best player on a team and the pistons didn't pay him the max so he obviously isn't paid as the best player. He got a deng type deal for 5 yrs, I would much rather have BG then Deng. Granted Deng is taller and plays better D, he just happens to be made of glass. We saw how well BG and Salmons did on the wings last year.

 

[TheStig]

dougthonus wrote:

houheffna wrote:

That is not a weak excuse, you don't know what the initial offer is, so you ask. How the heck are they supposed to assume when it comes to millions of dollars?

The games were played by Gordon and his agent. It is what it is.

How did the Pistons ever make an offer without knowing what someone else offered him first?

I don't understand it. They couldn't. Ben Gordon must be a free agent. It's impossible to make an offer to a player without knowing if your offer will be the greatest or accepted.

Therefore, Ben Gordon must still be a free agent!!!

Its Magic. I have never seen a team come out of nowhere and just offer money to the player they want. And that player just take it because it was a good offer. Detroit must be crazy, I mean I thought you play mind games and low ball fas till they can't take it anymore and just give in. Oh well, its just another aw shucks moment for our ownership.

 

[houheffna]

Stop making up nonsense. Ben has been the bulls best player for all of if not most of the time hes been here. We have been in the playoffs 4 out of 5 and playoff teams don't suck. If his track record sucks, Melo must suck too because he has the same playoff history except he made it to the cf instead of the semis one year. You can go around and spray your anti bg propaganda but the fact of the matter is that no bg supporter says he should be the best player on a team and the pistons didn't pay him the max so he obviously isn't paid as the best player. He got a deng type deal for 5 yrs, I would much rather have BG then Deng. Granted Deng is taller and plays better D, he just happens to be made of glass. We saw how well BG and Salmons did on the wings last year.

You are one of those that have to be told the facts of life over and over and over.

What nonsense are you talking about? First Melo is a franchise player, Gordon isn't, and if you think he is, your brain is leaking out of your ears. Karl has been asking for a PG, they got one, and almost got to the finals.

There is no anti BG propaganda, he is not that important. Your second sentence is a dumb ass reason to keep him. Your third sentence is an even dumber reason to keep him. Then you compare him to Anthony.

Again, Paxson WOULD DO THE SAME WITH ALL OF THEM, if he had the chance. The Bulls will not pay the luxury tax for mediocre players and a bad team. If you think playoff teams don't suck, then you are fooling yourself. I have seen some sucky teams make the playoffs. You would much rather have BG than Deng, doesn't work that way, Deng signed that contract 2 years ago, so why are you bitching about it now? Get over it! My goodness man, the idea is to build around Rose, everybody else is expendable! No one on the roster is an allstar, the guy who was once all-nba was picked over Gordon to backup the two guard positions, it was a basketball move, it was also a financial move.

They are trying to become contenders not just mediocre, and they are not even close to being contenders. Again if you think Bosh and Gordon could beat Lebron James, you are kiddng yourselves. I believe they will go after Bosh and Joe Johnson in 2010, just a gut feeling. Joe Johnson is the prototype SG to play with Rose and he is a legitimate all-star. And I believe they want to go get him.

Sorry but this team will change radically over the next few years, and BG was one of the first to go.


Get it, got it, good.