Buying An MLB Franchise???

[patg006]

ok, im sure the najority on here agrees with that..
nothing wrong with having high hope on a few of your teams top prospects.. why not talk up players like Baez, Bryant, and Almora all the Baseball people are.
if your a fan of the cubs you should be happy these guys are in your organization and not another's..
id hate to see what youd have to say if they still had a mediocre / low ranked group of prospects..

Nothing wrong with being realistic and grasping that the best that could be hoped for is to have two of this group turn into above average major league players.

You know when I will talk up players like Baez, Bryant and Almora?? When they are playing for the Cubs and performing at an above average level.

Nothing wrong with that.

I'd be, and was, exactly the same when the team had mediocre to low ranked group of prospects because there is no use getting excited about prospects till they are producing at the major league level.

not disagreeing with that statement .. thing is if your a fan you need to at least start the new year with some positive thoughts going into the season with the team and some of their key players with hope that certain core players play the way their capable of and not fall back again, otherwise what the point of being a fan of the team and watching and keeping track of what their doing.. what the point of being on a message board talking about them if all they do is piss you off, might as well just close the book, move onto something else, and wait til they become what you want them to be to gain your interest again.

No you don't. You don't have to lie to yourself and hope that everything goes right the team might win 65 games.

You can be a fan of a team and be realistic about where they are at and understand that this is going to be a completely wasted season and the team has the worst roster in the major leagues.

What you want people to be is bandwagon fans.

Not every fan has to act like a high school cheerleader over their team to still be a true fan.

they've been terrible the last 4 years and if your a true cubs fan you should be upset, but then again you should of been upset the majority of your fanhood with this team.

But not every year that ended in a losing year was because the team didn't even try to field a competitive roster at the major league level.

2009 was a disappointing season for the Cubs with the expectations coming into the season, but even though the team didn't make the playoffs they still won 84 games and used most of the resources available to field a team that many thought would win the World Series. It was about the only time in recent Cubs history where you could feel the team was being run as a team and not as a business.

So to go from that to what is now an obvious cash grab is disappointing and should be disappointing to every Cub fan no matter how many top 100 prospects the team has. Top 100 prospects should not be an excuse or an acceptable consolation prize.

who says were not all pissed off and upset, we just choose not to spend 99% of our posts complaining about something we have no control over..

No. You just spend 99% of your posts having completely unrealistic expectations of the farm system.

And the "you have no control over what happens so don't complain" logic is just dumb.

By that logic, you shouldn't watch any of the games or get happy about them because you have no control over what happens. That logic works both ways.

they make a bad move we complain about it , they make a good move we talk it up..

But that doesn't happen.

They make a bad move and it is still thought a good move or a laundry list of excuses and apologies follows.

They trade for Ian Stewart and it is praised as a good move.

They give away Carlos Zambrano, pay all of his salary and get back the worst pitcher in baseball and it is praised as a good move.

They trade the best pitchers in the organization and get back either an average at best !B or a bunch of lottery tickets and it is praised as a good move.

Going into the third season of the rebuild and not one core piece has been added to the major league roster and in fact many have been removed and you are only supposed to talk about how great everything is.

The entire organization is worse off now than it was three years ago and no one is supposed to say anything about it. Yes the minor league system is a little bit better than it was three years ago but the major league roster is light years worse so that makes the entire organization worse can at the end of the day, the results at the major league level are all that matter.

 

[beckdawg]

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria.... we get it.

 

[chibears55]

I'd be, and was, exactly the same when the team had mediocre to low ranked group of prospects because there is no use getting excited about prospects till they are producing at the major league level.

that fine if that your choice. the kicker is you shouldn't feel its ok then to complain or criticize others for wanting to talk up or about their prospects or other teams prospects because like its your choice not to care yet about them its their choice to care if they want..

You can be a fan of a team and be realistic about where they are at and understand that this is going to be a completely wasted season and the team has the worst roster in the major leagues.

again, that your choice of how you want to go into a baseball season with your favorite team, and others shouldn't be scrutinized for looking for something positive out of a bad team to watch or root for..

No. You just spend 99% of your posts having completely unrealistic expectations of the farm system.

we know that's not true, most of my post are on topic.. yes ive gone off topic, but no not 99% of them are about the prospects..

By that logic, you shouldn't watch any of the games or get happy about them because you have no control over what happens. That logic works both ways.

I don't watch most of their games because I know im going to be upset about the outcome, but when I do watch now its usually to see how certain players are performing.
you act as if you have no desire to watch anyone on this team, so why do you watch and make yourself more angry instead of just doing something else.

They make a bad move and it is still thought a good move or a laundry list of excuses and apologies follows.

those are usually from the posters who are just trying to be the opposite of you.. im sure you know who they are...

What you want people to be is bandwagon fans.

not sure how you can be bandwagon fan of a team that has a history of being losers...
you make yourself seem like a bandwagoner if anyone on here, they been mediocre or worse every year but maybe 9 times in the last 40 years .
so by what you've said , you've only been interested in their seasons 9 times over the years and the other 31 times you didn't care cause their team was crap.

 

[chibears55]

The entire organization is worse off now than it was three years ago and no one is supposed to say anything about it.

well, 3 yrs ago they won 75 games.. so they were 9 games worse last year, I guess that's a big deal ? we have to wait and see how they finish before we can say if their worse or better then those 75 wins..

FYI.. 4 yrs before they won 75 games they were horrible at 66 wins

so, its not like we haven't been here before with this team ....

 

[patg006]

well, 3 yrs ago they won 75 games.. so they were 9 games worse last year, I guess that's a big deal ? we have to wait and see how they finish before we can say if their worse or better then those 75 wins..

But at least that 75 win team had some legitimate major league talent on the roster.

On this roster you don't have one person on the 25 man roster that you can guarantee will be at least an average player at his position. Not one.

Castro was one of the worst SS in baseball last year. Should he be better this year? Yes. Is anyone will to bet $1000 on it though? I wouldn't be surprised if he is closer to last year the rest of his career than his first two years. I don't see the drive in him to be great.

Could Rizzo be better? Of course. But it wouldn't also be a surprise to see another .230ish with low 20's HR season. That sucks out of your 1B.

I don't see Wood missing enough bats to consistently put up the numbers he did last year.

Shark has been better and still has potential, but his results have been average at best.

The ONLY way you could say at the end of this year that the major league team was in better shape no matter how many games they win is if BOTH Baez and Bryant are at the major league level and giving above average production.

That is within the realm of possibility but not a very realistic outcome.

FYI.. 4 yrs before they won 75 games they were horrible at 66 wins

so, its not like we haven't been here before with this team ....

And after that 66 win season, you and a bunch of others would have said there were too many holes on the team to go out and sign a big time FA.

Yet that is exactly what happened and the team went on to win the division two straight years and make the playoffs in back to back seasons for the first time in a century.

But god forbid they try and do that again when you can deliberately lose for three straight seasons to get better draft picks.

 

[patg006]

that fine if that your choice. the kicker is you shouldn't feel its ok then to complain or criticize others for wanting to talk up or about their prospects or other teams prospects because like its your choice not to care yet about them its their choice to care if they want..

But it is ok to criticize and complain about others for pointing out the realistic nature of prospects and the realities of the worst roster in the major leagues?

not sure how you can be bandwagon fan of a team that has a history of being losers...
you make yourself seem like a bandwagoner if anyone on here, they been mediocre or worse every year but maybe 9 times in the last 40 years .
so by what you've said , you've only been interested in their seasons 9 times over the years and the other 31 times you didn't care cause their team was crap.

You couldn't be more inaccurate.

 

[patg006]

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria.... we get it.

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, unicorns, rainbows and puppies.

We get it.

 

[nwfisch]

chibearsfan55 wants people to be optimistic, and that's fine. I've been kicked in the nuts before being optimistic.

 

[patg006]

chibearsfan55 wants people to be optimistic, and that's fine. I've been kicked in the nuts before being optimistic.

Maybe so.

But to me sounds more like people want everyone to be fanboys instead of just fans.

 

[chibears55]

But at least that 75 win team had some legitimate major league talent on the roster.

that's pretty much saying you prefer to be the tallest midget.. wheather the majority of team are cast offs or over priced talent when they suck they suck

Yet that is exactly what happened and the team went on to win the division two straight years and make the playoffs in back to back seasons for the first time in a century.

and then 2 yrs of losing again with basically that same team because they didn't have anything in their system to sustain success on the major league level and they were strapped in payroll because they over paid some FAs and gave out no trade clauses... so they couldn't fix what was being broken down...

But it is ok to criticize and complain about others for pointing out the realistic nature of prospects and the realities of the worst roster in the major leagues?

that's mainly you and a few sox fans.. its not what your saying, its more so hearing about it a billion times with just about every one of your posts..
seriously I think most of us understand all top prospects don't pan out, just like some unheard of guy may surprise us..

most of us know their roster not very good .. we don't need "PAT" to tell us that every single day..
we can have a topic on how the WF grass is green and you will still turn it into rickets is cheap and Epstein sucks lol...

unless your 20 YO pat, the history of the Chicago cubs has basically been a couple good years and twice as many bad years to follow..
all we can do is wait and see what the results are from what they've done the last 2 years..
you agree the minor league system is better and has some promise, were getting closer to seeing some results of t...

 

[chibears55]

chibearsfan55 wants people to be optimistic, and that's fine. I've been kicked in the nuts before being optimistic.

its not about being optimistic my friend, its about giving yourself a reason to follow the team you root for all summer when you know their going to suck..

for me personally.. im interested in the growth of Castillo, rizzo, castro, samardzija, and wood a long with the younger ones in olt, baez, and Bryant..
im going to hope for some surprises to be added to the core by the end of the year..
just like the sox are hoping Abreu is the real deal, there nothing wrong with having some hope...

 

[beckdawg]

Maybe so.

But to me sounds more like people want everyone to be fanboys instead of just fans.

I just want to see you post something, anything really, other than the same bitching about the front office being terrible and the owner being cheap. I'd love to hear literally any other topic from you be it which of the roughly 30% of top 100 prospects who do turn out to be average or above players, Shark being your favorite player and why you think he'd rebound..... I mean anything. All I've seen from you for the past 3-4 months is shitting on anyone who says something remotely positive.

I frankly don't care if you hate every move the front office makes. But if all you do is shit on a team that doesn't make you a fan it makes you a hater. And if you can only say positive things when they are a playoff team that makes you a fair weather fan. You can hold a positive opinion of some aspects of a team and still disagree with the general direction. For example, the Travis Wood trade is a resounding success in any light you want to look at it. Talking about that doesn't mean that you agree with every other move the team has made.

Also, who are these fanboys you're talking about? The highest win total I've seen anyone suggest for the team is in the 70-75 win range which happens to be right around the vegas line. In other words, it's not blatant homerism. No one is even remotely suggesting they are an average team. No one is delusional and suggesting they will make a playoff run. Is 70-75 wins optimistic? Maybe, but it's winning 4 more games than last year on a team who's run differential last year suggested they should be a 70-92 team and that's with their arguably 3 best players having down years(Castro, Shark, Rizzo) as well as numerous others(Barney, Jackson, the majority of the bullpen).

 

[patg006]

I just want to see you post something, anything really, other than the same bitching about the front office being terrible and the owner being cheap.

I have posted plenty about how the major league roster is the worst in baseball and how the 'core' of the team has regressed.

YOU choose to translate that into the owner is cheap and the front office being terrible.

I frankly don't care if you hate every move the front office makes. But if all you do is shit on a team that doesn't make you a fan it makes you a hater. And if you can only say positive things when they are a playoff team that makes you a fair weather fan. You can hold a positive opinion of some aspects of a team and still disagree with the general direction. For example, the Travis Wood trade is a resounding success in any light you want to look at it. Talking about that doesn't mean that you agree with every other move the team has made.

Also, who are these fanboys you're talking about? The highest win total I've seen anyone suggest for the team is in the 70-75 win range which happens to be right around the vegas line.

You clearly don't have the slightest idea how Vegas comes up with their win total.

Here is a hint for you.

It doesn't really mean how many games they think the Cubs will win. Their goal is not to hit the total on the head.

Maybe, but it's winning 4 more games than last year on a team who's run differential last year suggested they should be a 70-92 team and that's with their arguably 3 best players having down years(Castro, Shark, Rizzo) as well as numerous others(Barney, Jackson, the majority of the bullpen).

But without 2 of their 3 best starting pitchers from last year, the closer who was way more productive than expected or should be realistically expected from Jose Veras and their most productive hitter as well.

Fanboys over look those facts.

Fanboys would expect good seasons from Barney and Jackson.

 

[patg006]

its not about being optimistic my friend, its about giving yourself a reason to follow the team you root for all summer when you know their going to suck..

Bullshitting yourself.

Got it.

 

[chibears55]

Bullshitting yourself.

Got it.

you see this right here tells me your either not really a fan of the team or your just on this site to keep going what your pal boyd started and you really have no interest other then that on this site...

 

[patg006]

you see this right here tells me your either not really a fan of the team or your just on this site to keep going what your pal boyd started and you really have no interest other then that on this site...

And this right here tells me you are only interested in hearing fanboy talk about how everything is going to turn out perfect instead of any kind of honest and realistic analysis of where the team is at.

 

[beckdawg]

I have posted plenty about how the major league roster is the worst in baseball and how the 'core' of the team has regressed.

So your implication is that the front office isn't terrible?

You clearly don't have the slightest idea how Vegas comes up with their win total.

Vegas sets a line where people will see action on both sides of it. The point being, if 70 wins is as impossible as you make it out to be there would be few bets on the over and as such they wouldn't make any money unless the cubs actually do win more than that and all the people betting under lose. In other words, if they are expecting lots of action on the under based on a horrible last year they have to set it even lower than they think it will be.

Fanboys would expect good seasons from Barney and Jackson.

Who said good? I said down as in down from their career average.

 

[patg006]

Vegas sets a line where people will see action on both sides of it. The point being, if 70 wins is as impossible as you make it out to be there would be few bets on the over and as such they wouldn't make any money unless the cubs actually do win more than that and all the people betting under lose. In other words, if they are expecting lots of action on the under based on a horrible last year they have to set it even lower than they it will be.

Or they know the Cubs fanbase is full of fanboys and suckers who will still take the over.

Feel free to put your money where your mouth is and lay $1000 on the over in Vegas if it's such a sure thing.

 

[beckdawg]

Or they know the Cubs fanbase is full of fanboys and suckers who will still take the over.

Feel free to put your money where your mouth is and lay $1000 on the over in Vegas if it's such a sure thing.

Where did I say it was a sure thing. I've consistently said i felt it they are a 70-75 win team where vegas IIRC has them at 71 wins. You're the one saying they are a sure thing to win 50-55 games. Surely you should want to go cash in...

 

[patg006]

Where did I say it was a sure thing. I've consistently said i felt it they are a 70-75 win team where vegas IIRC has them at 71 wins. You're the one saying they are a sure thing to win 50-55 games. Surely you should want to go cash in...

Who says I haven't already?

I never said it was a sure thing.

I said I have felt that they would win 50-55 games because the roster is worse this year than it was last year minus Soriano, Garza, Feldman and Gregg and without any clear cut improvements made.