chicago bulls marathon on nba tv

[houheffna]

Is your comprehension really this bad? Let me rephrase my statement. Nobody has been able to play basketball at the level michael jordan played. It seems to me the knock on pippen is that he didn't play at jordans level. I agree he didn't. Cuz if he did, he have to be considered on jordans level.

Houheffa alluded to the 93 championship game 6 as his example that pippen couldn't take over games. I just finished watching this particular game. In that 4th quarter, everbody shot bad. Pippen took only 2 shots I believe. He missed them both. But the assumption is jordan had an amzing 4th. He took about 12 shots and made four of them. Most in isolation. But its been made to seem as if jordan was 7-9 in that fourth quarter. He wasn't.

The one game that I can think of off the top of my head where pippen really didn't show up when need offensivly was in 97 when jordan had the flu. The "flu game". I'm sure there were more, but they were really few and far between.

No they were not few and far between...if you are going to put Pippen as some franchise player who could have led teams to championships...you show up in games like that. Yes, Jordan was the man...Jordan and Paxson were also the only guys that scored in that quarter if I am not mistaken.

Matter of fact, who would you have rather taken that shot...Paxson or Pippen? Who was the better clutch player? You should know the answer...unless you have a hole in your head...

That was my point. Pippen never showed the ability to be a closer...that just wasn't something he was good at. Very few guys who shoot under 70% from the free throw line can be considered closers. That is just the way it is in the NBA. Why that is so hard a concept to understand...I don't know...

Not just Jordan...Kobe, Bird, hell, Ben Gordon...he didn't perform like those guys did in clutch situations. There were always a few guys on the team who could be counted on before him. Hakeem was a closer...Robinson wasn't that great at it...both were great players.

 

[houheffna]

I was wondering the same thing when he wrote that "pippen wasn't the 2nd best player either"....Did he mean that pip wasn't the second best player ever, the second best player in the nba at the time or not the The second best player on the bulls?????.....fact is Pippen was the second best player on the Bulls next to Jordan the whole time they played together..:shrug:

He may have meant that Pippen wasn't the 2nd best player on the floor in that series when counting both teams? I would agree with that. Charles Barkley was the 2nd best player in that series.

 

[nwfisch]

I was talking about Pippen being seemingly the 2nd best player in NBA history.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I was talking about Pippen being seemingly the 2nd best player in NBA history.

Thanks..you cleared that up for me...I agree that pippen wasn't the 2nd best player in nba history.....true..........but he was the second best in bulls history........yes???? :smoke:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Did I ever insult your intelligence on here? If I did, I apologize.

Pippen was has and always will be 2 to Jordan. He never did it on his own in the 2 years Jordan "retired."

Jordan wouldn't have won w/o Pippen and Pippen wouldn't have won w/o Jordan. But Pippen is not equal to or better than Jordan. Pippen is also not the 2nd best player either.

possibly...frankly i think jordan in the 90s had the drive as well as the ability to take over on both ends to win...if you just take pippen off the team..i could still see jordan winning one or two with that team

and no,pippen is not on the level of jordan nor was he ever

and and he was never,imo, the best player in the league either

 

[scottiepippen1994]

possibly...frankly i think jordan in the 90s had the drive as well as the ability to take over on both ends to win...if you just take pippen off the team..i could still see jordan winning one or two with that team

and no,pippen is not on the level of jordan nor was he ever

and and he was never,imo, the best player in the league either

Actually, there were stretches between 93 to 95 where experts and players around the league were considering him the best all around player in the league..including coming out of the mouth of Magic Johnsonand Hueby Brown..they were and still are experts....this is a fact jack..I have the tapes to prove it where expert broadcasters called pippen just that..For example, the announcers call Pippen best all around player on 3 occasions during the 1995 Bulls knicks game where Jordan "45" scored 55 points at madison garden.....Give me your address and I will ship these games to you for free, ill even pay shipping and handling..just private message me and ill prove it..YOU ALLOWED TO HAVE YOUR OPINION, BUT YOUR KNOW EXPERT...ILL GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR WHAT THE EXPERTS AND PLAYERS AROUND THE LEAGUE WERE SAYING AT THE TIME....its true sir....Your statements are based on flawed memories from 16 years ago...My staements are based on the actual footage and proof that's right in front of my face right now as I type....When you receive the Converted tapes on dvd I send you, you can apologize , admit you werre wrong, and thank me...Ill resppond with,"I forgive you and your welcome...you can then begin your recovery with spreading the word of the truth you witnessed...

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Actually, there was a stretch between 93 to 95 where experts were considering him the best all around player in the league...this is a fact jack..I have the tapes to prove it where expert broadcasters called pippen just that..For example, the announcers call Pippen best all around player on 3 occasions during the 1995 Bulls knicks game where Jordan "45" scored 55 points at madison garden.....Give me your address and I will ship these games to you for free, ill even pay shipping and handling..just private message me and ill prove it..YOU ALLOWED TO HAVE YOUR OPINION, BUT YOUR KNOW EXPERT...ILL GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR WHAT THE EXPERTS AND PLAYERS AROUND THE LEAGUE WERE SAYING AT THE TIME....its true sir....

ya, i would like to here some of those experts..because i think olajuwon and robinson were better in that time

plus, they probably meant he was the most well rounded...not best overall..though i could be wrong

 

[scottiepippen1994]

ya, i would like to here some of those experts..because i think olajuwon and robinson were better in that time

plus, they probably meant he was the most well rounded...not best overall..though i could be wrong

Its cool bro, that was along time ago and I wouldn't expect people to remeber certain details...That's why I offered you copies of certain games from my collection..Even though Pippen never won mvp, there were certain strtches of differant seasons where experts did call him, and ill quote," the best all around player in the game today"...I'm am serious, I would be willing to send them to you to prove my point....After that, you can copy them yourself and spread them around to your friends here......I have know problem sharing visual and audio proof....tape doesn't lie my friend....I'm not trying to be a prick, just trying to help prove factual knowledge and evidence that I have to back up my statements...After all, that's what heroes like myself do....LoL

 

[97Bulls]

No they were not few and far between...if you are going to put Pippen as some franchise player who could have led teams to championships...you show up in games like that. Yes, Jordan was the man...Jordan and Paxson were also the only guys that scored in that quarter if I am not mistaken.
I just watched the game yesterday. I believe the bulls as a team took 18 shots that 4th quarter. Jordan alone accounted for about 12 of those 18. He made 4 baskets. Pippen took 3 shots 2 were with 1 second on the clock and he had to shoot a desperation 3. Grant took I believe 2. He had a wide open layup but the ball slipped out of his hand and then that paxson shot. The bulls offensivly stunk in that fourth quarter. Jordan was the only one who scored cuz he was the only one shooting. And truth be told, it wasn't within the offense. Now I'm glad the outcome turned out the way it did. But at least put it into perspective.

Matter of fact, who would you have rather taken that shot...Paxson or Pippen? Who was the better clutch player? You should know the answer...unless you have a hole in your head...
id take pax over pippen for a jumpshot.
That was my point. Pippen never showed the ability to be a closer...that just wasn't something he was good at. Very few guys who shoot under 70% from the free throw line can be considered closers. That is just the way it is in the NBA. Why that is so hard a concept to understand...I don't know...
Its hard to understand cuz its not true. I. Don't know what more you would want out of pippen. I showed you the stats of every closeout game the bulls played in. He took over games when jordan didn't have it. He took over the team in jordans absence. What more do you want?

Not just Jordan...Kobe, Bird, hell, Ben Gordon...he didn't perform like those guys did in clutch situations. There were always a few guys on the team who could be counted on before him. Hakeem was a closer...Robinson wasn't that great at it...both were great players.

I honestly don't think you know what the definition of taking over a game is. How many examples do you need? Or is it just that no matter how many examples I show you, its just something that your gonna refuse to admit. Pippen took over games. Not as much as jordan, but really, who has? Magic johnson was known as "tragic johnson " after what he did in 84. The celtics could've won that championship in 81 without bird offensivly. He played like shit. Kobe to me has never really taken over a game so to speak in a finals. He just takes the most shots. And the lakers won a championship in 2000 in spite of him. He avg 15 pts on 38% shooting. And he literraly shot them out of the nba finals in 04.

Or you believe that pippen was really so good that he shouldn't have had a bad game. And if this is the case, then your more unreasonable than I thought.

 

[97Bulls]

Hey heff, here's another thing for you to chew on. I took a look at how some of the all-time greats teams faired when their best player abrutply left or got injured.


In 89 bird play in only six games. The celtics lead by mchale and parrish finished with 42 wins. They replaced bird with reggie lewis. Who was a damn good player.
The year before they won 57 games

In 92, after magic retired, the lakers won 43 games. They were led by worthy, and scott. The year before, they won 58 games.
The lakers replaced magic with sedale threatt. Who was a sold PG

In 05, after shaq was traded, the lakers won 34 games. His replacement was chris mihm. Who obviously isn't a household name. But in 05 was a damn good center relative to the the other centers in the league. Even top 10. Eric dampier made the all-star team that year. That just shows what kind of centers were prevalent during that time.
The previous year, the lakers won 56 games

In 94 scottie pippen led the bulls to 55 wins after jordans abrupt retire. The year before, the bulls won 55 games. Jordans replacement was pete myers. Who was in the cba at the time.

And allow me to help with some rebutals. I'm sure you will like to include toni kukoc in as jordans replacement. Well then id come back with the fact that, myers and a rookie kukoc (a player that really didn't speak english mind you) still don't amount to a reggie lewis, or the fact that along with mihm the lakers also aquired odom and butler.

All of the teams mentioend went deep into the playoff the previous year. The bulls won the championship but they also had the smallest change as far as wins and losses.

I believe pippen was a franchise type player.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

When there wrong

Hey heff, here's another thing for you to chew on. I took a look at how some of the all-time greats teams faired when their best player abrutply left or got injured.


In 89 bird play in only six games. The celtics lead by mchale and parrish finished with 42 wins. They replaced bird with reggie lewis. Who was a damn good player.
The year before they won 57 games

In 92, after magic retired, the lakers won 43 games. They were led by worthy, and scott. The year before, they won 58 games.
The lakers replaced magic with sedale threatt. Who was a sold PG

In 05, after shaq was traded, the lakers won 34 games. His replacement was chris mihm. Who obviously isn't a household name. But in 05 was a damn good center relative to the the other centers in the league. Even top 10. Eric dampier made the all-star team that year. That just shows what kind of centers were prevalent during that time.
The previous year, the lakers won 56 games

In 94 scottie pippen led the bulls to 55 wins after jordans abrupt retire. The year before, the bulls won 55 games. Jordans replacement was pete myers. Who was in the cba at the time.

And allow me to help with some rebutals. I'm sure you will like to include toni kukoc in as jordans replacement. Well then id come back with the fact that, myers and a rookie kukoc (a player that really didn't speak english mind you) still don't amount to a reggie lewis, or the fact that along with mihm the lakers also aquired odom and butler.

All of the teams mentioend went deep into the playoff the previous year. The bulls won the championship but they also had the smallest change as far as wins and losses.

I believe pippen was a franchise type player.

I've stated exactly the same thing over and over again..it doesn't matter, some people just don't want to admit when there wrong.....losing the greatest player in history and only losing 2 more games the same season is simply incredible..Pippen in his prime most definately was a franchise type player..it is what it is.....Only solution is for me to share my full 94 season on vhs and dvd with some people here....I am willing to duplicate them to make a solid point that will prove it once and for all....

 

[RODMAN WILL ALWAYS BE 91]

If i had known that my post appreciating Rodman,would be the reason his thread is closed,i wouldn`t have posted my thoughts. The posters accusing me of being a troll because i took the time to register on this site and share my thoughts on a player who made the Bulls greater and popular not only in your country,but in Deutschland und auf der ganzen Welt,tzt,tzt,tzt...very mature,ihr Kinder) Looks like i chose the wrong forum to give Rodman his just due and the insights of how he is an iconic player in the rest of the world...except in Chicago.Too bad.Your loss.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

If i had known that my post appreciating Rodman,would be the reason his thread is closed,i wouldn`t have posted my thoughts. The posters accusing me of being a troll because i took the time to register on this site and share my thoughts on a player who made the Bulls greater and popular not only in your country,but in Deutschland und auf der ganzen Welt,tzt,tzt,tzt...very mature,ihr Kinder) Looks like i chose the wrong forum to give Rodman his just due and the insights of how he is an iconic player in the rest of the world...except in Chicago.Too bad.Your loss.

Its cool bro..You should post as much as you want....don't let no one ruin it for you....AND YES, DENNIS RODMAN DESERVES TO HAVE HIS NUMBER RETIRED AT THE UC.....ENJOY THIS FORUM AND GO BULLS...

 

[houheffna]

Hey heff, here's another thing for you to chew on. I took a look at how some of the all-time greats teams faired when their best player abrutply left or got injured.


In 89 bird play in only six games. The celtics lead by mchale and parrish finished with 42 wins. They replaced bird with reggie lewis. Who was a damn good player.
The year before they won 57 games

In 92, after magic retired, the lakers won 43 games. They were led by worthy, and scott. The year before, they won 58 games.
The lakers replaced magic with sedale threatt. Who was a sold PG

In 05, after shaq was traded, the lakers won 34 games. His replacement was chris mihm. Who obviously isn't a household name. But in 05 was a damn good center relative to the the other centers in the league. Even top 10. Eric dampier made the all-star team that year. That just shows what kind of centers were prevalent during that time.
The previous year, the lakers won 56 games

In 94 scottie pippen led the bulls to 55 wins after jordans abrupt retire. The year before, the bulls won 55 games. Jordans replacement was pete myers. Who was in the cba at the time.

And allow me to help with some rebutals. I'm sure you will like to include toni kukoc in as jordans replacement. Well then id come back with the fact that, myers and a rookie kukoc (a player that really didn't speak english mind you) still don't amount to a reggie lewis, or the fact that along with mihm the lakers also aquired odom and butler.

All of the teams mentioend went deep into the playoff the previous year. The bulls won the championship but they also had the smallest change as far as wins and losses.

I believe pippen was a franchise type player.

How good of a player was Worthy, McHale, Parrish, Byron Scott by the time Magic and Bird retired? The Lakers overachieved WITH Magic in 1991. The Bulls had virtually their entire championship team together in the prime of their careers. Totally different situation...nothing to chew on...that didn't prove much. The Bulls had a better team...TEAM than those other squads did. You either recycle or invent arguments....where there is none. Who again said that Pippen wasn't a great player? I said he isn't a closer...those boys you just named all are better players than him...

Kobe, Bird, Magic, Shaq...all are better basketball players. And Bird and Kobe were certified closers...Pippen is not on that level in that area. That was something he was not good at as most wing players who can't shoot free throws are not good at doing. What is so hard about that concept?

There were other players on the team at ALL times who closed out better than Pippen. 1994 proved it...since that is the season you are using as some kind of meter. Nevermind the greatest coach arguably in NBA history...never mind 2 allstars on that team (while you sing the praises of Chris Mihm---give me a damn break with that...he changed the world with his 10 pts and 6 rebs a game...yeah right), the introduction of another closer in Kukoc, you act as if Pippen taught that team how to win...hello! They just got finished with a 3peat! C'mon son!

 

[scottiepippen1994]

How good of a player was Worthy, McHale, Parrish, Byron Scott by the time Magic and Bird retired? The Lakers overachieved WITH Magic in 1991. The Bulls had virtually their entire championship team together in the prime of their careers. Totally different situation...nothing to chew on...that didn't prove much. The Bulls had a better team...TEAM than those other squads did. You either recycle or invent arguments....where there is none. Who again said that Pippen wasn't a great player? I said he isn't a closer...those boys you just named all are better players than him...

Kobe, Bird, Magic, Shaq...all are better basketball players. And Bird and Kobe were certified closers...Pippen is not on that level in that area. That was something he was not good at as most wing players who can't shoot free throws are not good at doing. What is so hard about that concept?

There were other players on the team at ALL times who closed out better than Pippen. 1994 proved it...since that is the season you are using as some kind of meter. Nevermind the greatest coach arguably in NBA history...never mind 2 allstars on that team (while you sing the praises of Chris Mihm---give me a damn break with that...he changed the world with his 10 pts and 6 rebs a game...yeah right), the introduction of another closer in Kukoc, you act as if Pippen taught that team how to win...hello! They just got finished with a 3peat! C'mon son!

Excuse me sir, but Pippen averaged more than 10 points and 6 rebounds a game...10 points a game??????? Really???????Maybe your talking about someone other than Pip...Those stats sound more like Kucocs stats..LoL

 

[97Bulls]

How good of a player was Worthy, McHale, Parrish, Byron Scott by the time Magic and Bird retired?
age doesn't matter. They were still producing at their normal level. But since you asked, mchale 31, parrish 35, worthy was 31, scott was about 29, and kobe 27.

The Lakers overachieved WITH Magic in 1991.
I wouldn't say they overachieved. They won 57 games. They certainly did overachieve without magic.

The Bulls had virtually their entire championship team together in the prime of their careers. Totally different situation...nothing to chew on...that didn't prove much.
So did the other teams. He celtics still had ainge, johnson, parrish, and mchale. The lakers still had worthy, scott, green, perkins and divac. The lakers did chage but id call it an improvement. They replaced fisher, fox and horry for odom, butler, and atkins.

The Bulls had a better team...TEAM than those other squads did. You either recycle or invent arguments....where there is none. Who again said that Pippen wasn't a great player? I said he isn't a closer...those boys you just named all are better players than him...
they're better, but pippen did far better than any of them. Ok..... that makes sense.


Kobe, Bird, Magic, Shaq...all are better basketball players. And Bird and Kobe were
certified closers...Pippen is not on that level in that area. That was something he was not good at as most wing players who can't shoot free throws are not good at doing. What is so hard about that concept?
really? But when I show you the times he genuinely took over games or closed out games etc, your reply is it doesn't matter. Maybe your idea of taking over games is different from mine. You seem to think that if a player is a high volume scorer then they're good at taking over games. That couldn't be further from the truth.


There were other players on the team at ALL times who closed out better than Pippen. 1994 proved it...since that is the season you are using as some kind of meter. Nevermind the greatest coach arguably in NBA history...never mind 2 allstars on that team (while you sing the praises of Chris Mihm---give me a damn break with that...he changed the world with his 10 pts and 6 rebs a game...yeah right), the introduction of another closer in Kukoc, you act as if Pippen taught that team how to win...hello! They just got finished with a 3peat! C'mon son!
You come on. That's all you got is one game. No 1.8 seconds. You say the 94 bulls had 2 allstars on them well so did all the other teams I mentioned, hell the celtics had hofers 3 of them.

Why don't you admit your disdain for pippen. I've refuted every nonsensical argument you make with regards to pippen being more than just a robin. I've shown you stats, clips, rehashed games, compare him to his contemporaires, compared his stats, Quoted respected members of the nba family.

All you got is 1.8 seconds of an illusrtrious 15 year career and a sam smith article.

 

[houheffna]

Why don't you admit your disdain for pippen. I've refuted every nonsensical argument you make with regards to pippen being more than just a robin. I've shown you stats, clips, rehashed games, compare him to his contemporaires, compared his stats, Quoted respected members of the nba family.

All you got is 1.8 seconds of an illusrtrious 15 year career and a sam smith article.

First and foremost...how far removed were Bird and Magic from championship caliber teams when those guys left. In the 6 games with Bird, the Celtics were 2-4...the obviously played better after he left. And yes, the Lakers overachieved in 1991. The best team in the league that year was the Portland Trailblazers. They were upset by the Lakers.

You refute arguments with nonsense. The conclusions you have drawn from quotes like Chuck Daly's are hilarious. And it shows your overstating his greatness...even to the point that even Pip doesn't agree. I asked you if you thought Daly was calling Pippen the greatest player on the Dream Team, even you are not that delusional. The top tier of that dream team did not include Pippen...believe that.

So now you think Pippen trumps Kobe? Really? I don't want to have that argument, just know that's really goofy if you think that.

When I point out issues like the migraine and Jordan's anger with Pippen, you bring up Pippen's father dying...when that had nothing to do with the migraine, and it happened WEEKS BEFORE!

By the way...Sam Smith had many sources in the Bulls organization...including one very important source who knew everything...you should find out who that was. Jordan Rules was not fiction...neither was Smith's account of the 1998 Bulls. I have heard Terry Boers and Steve Rosenbloom say often that even though they were there or knew what was going on behind the scenes, discussing it on the radio is futile because people like you believe whatever the popular opinion is, because it reserves the reputation of your heroes...screw that, when you hit your 30's, you should be able to face reality.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Why don't you admit your disdain for pippen. I've refuted every nonsensical argument you make with regards to pippen being more than just a robin. I've shown you stats, clips, rehashed games, compare him to his contemporaires, compared his stats, Quoted respected members of the nba family.

All you got is 1.8 seconds of an illusrtrious 15 year career and a sam smith article.

:fist:

LoL...Dam your good.....this is truely classic...Bookmarked and saved in the archives...

Check out this new video..its very well made and listen to the rap titled "scottie pippen"..the guy that wrote the song should post here..LoL

Dailymotion - Curren$y Scottie Pippen - une vidéo Travel