CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bosh

[TheStig]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

Its just a really bad example. The Magic have a lot of scorers, Deng would likely fall to the end of the list. They need his perimeter D and rebounding. If it were Milwaukee, I think he could be 2nd or 3rd on that list if we traded Deng instead of Salmons. I think he falls as a 3/4 option on most playoff teams.

 

[Shakes]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

TheStig wrote:

But the guy can't drive, he can't handle the ball, he isn't a great passer, his jump shot has disappeared (which used to be his best attribute) and he needs people to find him for wode open shots.

So how did he average 17.6 a game? Osmosis? I'm not saying Deng is a great offensive player, but I think people focus too much on what he can't do. If he could do all those things then sure, he'd be an all star, but he'd also be paid the max.

The only thing he really needs is a coach that forces him to shoot the three. That, combined with his defense and rebounding (which as you note we all agree is great for his position) would make him good value for a lot of teams.

 

[TheStig]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

But the guy can't drive, he can't handle the ball, he isn't a great passer, his jump shot has disappeared (which used to be his best attribute) and he needs people to find him for wode open shots.

So how did he average 17.6 a game? Osmosis? I'm not saying Deng is a great offensive player, but I think people focus too much on what he can't do. If he could do all those things then sure, he'd be an all star, but he'd also be paid the max.

The only thing he really needs is a coach that forces him to shoot the three. That, combined with his defense and rebounding (which as you note we all agree is great for his position) would make him good value for a lot of teams.

He averaged that many points because he got a lot more shots and minutes then he should have. If he is such a good scorer, why are the bulls bottom 3 offensively? Reverse Osmosis ? I'm not saying he has to do all that but Iggy, a guy who gets paid the same money, can create his own shot and for others. I'm not saying he has to do everything on that list but something would be nice.

Agreed, he would be better if he can hit a 3. He does everything else well but offensively leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Shakes]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

TheStig wrote:

If he is such a good scorer, why are the bulls bottom 3 offensively?

Call me crazy, but maybe it has something to do with our starting SG/PF/C averaging a combined 30 points a game?

I just hate the good team/bad team excuse. The problem is you can use it to justify what you want. We hear how when Rose was struggling, it's because the team is bad. When Deng does well it's because the team is bad. When Rose does well or Deng does badly, it's never because the team is bad.

 

[TheStig]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

If he is such a good scorer, why are the bulls bottom 3 offensively?

Call me crazy, but maybe it has something to do with our starting SG/PF/C averaging a combined 30 points a game?

I just hate the good team/bad team excuse. The problem is you can use it to justify what you want. We hear how when Rose was struggling, it's because the team is bad. When Deng does well it's because the team is bad. When Rose does well or Deng does badly, it's never because the team is bad.

Are you kidding? This team lived and died by Rose offensively. If he weren't here, we would give the nets a run for their money. Deng isn't leading you anywhere.

 

[Shakes]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

TheStig wrote:

Deng isn't leading you anywhere.

Oh, so now the argument isn't about second options, you want him to be the first option too?

 

[TheStig]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

Most 2nd options are capable of being first options. He doesn't have to lead but he should be capable of it at times.

 

[Shakes]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

We've gone a bit off track like we always do when talking Deng or Gordon. I think we're not that far apart, I don't think Deng is a 2nd option on a championship team, but you said playoff team, and given he's been a second option on a playoff team twice already that seems a bit of a stretch to say he can't be.

If we sign LeBron of course we should move him for the Orlando deal if it's real. Especially now we've got the space to sign two players, Deng's potential role would be pretty small. Sorry Mark, having Deng come off the bench in a minor role is just silly, better off getting two rotation players for one.

 

[clonetrooper264]

TheStig wrote:

clonetrooper264 wrote:

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

19 and 7 was a career high, he is a 16/6 guy over his career as a second option. All of his numbers are inflated. Do you really see him being a 2nd ption on any other playoff team?

There are plenty of other teams where he could be. If the Orlando deal goes through, he'd be their second option.

If by 2nd you mean 5th sure. Nelson, Carter, Lewis and Howard all are better offensive players. He is not a bad player. He is good defender and rebounder but his offensive numbers are inflated, he is average or slightly above average offensively.

He'd be second behind Howard. Carter is washed up, Lewis is starting to look like he's getting there, and Nelson? Did Deng run over your dog or something? He averages fewer PPG for his career than Kirk freaking Hinrich.

Hmm...I'd see something more like Deng being 3rd if Carter really sucks and Lewis gets his act together. I'm actually surprised Nelson doesn't score more points, he seems like a good offensive player, and his playoff numbers seem to back that up, but apparently, points wise, he's slightly worse than Kirk Hinrich, the worst pg ever. :laugh:

What are you talking about, Nelson averaged 1.7ppg more than Kirk over the season.

Referring to career average.

 

[TheStig]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

Shakes wrote:

We've gone a bit off track like we always do when talking Deng or Gordon. I think we're not that far apart, I don't think Deng is a 2nd option on a championship team, but you said playoff team, and given he's been a second option on a playoff team twice already that seems a bit of a stretch to say he can't be.

I hardly condsider being a number two in a couple of bottom of the league offenses a success, not to mention we were an 8th seed for one. I know we aren't far off but he really isn't more than a 3rd option on a playoff team.

 

[Shakes]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

TheStig wrote:

I hardly condsider being a number two in a couple of bottom of the league offenses a success, not to mention we were an 8th seed for one. I know we aren't far off but he really isn't more than a 3rd option on a playoff team.

It's not like Gordon or Rose (given his entire year, obviously he got better as the year went on) are ideal #1 options either. And neither team had any interior scoring to speak of at all. We all know there were a number of reasons that the Bulls offense was below average.

Of course Deng is more suited to being a 3rd option, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up the 2nd option on a team again in his career. Everyone makes do with the players they have, who wouldn't want to be stacked that they can push Deng down to being a 3rd or even 4th option?

 

[TheStig]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

I think Rose is a fairly typical non superstar primary option. So I really don't think the problem was with Rose, more like everyone else.

Sorry, I just don't see any other playoff team where he is a 2nd option. I can't see him ever being more than a third again. Skiles built the offense aroung him adn he still couldn't crack 20ppg.

 

[Shakes]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

TheStig wrote:

Sorry, I just don't see any other playoff team where he is a 2nd option. I can't see him ever being more than a third again. Skiles built the offense aroung him adn he still couldn't crack 20ppg.

And not one second option in the league cracked 20 PPG this year. The scoring load is increasingly being spread around these days, a second option only contributing 17 or 18 is standard.

 

[TheStig]

Re:CBE 109: The Focus needs to be on James and Bos

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Sorry, I just don't see any other playoff team where he is a 2nd option. I can't see him ever being more than a third again. Skiles built the offense aroung him adn he still couldn't crack 20ppg.

And not one second option in the league cracked 20 PPG this year. The scoring load is increasingly being spread around these days, a second option only contributing 17 or 18 is standard.

Most second options have cracked 20ppg sometime in their career when they were first options.