CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bosh

Fred

New member
Joined:
Mar 29, 2009
Posts:
982
Liked Posts:
7
1. "I would definitely love to play with Chris Bosh," James said during the Eastern Conference All-Star team's media session. "Being around him last summer (in the Olympics), I got to see how smart he is. His basketball IQ is unbelievable. He's a very, very good player."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...lebron_james_big_on_chris_bosh_as_potent.html

2. "All indications are James will make multiple visits once free agency begins July 1. Persistent whispers continue that Hawks All-Star guard Joe Johnson wants to commit to the Bulls early."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...-bits-bulls-chicago--20100623,0,5963539.story

3. I don't want the Bulls to commit to Johnson before Bosh.

4. I'll wait to see how our Management team handles this situation before I start sending in apology letters and "I love your Jerry" notes like so many fans seem to be doing. ForPaxDorf absolutely deserves to be commended for trading Hinrich and ending the Knicks sole advantage over us (The ability to sign 2 max players). However, it would make no sense to me whatsoever to commit to Joe Johnson before Bosh commits to anyone.

5. Obviously, Lebron is all that matters. Sign him, and I could care less if Bosh or Johnson come. I just don't want the Bulls to commit early to Johnson. If signing Bosh makes it more likely James comes here, you do whatever it takes to get Bosh.

Here is the Bosh appearance on Mike and Mike that we refer to. Interesting listen...I'd like to hear your take.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?id=5319526&autoplay=1&callsign=ESPNRADIO
 

TheStig

New member
Joined:
Apr 5, 2009
Posts:
3,636
Liked Posts:
38
Why does Mark keep calling Loul Deng a 18 and 9 player. He's not. The guy put up 17.6 and 7.3 with 38mpg with no notable backup for most of the year. Deng's numbers are as inflated as Lee's are in Ny. On no other team is the guy gonna be a clear cut #2 option. That being said, I think Deng is underrated but he is not an above average offensive player. He can't create his own shot, he can't shoot threes and he only scores on opportunity buckets (open jumpers, cuts and putbacks).
 

J-Mart

New member
Joined:
Mar 29, 2009
Posts:
289
Liked Posts:
1
I see both points on the issue but Fred I think you are worrying a bit much. I usually haven't trusted management in the past but with the moves they have been making lately, you have to put faith in them. They have been making the right moves in order to get themselves in this situation and I have faith they will do everything in there power to try and make the best situation possible happen. Every time I have doubted them in the past few months they have proved me wrong, I expect the same will happen here. For once I can actually believe they know what they are doing.

I also believe they have more information than we do and if for some odd reason they locked up JJ right away, I would imagine it is because Bosh already told us he would not be coming here. The Bulls are going for the big prize, they are not stupid enough to not go for it considering how we are the favorites to do so.
 

Shakes

Iconoclast
Joined:
Apr 22, 2009
Posts:
3,857
Liked Posts:
142
TheStig wrote:
The guy put up 17.6 and 7.3 with 38mpg with no notable backup for most of the year. Deng's numbers are as inflated as Lee's are in Ny.

He also put up 19/7 on a 49 win team. Given last year he scored at his career average rate I don't think his numbers from last year are inflated at all. Obviously he wont put them up next year if we sign LeBron, but there's no reason at all he can't put up similar numbers to last year on some other team.

And I agree completely with Fred, we should go hard after Bosh and not touch Johnson or Amare unless we have to.
 

TheStig

New member
Joined:
Apr 5, 2009
Posts:
3,636
Liked Posts:
38
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
The guy put up 17.6 and 7.3 with 38mpg with no notable backup for most of the year. Deng's numbers are as inflated as Lee's are in Ny.

He also put up 19/7 on a 49 win team. Given last year he scored at his career average rate I don't think his numbers from last year are inflated at all. Obviously he wont put them up next year if we sign LeBron, but there's no reason at all he can't put up similar numbers to last year on some other team.

And I agree completely with Fred, we should go hard after Bosh and not touch Johnson or Amare unless we have to.

19 and 7 was a career high, he is a 16/6 guy over his career as a second option. All of his numbers are inflated. Do you really see him being a 2nd ption on any other playoff team?
 

Shakes

Iconoclast
Joined:
Apr 22, 2009
Posts:
3,857
Liked Posts:
142
TheStig wrote:
19 and 7 was a career high, he is a 16/6 guy over his career as a second option. All of his numbers are inflated. Do you really see him being a 2nd ption on any other playoff team?

There are plenty of other teams where he could be. If the Orlando deal goes through, he'd be their second option.
 

pinkizdead

New member
Joined:
Mar 30, 2009
Posts:
3,692
Liked Posts:
131
Location:
south loop
Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

are the lanes open? do they ahve a good pg? if you have a spot up shoter at the 2, a pf/c who can hit a shot, an a pg who can shoot a 3, deng can be a decent player.
 

Shakes

Iconoclast
Joined:
Apr 22, 2009
Posts:
3,857
Liked Posts:
142
Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

Although I have to disagree with Fred on a couple of points:

We're not ahead of NY because of the lottery and Rose. Noah/Lopez/Deng + 2x max would still be far better than Gallinari/Chandler + 2x max.

Also dumping salary isn't as simple as he makes out. Hinrich cost us the 17th pick in a weak draft to to dump. NY had to pay a future first and a pick swap to dump Jefferies who is paid less. It's not just that we've dumped salary, it's how we've managed to dump it all without giving up anything else of value (and maintaining a decent team at the same time).
 

TheStig

New member
Joined:
Apr 5, 2009
Posts:
3,636
Liked Posts:
38
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
19 and 7 was a career high, he is a 16/6 guy over his career as a second option. All of his numbers are inflated. Do you really see him being a 2nd ption on any other playoff team?

There are plenty of other teams where he could be. If the Orlando deal goes through, he'd be their second option.
If by 2nd you mean 5th sure. Nelson, Carter, Lewis and Howard all are better offensive players. He is not a bad player. He is good defender and rebounder but his offensive numbers are inflated, he is average or slightly above average offensively.
 

clonetrooper264

Retired Bandwagon Mod
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
Posts:
23,602
Liked Posts:
7,413
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  2. Golden State Warriors
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

Shakes wrote:
Although I have to disagree with Fred on a couple of points:

We're not ahead of NY because of the lottery and Rose. Noah/Lopez/Deng + 2x max would still be far better than Gallinari/Chandler + 2x max.

Also dumping salary isn't as simple as he makes out. Hinrich cost us the 17th pick in a weak draft to to dump. NY had to pay a future first and a pick swap to dump Jefferies who is paid less. It's not just that we've dumped salary, it's how we've managed to dump it all without giving up anything else of value (and maintaining a decent team at the same time).
I was under the impression that this was a strong draft.
 

Shakes

Iconoclast
Joined:
Apr 22, 2009
Posts:
3,857
Liked Posts:
142
TheStig wrote:
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
19 and 7 was a career high, he is a 16/6 guy over his career as a second option. All of his numbers are inflated. Do you really see him being a 2nd ption on any other playoff team?

There are plenty of other teams where he could be. If the Orlando deal goes through, he'd be their second option.
If by 2nd you mean 5th sure. Nelson, Carter, Lewis and Howard all are better offensive players. He is not a bad player. He is good defender and rebounder but his offensive numbers are inflated, he is average or slightly above average offensively.

He'd be second behind Howard. Carter is washed up, Lewis is starting to look like he's getting there, and Nelson? Did Deng run over your dog or something? He averages fewer PPG for his career than Kirk freaking Hinrich.
 

clonetrooper264

Retired Bandwagon Mod
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
Posts:
23,602
Liked Posts:
7,413
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  2. Golden State Warriors
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Shakes wrote:
And I agree completely with Fred, we should go hard after Bosh and not touch Johnson or Amare unless we have to.

Obviously the ideal situation is any one where we get LeBron and a big man, ideally being Bosh. Personally, I'd prefer LeBron and a big man over LeBron and JJ because I'd rather not have all our fire power be in the backcourt. The big man, even if that big man is David Lee or something, provides more offensive balance.
 

Shakes

Iconoclast
Joined:
Apr 22, 2009
Posts:
3,857
Liked Posts:
142
By the way Fred, I'm also completely at a loss by your reference to the relevance of a player's draft position through his career. Sure, Oden will be remembered for being a number 1 pick. But do you honestly think if they offered him to the Jazz for Deron Williams the Jazz will say "Jackpot! We swap the #3 for a #1!"

But since you think that way, Beasley is available. I assume you'll want to send Noah, only a #9 pick, to get the #2. :laugh:
 

clonetrooper264

Retired Bandwagon Mod
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
Posts:
23,602
Liked Posts:
7,413
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  2. Golden State Warriors
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
19 and 7 was a career high, he is a 16/6 guy over his career as a second option. All of his numbers are inflated. Do you really see him being a 2nd ption on any other playoff team?

There are plenty of other teams where he could be. If the Orlando deal goes through, he'd be their second option.
If by 2nd you mean 5th sure. Nelson, Carter, Lewis and Howard all are better offensive players. He is not a bad player. He is good defender and rebounder but his offensive numbers are inflated, he is average or slightly above average offensively.

He'd be second behind Howard. Carter is washed up, Lewis is starting to look like he's getting there, and Nelson? Did Deng run over your dog or something? He averages fewer PPG for his career than Kirk freaking Hinrich.
Hmm...I'd see something more like Deng being 3rd if Carter really sucks and Lewis gets his act together. I'm actually surprised Nelson doesn't score more points, he seems like a good offensive player, and his playoff numbers seem to back that up, but apparently, points wise, he's slightly worse than Kirk Hinrich, the worst pg ever. :laugh:
 

clonetrooper264

Retired Bandwagon Mod
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
Posts:
23,602
Liked Posts:
7,413
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  2. Golden State Warriors
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Shakes wrote:
By the way Fred, I'm also completely at a loss by your reference to the relevance of a player's draft position through his career. Sure, Oden will be remembered for being a number 1 pick. But do you honestly think if they offered him to the Jazz for Deron Williams the Jazz will say "Jackpot! We swap the #3 for a #1!"

But since you think that way, Beasley is available. I assume you'll want to send Noah, only a #9 pick, to get the #2. :laugh:
Don't forget Darko was a #2. We should be clamoring to get him. :laugh:
 

TheStig

New member
Joined:
Apr 5, 2009
Posts:
3,636
Liked Posts:
38
clonetrooper264 wrote:
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
19 and 7 was a career high, he is a 16/6 guy over his career as a second option. All of his numbers are inflated. Do you really see him being a 2nd ption on any other playoff team?

There are plenty of other teams where he could be. If the Orlando deal goes through, he'd be their second option.
If by 2nd you mean 5th sure. Nelson, Carter, Lewis and Howard all are better offensive players. He is not a bad player. He is good defender and rebounder but his offensive numbers are inflated, he is average or slightly above average offensively.

He'd be second behind Howard. Carter is washed up, Lewis is starting to look like he's getting there, and Nelson? Did Deng run over your dog or something? He averages fewer PPG for his career than Kirk freaking Hinrich.
Hmm...I'd see something more like Deng being 3rd if Carter really sucks and Lewis gets his act together. I'm actually surprised Nelson doesn't score more points, he seems like a good offensive player, and his playoff numbers seem to back that up, but apparently, points wise, he's slightly worse than Kirk Hinrich, the worst pg ever. :laugh:

What are you talking about, Nelson averaged 1.7ppg more than Kirk over the season.
 

pinkizdead

New member
Joined:
Mar 30, 2009
Posts:
3,692
Liked Posts:
131
Location:
south loop
Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

TheStig wrote:
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
19 and 7 was a career high, he is a 16/6 guy over his career as a second option. All of his numbers are inflated. Do you really see him being a 2nd ption on any other playoff team?

There are plenty of other teams where he could be. If the Orlando deal goes through, he'd be their second option.
If by 2nd you mean 5th sure. Nelson, Carter, Lewis and Howard all are better offensive players. He is not a bad player. He is good defender and rebounder but his offensive numbers are inflated, he is average or slightly above average offensively.

are you basing this off his flagrant misuse by vdn and the bulls offense? The guy is a cutter with a midrange jumper. He works off ball, so he needs a pg who can find him in the right spots. Deng had to find his own offense in this offensive strategy. He's not a spot up shooter, he's not a 3pt shooter. Those were the looks he got this year.

i think deng is a far superior player to what his numbers indicate, he's just severly limited on the offensive end. he cant beat you off the dribble, and he cant get his shots out of the flow of the offense. you need something in play to get deng his looks. we didnt have that this year.

16ppg and 7 rebounds isn't bad. i'd love a guy like that.
 

TheStig

New member
Joined:
Apr 5, 2009
Posts:
3,636
Liked Posts:
38
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
19 and 7 was a career high, he is a 16/6 guy over his career as a second option. All of his numbers are inflated. Do you really see him being a 2nd ption on any other playoff team?

There are plenty of other teams where he could be. If the Orlando deal goes through, he'd be their second option.
If by 2nd you mean 5th sure. Nelson, Carter, Lewis and Howard all are better offensive players. He is not a bad player. He is good defender and rebounder but his offensive numbers are inflated, he is average or slightly above average offensively.

He'd be second behind Howard. Carter is washed up, Lewis is starting to look like he's getting there, and Nelson? Did Deng run over your dog or something? He averages fewer PPG for his career than Kirk freaking Hinrich.

Not at all, he is probably an underrated perimeter defender and rebounder but he is not a good scorer. They guy is no ones second option, especially not one of the top offensive teams in the league. He would barely touch the ball and be exclusively a jump shooter who cuts a bit and gets put backs. His efficiency would be better in Orlando but his ppg would drop significantly. He is barely a 2nd option on one of the worst offensive teams in the league.
 

TheStig

New member
Joined:
Apr 5, 2009
Posts:
3,636
Liked Posts:
38
Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

pinkizdead wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Shakes wrote:
TheStig wrote:
19 and 7 was a career high, he is a 16/6 guy over his career as a second option. All of his numbers are inflated. Do you really see him being a 2nd ption on any other playoff team?

There are plenty of other teams where he could be. If the Orlando deal goes through, he'd be their second option.
If by 2nd you mean 5th sure. Nelson, Carter, Lewis and Howard all are better offensive players. He is not a bad player. He is good defender and rebounder but his offensive numbers are inflated, he is average or slightly above average offensively.

are you basing this off his flagrant misuse by vdn and the bulls offense? The guy is a cutter with a midrange jumper. He works off ball, so he needs a pg who can find him in the right spots. Deng had to find his own offense in this offensive strategy. He's not a spot up shooter, he's not a 3pt shooter. Those were the looks he got this year.

i think deng is a far superior player to what his numbers indicate, he's just severly limited on the offensive end. he cant beat you off the dribble, and he cant get his shots out of the flow of the offense. you need something in play to get deng his looks. we didnt have that this year.

16ppg and 7 rebounds isn't bad. i'd love a guy like that.

Thats a bad offensive player!!! Thats everything you expect out of an SF. lets take the defense and rebounding out of this because we can all agree he is good at that. But the guy can't drive, he can't handle the ball, he isn't a great passer, his jump shot has disappeared (which used to be his best attribute) and he needs people to find him for wode open shots.
 

pinkizdead

New member
Joined:
Mar 30, 2009
Posts:
3,692
Liked Posts:
131
Location:
south loop
Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

i dont think deng is a 2nd scoring option, but he's definately a 3rd scoring option.

however on the magic team, i dont think VC is that great of a scoring option. everyone on the team is streaky as hell. VC sucks. really i dont know who the next scoring option is besides nelson.

1Nelson
2/3/4 Howard/Lewis, deng
 

Top