Bushrod to Right Tackle and Long back to Guard?

Bearly

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Some teams value guards more than other teams but not more than tackles. The idea is that you can find better guards easier than tackles. But that adds to the point, tackles are more important because they are harder to find. It's not like 2 guards and a center are going to block more defenders because you value the position more. Tackles get stretched wide and end up on an island and must defend their opponent one on one.

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RT are not really more valuable than Gs but LTs definitely are. They may be more important but not more coveted. Tackles are that hard to find that RTs are often failed LTs etc that get help and are paid accordingly. Thing is that Kyle's been left alone and is doing well overall. It allows us to do more things that another T would limit us from. The issue is that in our case, we have a bigger drop off in play and scheme with anyone else available at RT and Long at G than we do with Long at RT and someone else at G. I have no problem with Long moving back if he doesn't look better next year but I think it more likely that he moves to LT then back to G though like I said, whatever gets our most effective 5 out there.
 

ClydeLee

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Your style of offense really does fluctuate the idea of what you want as your best asset. For the Saints O style with a lot of quick short passing attacks & going back to more consistent Walsh style Offense you get more value out of that interior 3 being stronger. Though having a guy like Bushrod was great for the Saints because he's been a really good run blocking tackle more than good pass blocker, so he's good for the short game and running wide or screen game.

Basically any not excessively tied to that short pass heavily system, a tackle is going to be more important than a guard.
 

Larsonite

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RT are not really more valuable than Gs but LTs definitely are. They may be more important but not more coveted. Tackles are that hard to find that RTs are often failed LTs etc that get help and are paid accordingly. Thing is that Kyle's been left alone and is doing well overall. It allows us to do more things that another T would limit us from. The issue is that in our case, we have a bigger drop off in play and scheme with anyone else available at RT and Long at G than we do with Long at RT and someone else at G. I have no problem with Long moving back if he doesn't look better next year but I think it more likely that he moves to LT then back to G though like I said, whatever gets our most effective 5 out there.
I totally disagree with you on failed LT move to RT. Robert Gallery was a top 3 pick but moved to LG when he didn't work at LT. He simply didn't have the strength to play the right side.

What i think is confusing you is that LTs who move to the right side do so because they can't handle being left on an island and/or aren't athletic enough to do so. They can be protected a little bit more on the right side because a TE often lines up there and QBs are mostly right handed and can see the pressure.

Fluker of the Chargers was never considered a LT but was widely considered a RT given his ability to maul opponents with his strength. He's failed and now is playing RG.

Tackles don't always translate to guard. Guys who are very tall often struggle when moved inside as they have struggled on the outside. Mike Mayock coined the term "heavy legged waist bender", meaning they can't keep their butt down and over reach, leaving them in a bad position in blocking. This is very true for tall guys. But tall guys have long wing spans which has been shown statistically to be the advantage they need in blocking as a tackle. This is exasperated on the inside as DTs in both 34 and 43 gain leverage and can drive drive them back.

LT is the premium position on the oline because it requires a rare athlete. RT requires a lesser rare athlete but still one who can bend. Guards work in a "phone booth" and can have short arms and be shorter but need to have strength to handle DTs. These positions are not less than the other rather very unique in what is asked of them. Granted a move inside is the next step for failed tackles but it still requires them to be a specific type of player.

Chris Williams is another good example. When he didn't work at LT, because his arms were to short and he was caught out of position, he moved to guard not RT. He was actually a very good athlete but struggled to block in space when ask to pull on the Power O and Sweep. Gabe Carimi should have been a good RT but his leg injury ruined his ability to drop his butt to gain position to block. He failed at guard because he didn't have the strength and mass to hold off DTs. Mills also failed to move inside because he was more of an athlete than a mauler but not good enough at either to make it in the NFL.

Again, these are not less than positions, they are different positions. Some can translate from LT to RT and some can translate inside to guard but that is because they have the traits to do so. Not because the position is less than.


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Larsonite

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Your style of offense really does fluctuate the idea of what you want as your best asset. For the Saints O style with a lot of quick short passing attacks & going back to more consistent Walsh style Offense you get more value out of that interior 3 being stronger. Though having a guy like Bushrod was great for the Saints because he's been a really good run blocking tackle more than good pass blocker, so he's good for the short game and running wide or screen game.

Basically any not excessively tied to that short pass heavily system, a tackle is going to be more important than a guard.
Bushrod is an average LT who was helped by a quick passing game. The saints were never a run oriented team. And they rarely ran outside, let alone to the left. They spread the defense with a west coast offense and ran inside from spread formations. That's why they valued guards so much and why with trestman, we did as well. But we never valued guards over tackles. We just didn't have the opportunity to have great tackles and built our system accordingly.

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JaySix

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Bushrod is not a RT. So, no.

Well he wasnt a LT to start with either.

Edt. My bad, the Saints listed him at LG in the beginning but he didnt actually play as a guard, he got straight in at LT when Brown got hurt...
 

JaySix

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Leno
Slauson
Grasu
Omaneh
Long

That is your best group.

I agree with BFF, Bushrod is done physically and is an emergency option only.
it might be our best group yes, but finding an effective tackle that would allow Long to get back to OG where he is obviously much better would be ideal..

Have to admit I didnt know Bushrod had chronic back problems and obviously that changes things a lot
 

Leon Sandcastle

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Healthy enough to play, yes, not healthy enough to be effective. His back problem is chronic as it was to start the season. If they need him to play because Leno is hurt he will, but it's Leno's job to lose.

Whas up John Fox? Didnt know you posted here.
 

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