Bulls Offer Deng to Sacramento for Martin?

[houheffna]

Martin gets his hand checked tomorrow, if cleared he may play next week. Injuries is not much of an issue, which is why teams are inquiring about him...

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Martin gets his hand checked tomorrow, if cleared he may play next week. Injuries is not much of an issue, which is why teams are inquiring about him...

You must be happy to final get him back on your fantasy team.

 

[houheffna]

You must be happy to final get him back on your fantasy team.

Yes I am

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Oh, okay. He only averages 24 measly points a game.

Sorry about that colossal error.

lol

TheStig wrote:

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

This seems like a gamble but then again, worth taking the risk.

Both players are fragile and injury prone but when Martin's out there he can average 30 a game in his sleep! I hope we do this.

He's averaging 30 over 5 games. Lets not get carried away here, he has never cracked 25ppg in a full season.

 

[MikeMeraz]

I've always been a fan of Martin, he's a great BG, he's 26 years old, and I've always pictured him on the bulls but never gave it much thought because we had my boy BG.
But this trade would be awesome! I think Martin can be a great player.

But I thought Tyreke Evans was a point guard? Evans is 6-6 so he should be a shooting guard in my mind. If he does play the 1 than I doubt they will do this trade but if he is more of a two than, no doubt they should take this trade. Honestly for some reason I can picture Deng in a Kings uniform-man I think I'm a prophet.B)

 

[houheffna]

I've always been a fan of Martin, he's a great BG, he's 26 years old, and I've always pictured him on the bulls but never gave it much thought because we had my boy BG.
But this trade would be awesome! I think Martin can be a great player.

But I thought Tyreke Evans was a point guard? Evans is 6-6 so he should be a shooting guard in my mind. If he does play the 1 than I doubt they will do this trade but if he is more of a two than, no doubt they should take this trade. Honestly for some reason I can picture Deng in a Kings uniform-man I think I'm a prophet.

Evans is a point guard. I don't know why anyone would put him at any other position. No one heard Stacey King comparing Evans to Michael Ray Richardson earlier in the season? Evans is a beast, with the heart of an assassin.

 

[houheffna]

He's averaging 30 over 5 games. Lets not get carried away here, he has never cracked 25ppg in a full season.

He has improved over each season he has played in ppg though, and he averaged over 24ppg. He is a legit 20ppg guy too. And if the Bulls got him, over the course of a game he is the best guard this team would have offensively since Jordan, and the most efficient easily since Jordan...the problem is he is worse than any guard defensively including Rose or Gordon. Gordon gives effort defensively, Martin doesn't try on that side of the court that much. But he can score his ass off and is amazingly efficient. People on this forum who love those advanced stats in basketball like TS% and PER would love Martin. Defensively though...I haven't seen it.

 

[JimmyBulls]

Nice try at a fleece deal GarPax.

I have to believe GarPax had visions of a 2010 Martin/Johnson, SG/SF combination.

 

[st. park]

seems too good to be true. martin is a ridiculously efficient scorer and i rather have him than shell out a max contract to joe johnson, to be honest.

 

[houheffna]

Johnson is a better player than Martin by quite a bit. Better ballhandler, defender, postgame...bigger, stronger...legit franchise player. I would much rather have Johnson. As Fox Sports put it, Martin is the best of the "no defense" shooting guards (Redd, Gordon, etc.) but Johnson is in another class.

 

[st. park]

I didn't say that Martin was better than Johnson. Martin is currently making about $10 mil/year. How many years does he have left on that contract? I much rather have Martin at that cost than overpay for Johnson at $18 per or whatever.

 

[Diddy1122]

st. park wrote:

I didn't say that Martin was better than Johnson. Martin is currently making about $10 mil/year. How many years does he have left on that contract? I much rather have Martin at that cost than overpay for Johnson at $18 per or whatever.

Not to mention you are getting Martin in the beginning of his prime & you'd be getting Johnson on the back end of his prime.

Personally I think if we don't make a trade this season, we are not getting a top tier FA next season. There's just too many if's. How much will the cap go down? Will Salmons opt in? Does Tyrus get an offer? One of the bigger contracts needs to be shed from this team in order for us to have the opportunity to even offer a max contract, that means Deng or Hinrich.

But I don't think Martin is going anywhere. Evans can play the 1 for sure. He was the primary ballhandler last season at Memphis & was their starting PG from game 11 on & was very very good at it. These 2 can play together & make one hell of a 1-2 punch in the backcourt.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

He's averaging 30 over 5 games. Lets not get carried away here, he has never cracked 25ppg in a full season.

He has improved over each season he has played in ppg though, and he averaged over 24ppg. He is a legit 20ppg guy too. And if the Bulls got him, over the course of a game he is the best guard this team would have offensively since Jordan, and the most efficient easily since Jordan...the problem is he is worse than any guard defensively including Rose or Gordon. Gordon gives effort defensively, Martin doesn't try on that side of the court that much. But he can score his ass off and is amazingly efficient. People on this forum who love those advanced stats in basketball like TS% and PER would love Martin. Defensively though...I haven't seen it.

You took my post out of context, I was responding to someone who said Martin averages 30ppg in his sleep. I am in favor of Martin and would love to have him for Deng.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Johnson is a better player than Martin by quite a bit. Better ballhandler, defender, postgame...bigger, stronger...legit franchise player. I would much rather have Johnson. As Fox Sports put it, Martin is the best of the "no defense" shooting guards (Redd, Gordon, etc.) but Johnson is in another class.

I disagree, I rather have Martin. He is younger and much cheaper. JJ is going for a max or near max deal, I'd rather have Martin, we don't need JJ to create for others when we have Rose around. The huge bonus in this deal would be getting out of Deng's contract but if we could pick him up with our cap space, I take Martin 10 times out of 10. Martin is a better and more efficient scorer, if you can get him to play D, its even better. Martin also stretchs the floor, which is something we desperatly miss without BG here.

 

[houheffna]

I disagree, I rather have Martin. He is younger and much cheaper. JJ is going for a max or near max deal, I'd rather have Martin, we don't need JJ to create for others when we have Rose around. The huge bonus in this deal would be getting out of Deng's contract but if we could pick him up with our cap space, I take Martin 10 times out of 10. Martin is a better and more efficient scorer, if you can get him to play D, its even better. Martin also stretchs the floor, which is something we desperatly miss without BG here.

I am not arguing with the finances at all...sure take Martin...I would be fine with that...Johnson may go for a max deal, Johnson might not get a max deal. But he is a better player than Martin by a good margin and would help Rose in a lot of different ways.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

I disagree, I rather have Martin. He is younger and much cheaper. JJ is going for a max or near max deal, I'd rather have Martin, we don't need JJ to create for others when we have Rose around. The huge bonus in this deal would be getting out of Deng's contract but if we could pick him up with our cap space, I take Martin 10 times out of 10. Martin is a better and more efficient scorer, if you can get him to play D, its even better. Martin also stretchs the floor, which is something we desperatly miss without BG here.

I am not arguing with the finances at all...sure take Martin...I would be fine with that...Johnson may go for a max deal, Johnson might not get a max deal. But he is a better player than Martin by a good margin and would help Rose in a lot of different ways.

JJ is a better player but Martin is a better fit. JJ would take the ball out of Rose's hands way too much and he just isn't that efficient. Plus if you get rid of Deng in the trade and dump salmons or kirk for an expiring you still have max cap space to get a another star player. i don't think it will ever happen but I would even go as far as to include James Johnson or a first to make it happen. It makes us a much better team.

 

[houheffna]

JJ is a better player but Martin is a better fit. JJ would take the ball out of Rose's hands way too much and he just isn't that efficient. Plus if you get rid of Deng in the trade and dump salmons or kirk for an expiring you still have max cap space to get a another star player. i don't think it will ever happen but I would even go as far as to include James Johnson or a first to make it happen. It makes us a much better team.

Joe is a better fit because he plays defense...period. He is a big guard he can play some D. Martin would not get doubled on the wing like Joe Johnson does. Joe is a better ball handler, rebounder, defender who can score. While I think Martin and Johnson would be the best guards this team has seen in a decade, Johnson is the allstar, franchise player/leader this team needs. However, settling for Martin would not be bad...

 

[TheStig]

Man do you overrate Joe Johnson. He is not a franchise player, he is not great and thats why he has never lead a team past the second round. You are buying too much into the hawks record this year. He is already well into if not closing out his prime as Martin hasn't even entered it yet. Rebounding and ball handling are not important things for this team in a sg. So while he may be great at them, its not a skill that will be heavily utilized because if he does control the ball that much, you aren't going to get much out of Rose. Martin does things that this team desperatly needs he shoots threes very well, gets to the line much more and scores much more efficently. All of those things are much more important to the team than ball handling and rebounding out of their sg. The major concern is defense but a lot of players on bad teams just don't try, it would be interesting to see how he does on a good team.

 

[houheffna]

Man do you overrate Joe Johnson. He is not a franchise player, he is not great and thats why he has never lead a team past the second round. You are buying too much into the hawks record this year. He is already well into if not closing out his prime as Martin hasn't even entered it yet. Rebounding and ball handling are not important things for this team in a sg. So while he may be great at them, its not a skill that will be heavily utilized because if he does control the ball that much, you aren't going to get much out of Rose. Martin does things that this team desperatly needs he shoots threes very well, gets to the line much more and scores much more efficently. All of those things are much more important to the team than ball handling and rebounding out of their sg. The major concern is defense but a lot of players on bad teams just don't try, it would be interesting to see how he does on a good team.

Its kind of funny hearing you accuse anybody of overrating a player...something I have accused you of doing for a while now. I can remember arguing with people about whether Joe was better than Gordon...I have spoken well of Johnson and Martin and have said they would be improvements over what we have had over the past decade. I wouldn't care which one they get.

If you say so...I won't cry foul if they don't get Joe Johnson...he is the franchise player for the Atlanta Hawks...they brought him there to be the centerpiece of their team and to build around him. I don't overrate Joe Johnson, you underrate him. Something talked about in the media in recent weeks. Johnson is underrated because of where he plays. Who the hell said anything about him being great?