"caused pressures" rate suggests OL more to blame for pass pro issues than Fields

[Washington]

The last paragraph is easy to explain, those former players just never graded out well. Shelton, Bates have a history of performing better. Whitehair hasn’t been good in several years but Bates & Shelton have a track record of being average to slightly above average. I don’t know anything about Pryor. This doesn’t mean the new players are locks to be an upgrade; they could get injured or also not be 100% all year. I’m really more worried about Jenkins staying healthy and Davis bouncing back than the C position.

Bates played a whopping 35 snaps last year!

 

[bamainatlanta]

Bates played a whopping 35 snaps last year!

Good job just using one year.

 

[Myk]

Different play calling?

Highlights, amazing. I can tell when someone is blowing smoke up my ass.
Why when I search all Bagent passes I get videos for every pass in every game that aren't hiding behind highlights to sugar coat it? It was actually easier than finding highlights so you had to try for that.

It is amazing what you think goes on with all QBs, like every UDFA out there is given the freedom to call his own plays that is only reserved for rare GOATs.

You failed to explain why Fields couldn't throw to a blind spot behind the line so Getsy couldn't call those plays like he did with Bagent. Maybe he did suck at it so Getsy was forced to call plays that were looking for bigger gains.
But I don't see how when you can take any backup QB and hide them behind quick dump offs that any QB couldn't do the same. Maybe it could happen like that but you refuse to explain it so I can comprehend how it is possible a QB can't throw to a blind spot 5-10yds away to a player who was standing there before the play and still standing still when the ball is thrown.

And none of this has to do with half the interior going one direction, the other half of the interior going the other direction leaving the A untouched. Even if Fields was calling the wrong things that wouldn't have the oline doing 2 different things.
Unless you can somehow pin that on Fields it's not anything he did because the play was blown as soon as the ball was snapped. It could've been saved by the olineman who double teamed sliding over to the A but it wasn't. This happened many times.

Fields caused his own problems with lack of anticipation but he did not cause all the oline problems. And neither Bagent or Fields are responsible for the plays that were called down to them. This is not the 1940s.

Our only hope is that the oline was all Getsy because we have the same oline coach. Thankfully if it is the oline coach Williams has the mobility and college experience with bad protection to survive the season.

I just picked out a random week and was able to find it poking random spots in the video, because it was happening constantly.

 

[knoxville7]

Yes 200 yards passing is productive when you're an undrafted free agent QB from Division II college.

Bagent over achieved relative to his rookie undrafted status why is this so hard for you to understand?

now youre moving the goalposts. that is not what you stated in your last post. you stated, "bagent was productive."

i then show you how he was not productive, to which you try to move the goalposts to, "he was productive for an undrafted rookie" and try to make it sound like im the one being dense...when that is actually you in this instance

 

[Spitta Andretti]

We'll find out when the season comes.

 

[bears51/40]

Sort of figured this would turn into a Fields thread but I think the OL is more interesting and relevant. Fields had a negative impact on pass pro, and I don't think anyone would say otherwise, but the OL had major issues of its own that Fields' departure is not going to resolve. What we see here is the OL caused pressures at the 30th worst rate in the league - that's explicitly on the OL. If it's because Fields held the ball too long, then we should talk about Caleb holding the ball too long also.

I do think Caleb's pocket presence should help prevent pressures turning into sacks.

Re: some of the posts about the OL:
I get wary about falling into the trap of "things will be better this year because players were hurt last year." Dudes are gonna get hurt this year too, that's the nature of the game. The question there is, did we improve the depth? The only OT addition is an injured rookie, so it's likely Borom is still going to see snaps in 24.

I'm also wary about assuming Shelton, Bates, and Pryor will be better than Patrick, Feeney, and Whitehair. It feels more like a wash than an improvement, but I'd be curious to hear if people have evidence/reasoning for why it will be an improvement. "It can't be any worse, so change is improvement" is just a feeling borne of the frustration of watching poor performance. It doesn't speak to the ability or quality of the new guys.

I don't think Fields vs Williams holding the ball to long is an apples-to -apples argument, but since this is mostly about the OL let's get back to that.

I believe Colman Shelton will be the Bears new starting C and I think Bear fans don't see just how consistent he was for the Rams last year especially in the run game. When the Rams made their late season push for the playoffs the running game led the way for them, and their interior line was a force with Shelton right in the middle of it all. He started all 17 games as the only holdover interior starter from 2022 and it took a while for Shelton and his guards Avila/Dotson to gel. While by the end of the season Dotson was the Rams best run blocker and Avila was their best overall lineman, Shelton was the most consistent from start to finish. I don't think it would surprise anyone if Bates is the opening day starter at right guard over Davis and when he gets healthy Amegadjie may end up starting his career at RG by the end of the season.

 

[dbldrew]

The most damning thing I saw from last year was Justin Fields being sacked 24 times in 5 games vs only 5 times in 4 games for Tyson Bagent. I'm still waiting for someone to explain that disparity.

It's not complicated, Fields was extremely slow to process and he ended up holding onto the ball for an eternity and ended up eating a lot of sacks because of it.

Bagent could process and get rid of the ball quickly so didn't eat as many sacks. Unfortunately for Bagent he didn't have the arm talent to make all the throws..

Hopefully CW can do both and then we can all just give up on the dead horse that is the Fields argument

 

[Myk]

We'll find out when the season comes.

Hopefully not. Hopefully there have been enough changes to never find out again. Mainly we have 2 centers instead of Whitehair.

 

[Anytime23]

A quarterback can help his offensive line...And if the offensive line is less-than-stellar, that help becomes all the more vital.

And JF was not above throwing picks even when the protection was adequate.

of course he can help them but bad OL play is bad OL play. People have gotten a little too comfortable putting all of the teams struggles on a player that is no longer here.

Not sure why this second point is mentioned but thanks for it, I guess

 

[SugarWalls]

of course he can help them but bad OL play is bad OL play. People have gotten a little too comfortable putting all of the teams struggles on a player that is no longer here.

Not sure why this second point is mentioned but thanks for it, I guess

Didn’t you hear they signed bates and Shelton who are currently bare knuckle boxing in training camp for starting center reps? Problem solved

 

[zabavka]

View attachment 38980

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Now where have we heard this story before...

 

[ILoveDick]

Now where have we heard this story before...

Evidently, Pittsburgh's o-line sucks, their coaches suck, and no WRs can get open.

 

[Anytime23]

now youre moving the goalposts. that is not what you stated in your last post. you stated, "bagent was productive."

i then show you how he was not productive, to which you try to move the goalposts to, "he was productive for an undrafted rookie" and try to make it sound like im the one being dense...when that is actually you in this instance

Squirmy piggy

 

[modo]

The oline sucked...Justin Fields didn't progress as far as the Bears hoped....

JF is gone. The oline got rid of the worst player, but is still suspect.

 

[Myk]

The Bears where fans can think they pick the best 52 blameless players every year and the worst 1 player 48 times in a row for 40 years.
It's not the coaches. It's not the players. It's just the QB who sucks.

The oline sucking doesn't keep Fields from sucking.
Our coaches can suck amidst all of the suckage too, if they were good they would be able to pick better players or at least train them.

Guess what? When you're worse than the Browns odds are everyone on the team can suck.

And if you think letting a defender run up the middle untouched is great oline play or a good plan by an OC you probably suck as a fan.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Not that this guy is the end-all be-all of evaluating QB play, but listen to what he has to say about Caleb's pocket presence. It should start at 7:39 where he starts to talk about it.

I read that as you were saying Bagent had elite pocket awareness.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

For those that are so hung up on the offensive line and more specifically the left tackle and why the Chicago Bears didn't draft a new one at number 9.

Please tell me why you wanted a rookie left tackle protecting Caleb Williams.

Oh the irony.

 

[Nelly]

I read that as you were saying Bagent had elite pocket awareness.

Oh, no! Caleb.

 

[BearClaw55]

Caused Pressure Rate for 2023 Offenses

Can we learn something from how often offensive pressure is caused by a blown block? The Arizona offensive line says yes.

ftnfantasy.com

I don't know what this site's source is but the numbers (if trustworthy) are interesting / concerning.
"Caused pressures" = pressures attributed to an OL fuckup
"Uncaused pressures" = OL did their job but there was still a pressure

Bears overall pressure rate: ranked 30th.
Bears caused pressures rate: ranked 30th.
Bears uncaused pressures rate: ranked 24th.
Bears % of total pressures that were caused by the OL: ranked 5th

This would suggest the bears had one of the worst pass blocking OL units in the league. When they did their job, the rest of the team (let's name names: Fields) was still bad at preventing pressures, but not as bad as the OL.
Thought it's noteworthy to share because of the debate around how the OL should be better without Fields. This would suggest the OL will be a major issue regardless of the QB change.

Hopefully we see some improvement this year, but even if the stopgaps play alright the contracts are short term. Retooling the iOL is looking like priority 1 for next off-season (maybe 1b behind edge rusher). I think a good goal for 2024 is just hoping the team can figure out how to handle obvious blitzes and basic stunts, and the C has a competent anchor. That shit has made me apoplectic the past few years.

I’m still trying to figure out how Tyson Bagent an un-drafted rookie was sacked only at a rate of 1.5 sacks a game (4 games) and a 3 year QB was sacked at a rate of 4 to 5 sacks a game? It’s not like the OC cut down the amount of pass plays called for Bagent as he called for Fields. The oline wasn’t top-tier, more middle-tier but they weren’t as bad as those numbers looked when Fields played.

 

[Myk]

I’m still trying to figure out how Tyson Bagent an un-drafted rookie was sacked only at a rate of 1.5 sacks a game (4 games) and a 3 year QB was sacked at a rate of 4 to 5 sacks a game? It’s not like the OC cut down the amount of pass plays called for Bagent as he called for Fields. The oline wasn’t top-tier, more middle-tier but they weren’t as bad as those numbers looked when Fields played.

It looked exactly like that to me. Maybe not the amount of "passes" but the amount of yards desired per pass.

Look at the O'Sullivan video I posted. The oline was pretty bad to be able to do that, and they did it in almost every game. I think I remember MJY calling it out and people defending it as a good play design Fields couldn't execute. So maybe it was a Getsy design problem, but why was he calling it for his slow to throw QB?
As O'Sullivan said, you don't do that, if you are letting a free runner come it's on the outside not straight up the middle.
And the thing is since it was the oline leaving a free runner in the middle to double team the next guy there was absolutely no reason to have a free runner even if it was by design. Whitehair would've done more good falling down on the field for the middle to trip over.
Getsy or the oline, someone sucked pretty big.