Castillo is now a Mariner

[CSF77]

Not a 40 man player. They have to bump 1 now.

7 Arismendy Alcantara 2B B R 23 5-10 170 Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic $510,000
-- Javier Baez 2B R R 22 6-0 190 Bayamon, Puerto Rico N/A
-- C.J. Edwards SP R R 23 6-3 170 Newberry, SC N/A
71 Gonzalez Germen RP R R 27 6-1 202 La Romana, Dominican Republic N/A
-- Eric Jokisch SP R L 25 6-2 205 Virginia, IL N/A
21 Junior Lake LF R R 25 6-3 215 San Pedro de Macoris, Dominican Republic N/A
-- Rafael Lopez C L R 27 5-9 200 Philadelphia, PA N/A
41 Matt Szczur LF R R 25 6-0 200 Cape May, NJ $508,500
-- Christian Villanueva 3B R R 23 5-11 210 Guadalajara, Mexico N/A

Would guess Jokisch. Lopez is a emergency catcher now. Pitching will always play out. Maybe Villanueva as he has failed to impress sense coming over.

 

[CSF77]

Damn 3372 career minor league AB's. 360 major league AB's. Mostly in the Mets system. I don't expect much here. He seems the prototypical AAAA typecast.

 

[beckdawg]

Not a 40 man player. They have to bump 1 now.

7 Arismendy Alcantara 2B B R 23 5-10 170 Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic $510,000
-- Javier Baez 2B R R 22 6-0 190 Bayamon, Puerto Rico N/A
-- C.J. Edwards SP R R 23 6-3 170 Newberry, SC N/A
71 Gonzalez Germen RP R R 27 6-1 202 La Romana, Dominican Republic N/A
-- Eric Jokisch SP R L 25 6-2 205 Virginia, IL N/A
21 Junior Lake LF R R 25 6-3 215 San Pedro de Macoris, Dominican Republic N/A
-- Rafael Lopez C L R 27 5-9 200 Philadelphia, PA N/A
41 Matt Szczur LF R R 25 6-0 200 Cape May, NJ $508,500
-- Christian Villanueva 3B R R 23 5-11 210 Guadalajara, Mexico N/A

Would guess Jokisch. Lopez is a emergency catcher now. Pitching will always play out. Maybe Villanueva as he has failed to impress sense coming over.

They are at 39 after the Baxter callup.

20 pitchers(excluding Turner), 3 catchers, 9 IF(excluding olt), 7 OF
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=chc

 

[Shawon0Meter]

Seattle's catcher is terrible offensively, I was hoping they were a little more desperate

I'm OK with this trade though, especially if Medina is in Chicago soon. It doesn't take much to be better than the worst arm in this bullpen

 

[TL1961]

I have to believe there's more to this trade. Possibly IFA slot money or a comp pick the M's have because you typically don't trade starting players which Castillo will be for the M's for a bullpen piece unless it's a dominant closer which he doesn't appear to be.

Castillo is a below average defensive player at a position where defense is a priority, and he is hitting .163. He's not as valuable as we want him to be.

 

[TL1961]

He can start for most teams. He's a career .252/.320/.398 hitter. Last year the average C was .244/.309/.379. Now clearly you probably knock him down some because framing is so in vogue right now but to say he's a third string catcher is honestly laughable. Mike Zunino the M's current starter is hitting .179/.241/.358. The year prior to that he hit .199/.254/.404. The year prior to that he hit .214/.290/.329. Castillo is going to be an every day player(or what that amounts for a starting C) for them.

Now keep in mind I'm not saying they should have got Walker in this deal. But to me this is more a case of them finally giving in on 3 C's on a roster being silly rather than them getting good value in return. If Medina had been pitching like he was the previous year then it's a more interesting conversation. But his underlying numbers are down substantially and his velocity is down which should scare any fan because that often leads to arm surgery.

He would not start for most teams.

Several teams with needs at catcher had no interest. You are overvaluing him by a ton.

 

[beckdawg]

Castillo is a below average defensive player at a position where defense is a priority, and he is hitting .163. He's not as valuable as we want him to be.

This is factually inaccurate. He has an above average arm and his blocking is fine. Where he lacks is framing. As for your next comment....

Rangers - Robinson Chirinos(.184/.304/.395), Carlos Corporan(.200/.300/.300)
Angels - Carlos Perez(.250/.241/.393), Drew Butera(.190/.190/.190), Chris Iannetta(.156/.241/.234)
Astros - Jason Castro(.214/.291/.388), Hank Conger(.156/.325/.344)
Dbacks- Gerald Laird(.000/.000/.000), Jordan Pacheco(.217/.315/.348), Tuffy Gosewisch(.228/.269/.277)
Indians - Yan Gomes(out for the year), Brett Hayes(.172/.226/.483), Roberto Perez(.169/.299/.324)
Mariners - Mike Zunino(.179/.241/.358), Jesus Sucre(.179/.241/.358)
Marlins - J.T. Realmuto(.227/.267/.351), Jhonatan Solano(.100/.182/.200), Jeff Mathis(.000/.167/.000), Jarrod Saltalamacchia(.069/.182/.207)
Rays - Bobby Wilson(.189/.268/.189), Rene Rivera(.143/.189/.238)
Red Sox - Ryan Hanigan(.222/.354/.315), Blake Swihart(.179/.200/.256), Sandy Leon(.161/.257/.161)
White Sox - Geovany Soto(.170/.204/.298), Tyler Flowers(.208/.260/.306)

That's 10 teams that Castillo's career .252/.320/.398 would improve. There's likely others where he wouldn't play 400-500 PAs but he would still offer a nice second option at 200-300 PAs. Some teams will value framing more(obviously the cubs did). I'm not saying he should net them a top 100 prospect. But frankly, I think you'd have to argue pretty hard to say that Medina is any kind of get. He's arguably a broken reliever they hope they can get right.

Edit: want to clarify that broken reliever comment. By that I mean he's not someone they can immediately plug into the bullpen. His velocity is down and apparently the cubs think it's mechanical rather than a serious injury. He's also someone who's got potential command concerns.

 

[CSF77]

CAREER #'S......CS%...FLD%...PB/162...RF

Castillo...............30%....988......11.40......7.64

Ross..................37%....991.......10.66.....8.14

Montero..............31%....990........8.25......7.94

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Got a good young pitcher for a scrub catcher who cant call a game.

Highway robbery. Well done, Boy Blunder.......

 

[TL1961]

This is factually inaccurate. He has an above average arm and his blocking is fine. Where he lacks is framing. As for your next comment....

Rangers - Robinson Chirinos(.184/.304/.395), Carlos Corporan(.200/.300/.300)
Angels - Carlos Perez(.250/.241/.393), Drew Butera(.190/.190/.190), Chris Iannetta(.156/.241/.234)
Astros - Jason Castro(.214/.291/.388), Hank Conger(.156/.325/.344)
Dbacks- Gerald Laird(.000/.000/.000), Jordan Pacheco(.217/.315/.348), Tuffy Gosewisch(.228/.269/.277)
Indians - Yan Gomes(out for the year), Brett Hayes(.172/.226/.483), Roberto Perez(.169/.299/.324)
Mariners - Mike Zunino(.179/.241/.358), Jesus Sucre(.179/.241/.358)
Marlins - J.T. Realmuto(.227/.267/.351), Jhonatan Solano(.100/.182/.200), Jeff Mathis(.000/.167/.000), Jarrod Saltalamacchia(.069/.182/.207)
Rays - Bobby Wilson(.189/.268/.189), Rene Rivera(.143/.189/.238)
Red Sox - Ryan Hanigan(.222/.354/.315), Blake Swihart(.179/.200/.256), Sandy Leon(.161/.257/.161)
White Sox - Geovany Soto(.170/.204/.298), Tyler Flowers(.208/.260/.306)

That's 10 teams that Castillo's career .252/.320/.398 would improve. There's likely others where he wouldn't play 400-500 PAs but he would still offer a nice second option at 200-300 PAs. Some teams will value framing more(obviously the cubs did). I'm not saying he should net them a top 100 prospect. But frankly, I think you'd have to argue pretty hard to say that Medina is any kind of get. He's arguably a broken reliever they hope they can get right.

Edit: want to clarify that broken reliever comment. By that I mean he's not someone they can immediately plug into the bullpen. His velocity is down and apparently the cubs think it's mechanical rather than a serious injury. He's also someone who's got potential command concerns.

You are arguing that he IS valuable by saying why you think he SHOULD BE valuable.

But the fact is, teams did not value him. It's like saying your used sofa is "worth $500", but nobody wants to pay more than $100 for it.

The bottom line is that those teams with the catchers they have, hitting poorly, didn't value Castillo's combination of poor pitch framing and halfway decent offense.

And for the hundreth time, throwing to second is far less important than pitch framing these days when it comes to defense. So while he may be god at it, it pales in comparison.

You can say over and over that he was valuable. But the facts have shown otherwise. Nobody wanted him.

 

[TL1961]

CAREER #'S......CS%...FLD%...PB/162...RF

Castillo...............30%....988......11.40......7.64

Ross..................37%....991.......10.66.....8.14

Montero..............31%....990........8.25......7.94

So, it seems that good rate of throwing out runners was good enough for third....on his own team.

 

[CSF77]

Catchers ERA:
2015: Ross 2.75, Montero 4.02, Castillo: 5.91
2014: Whiteside: 3.23,Baker: 3.44, Castillo: 4.24
2013: Castillo: 4.05 Navarro: 4.06
2012: Recker: 3.20, Lali: 4.05, Soto: 4.20, Clevenger: 4.55, Hill 4.76, Castillo: 4.89
2011: Hill 4.31,Soto 4.33, Clevenger 4.50,Castillo 5.97
2010: Hill 4.23, Soto 4.28, Castillo 4.30

Common theme is he has been at the bottom every year on CERA. Except for 2013 which was his best year over all by far.

He is very over rated as a catcher.

 

[CSF77]

So, it seems that good rate of throwing out runners was good enough for third....on his own team.

He is last in just about every metric u come up with.

The bottom liner he is a catcher first not a hitter first. Peeps need to learn that fact. That is why Schwarber most likely will end up not a catcher. It is not about tossing guys out. It has more to do with calling games and making the pitching staff better. Every thing else adds to this not supersedes it.

Get used to it. That is the way the game is changing and it is the right change. There are plenty of power positions out there. Up the middle needs to be D first.

 

[beckdawg]

You can say over and over that he was valuable. But the facts have shown otherwise. Nobody wanted him.

Well first off we have no idea what kind of offers they got. It's entirely possible teams did offer something different and they love Medina for whatever reason. Secondly, we have no idea what type of offers were out there in the off season. It's entirely possible they over played their hand in the off season holding out for more than they could get. I honestly think now isn't the best time to try and get value out of a player anyways that's why teams generally deal near the deadline.

Regardless, what teams ultimately are willing to pay for him doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is what Medina is. Unless he turns out to be a premium set up guy or a closer, you are giving at worst a decent back up catcher for a bullpen guy and it's not even a guy who helps you immediately which honestly they need. They are paying Ross $2.5 mil this year and next year. You can argue Ross has intangibles and what not but that would have been an extra $5 mil they could have spent on a reliever. Instead of Motte at $4.5 mil they could have had someone like Francisco Rodriguez(2 years $13 mil) potentially for roughly $3.5 mil more and Rodriguez would have been the clear choice. In other words, if you're just getting whatever teams will give you then what was the point in holding onto Castillo into the season? Surely they could have gotten a similar value in the offseason for Castillo and possibly added a RP who might actually have helped from the start of the year until now.

Like I said, I wasn't expecting a top 100 prospect or anything for Castillo. I just really don't get the thought process. I never understood why they signed Ross. Once that happened, I really didn't understand the idea behind running 3 catchers unless you were going to get really good value later out of Castillo in a trade. Now that Castillo is traded I think you'd have a hard time arguing that Medina is really good value at this point. Maybe he ultimately becomes a decent reliever. But for my money I would have just run Castillo as the back up behind Montero if you are so dead set on framing and then use the money they could have spent on a more established reliever rather than hoping to reclaim someone like Motte.

 

[beckdawg]

He is last in just about every metric u come up with.

The bottom liner he is a catcher first not a hitter first. Peeps need to learn that fact. That is why Schwarber most likely will end up not a catcher. It is not about tossing guys out. It has more to do with calling games and making the pitching staff better. Every thing else adds to this not supersedes it.

Get used to it. That is the way the game is changing and it is the right change. There are plenty of power positions out there. Up the middle needs to be D first.

Defensive metrics would argue differently. Castillo was 4th in fangraphs defensive numbers last season.

 

[CSF77]

Like I said, I wasn't expecting a top 100 prospect or anything for Castillo. I just really don't get the thought process. I never understood why they signed Ross.

They bought into pitch framing and got to of the best guys in the league at it. Castillo was one of the league worst at it.

Again this ties into making the staff better. Castillo was not. CERA just points that he has been at the bottom every year with his counter parts in managing the same pitchers.

The thing is Theo and Jed would not have pulled these deals if they felt Castillo was the guy they wanted to manage their pitching staff. They got 2 catchers. Not 1. So that meant that they did not even want him to back up but did not want to lose him for nothing either.

So it looks like they got a meh return but in reality they got something when they were faced with losing him for nothing.

So in view of it I'm glad they got something. His curve looks nasty. He lost some MPH. To be honest I would try to convert him into a starter this year. That curve can shut down a RH batter. He has a 2 seem and a 4 seam. Work in a change and see if he can work on command/extending himself.

 

[beckdawg]

They bought into pitch framing and got to of the best guys in the league at it. Castillo was one of the league worst at it.

Again this ties into making the staff better. Castillo was not. CERA just points that he has been at the bottom every year with his counter parts in managing the same pitchers.

The thing is Theo and Jed would not have pulled these deals if they felt Castillo was the guy they wanted to manage their pitching staff. They got 2 catchers. Not 1. So that meant that they did not even want him to back up but did not want to lose him for nothing either.

So it looks like they got a meh return but in reality they got something when they were faced with losing him for nothing.

So in view of it I'm glad they got something. His curve looks nasty. He lost some MPH. To be honest I would try to convert him into a starter this year. That curve can shut down a RH batter. He has a 2 seem and a 4 seam. Work in a change and see if he can work on command/extending himself.

Well first of all, you're not converting Medina into a starter. He has no where near the command to make that work. He wouldn't last 4 innings most games with a 4-5 bb/9. As for framing, I get the concept. I just don't get the execution of this process. If Castillo isn't the guy today he wasn't the guy in December. If Castillo is too valuable to trade in December I find the return he brought today quite lacking.

 

[CSF77]

Well first of all, you're not converting Medina into a starter. He has no where near the command to make that work. He wouldn't last 4 innings most games with a 4-5 bb/9. As for framing, I get the concept. I just don't get the execution of this process. If Castillo isn't the guy today he wasn't the guy in December. If Castillo is too valuable to trade in December I find the return he brought today quite lacking.

Well, Maybe it is because Castillo's value is lacking also.

 

[beckdawg]

Well, Maybe it is because Castillo's value is lacking also.

Maybe it was. But why play the ruse like they would get more later? As fans, we're never going to know the full extent of a players value. Maybe my view isn't comparable to what was out there. But the front office does know his value around the league and if this is what Castillo is worth I find it hard to believe waiting 2 months into the season elevated Castillo's value so they could get someone like Medina.

Either way, it's hard for me to get excited about trading at worst a major league back up C for a reliever who has a career 4.93 bb/9 and has seen his velocity fall. Let's call Medina what he is, a lottery ticket they are hoping they can fix similar to Strop. Even if he does become Strop-like, Strop's walk issues often lead to inconsistency out of him and ultimately why I'm not sure I trust him and Medina's issues are worse there.

 

[CSF77]

Maybe it was. But why play the ruse like they would get more later? As fans, we're never going to know the full extent of a players value. Maybe my view isn't comparable to what was out there. But the front office does know his value around the league and if this is what Castillo is worth I find it hard to believe waiting 2 months into the season elevated Castillo's value so they could get someone like Medina.

Either way, it's hard for me to get excited about trading at worst a major league back up C for a reliever who has a career 4.93 bb/9 and has seen his velocity fall. Let's call Medina what he is, a lottery ticket they are hoping they can fix similar to Strop. Even if he does become Strop-like, Strop's walk issues often lead to inconsistency out of him and ultimately why I'm not sure I trust him and Medina's issues are worse there.

What made me disappointed was bringing Baxter up instead of Andreoli. All it shows me is they are going to stick it out with Cog's in LF vs trying to add speed to the line up. Cog's give very little value to the line up. Sure he has hit a few HR's but right now he is a 1 trick pony at that. Adding a element like speed to the 9 spot could have more impact on the line up.

But Baxter is the classic filler bat. Looking over his stats he is a clone of Cogs. Lacks power for a corner OF. That was a wasted move.

I don't agree with every decision they make. That is for sure. The way they have been handling LF this year is a joke. They could have trying to commit to Alcantara. Maybe he would have had better results with constant play vs being jumbled around. So I don't agree with that. Baez needed to fix his approach. Seems like he has. Why they are not bumping him up? Well seems like they are committed to Castro/Russell as their MI now. Why they are not trying to move Baez to another spots keeping him at 2B/SS? Again a head scratchier.

In view of this removing a 3rd string catcher? To be honest Ross is better. Sure he is older but back up catchers are always easy to obtain in the off season and a whole bunch cheaper than Castillo's arb price.

Over all this move did not bother me. The return was not exciting but we are talking about a 3rd string guy that has suspect catching skills.