Cowherd's rant against Wall

[houheffna]

Stuff like this really does vex me. Because a young boy decides to dance, people who don't understand the culture or don't want to understand it, complain and call him a loser after his first home opener. Cowherd is a joke...

Colin Cowherd's Asinine John Wall Rant, With Video Accompaniment

And I am really getting tired of hearing about what Magic or Jordan wouldn't have done. I hope he doesn't do some of the things those guys DID in their early lives.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

sometimes cowherd is insightful but alot of times he seems like a guy who doesnt understand younger kids these days

 

[X]

Cowherd approaches sports from a psychological standpoint instead of an athletic or competitive stance...it's not necessarily wrong, but often disagrees w/ how most of us view things...

However, I think he's not so far off base on this one...not necessarily the whole "he dances, so he doesn't get it" thing...but...Wall's over-rated.

 

[houheffna]

Cowherd approaches sports from a psychological standpoint instead of an athletic or competitive stance...it's not necessarily wrong, but often disagrees w/ how most of us view things...

However, I think he's not so far off base on this one...not necessarily the whole "he dances, so he doesn't get it" thing...but...Wall's over-rated.

Overrated how? He has been spectacular so far in his rookie season. This guy can be the best pg in the league real soon. He has an abundance of talent.

 

[X]

Overrated how? He has been spectacular so far in his rookie season. This guy can be the best pg in the league real soon. He has an abundance of talent.

You answered your own question...he's years away from being the best PG in the league. The guy does have immense talent, but he doesn't know how to control it. He had the same problem @ UK..and I'm sure I watch more UK games than anyone on here...the guy goes too fast for his own good. Until he improves his assist/turnover ratio, he's going to be good, not great.

 

[houheffna]

You answered your own question...he's years away from being the best PG in the league. The guy does have immense talent, but he doesn't know how to control it. He had the same problem @ UK..and I'm sure I watch more UK games than anyone on here...the guy goes too fast for his own good. Until he improves his assist/turnover ratio, he's going to be good, not great.

He is not out of control...I watched enough UK to see that he was the best player on the court every time he stepped on the court. And he played like it. I believe its a matter of time, he has to get used to the NBA game, but I think he has shown lots of progress at this point in his career. He projects to be just as good as Paul, Rondo, Rose...any of them and possibly better.

 

[X]

He is not out of control...I watched enough UK to see that he was the best player on the court every time he stepped on the court. And he played like it. I believe its a matter of time, he has to get used to the NBA game, but I think he has shown lots of progress at this point in his career. He projects to be just as good as Paul, Rondo, Rose...any of them and possibly better.

Not even UK fans thought he was the best player on the court every time he stepped on it...He was indeed the go-to guy...but by the end of the year, SEVERAL UK fans wanted to see Bledsoe get more time at the 1...

In Wall's last 2 games (Cornell and WV in the NCAA Tournament), he didn't fair so well. 8 points (4-9, 0-3 3FG), 3TOs against cornell (!!!) and against WV he had a statline of 19 points on 7 of 18 FG, 1-5 3FG, 4-8 FT, 1-1 Assist/TO ratio...and he fouled out.

He's GOING to be a good player, no doubt. But those last two games of the tournament, he didn't bother to show up...And I think, getting back to the point of the thread, that's what Cowherd was talking about. He's just not there mentally, yet...and he might get there, but I'm not going to be surprised if he's going to be considered one of those players that's really good, but not top 3 at his position. ESPECIALLY the PG position...too much talent there right now.

 

[houheffna]

Not even UK fans thought he was the best player on the court every time he stepped on it...He was indeed the go-to guy...but by the end of the year, SEVERAL UK fans wanted to see Bledsoe get more time at the 1...

In Wall's last 2 games (Cornell and WV in the NCAA Tournament), he didn't fair so well. 8 points (4-9, 0-3 3FG), 3TOs against cornell (!!!) and against WV he had a statline of 19 points on 7 of 18 FG, 1-5 3FG, 4-8 FT, 1-1 Assist/TO ratio...and he fouled out.

He's GOING to be a good player, no doubt. But those last two games of the tournament, he didn't bother to show up...And I think, getting back to the point of the thread, that's what Cowherd was talking about. He's just not there mentally, yet...and he might get there, but I'm not going to be surprised if he's going to be considered one of those players that's really good, but not top 3 at his position. ESPECIALLY the PG position...too much talent there right now.

Bledsoe my ass...Wall was the best player in college basketball last year. He IS a good player, not going to be, he is right now....

He is averaging damn near a double double this season. There is no question about whether he is going to be good, he proved that over the summer, its how good will he be, not whether he will be good or not.

He has as much talent as any pg in the league, he just has to get acclimated to the NBA.

Cowherd was talking stupid, on twitter they even suggested that he was a bit racist. Lebron dances all the time, a lot of players over the years have done their share of theatrics, including the beloved Joachim Noah. I mean seriously, which bothers you the most...a 19 year old doing some hip modern dance step that everybody is doing, or a 35 year old in a wedding dress? You tell me.

Those statements were prejudiced based on a generational gap. Let the kid play, he has already shown that he has the talent to be a great player, what he hasn't shown is that he will NEVER win a ring. That is crazy...

 

[Adog06]

Speaking of this asswipe im not sure if you guys heard what he said about Derrick Rose. This guy had the nerve to say that NO superstar wants to play with Derrick Rose. Never gave a reason for his comment but he kept say that and the fact that none of the big three landing here was the main reason. He also was calling him "Fools Gold" and even went as far as comparing Rose to Marbury! he flat out dissed Rose and never gave the listeners any reason why he felt that way. What do you guys think?

 

[X]

Speaking of this asswipe im not sure if you guys heard what he said about Derrick Rose. This guy had the nerve to say that NO superstar wants to play with Derrick Rose. Never gave a reason for his comment but he kept say that and the fact that none of the big three landing here was the main reason. He also was calling him "Fools Gold" and even went as far as comparing Rose to Marbury! he flat out dissed Rose and never gave the listeners any reason why he felt that way. What do you guys think?

Meh...he does that..."I'm right because I'm on ESPN...no one can dispute me."...but then, a bunch of 'em do that.

And, Hou...my bad...you wanna crown 'em? crown his ass.

 

[Adog06]

Meh...he does that..."I'm right because I'm on ESPN...no one can dispute me."...but then, a bunch of 'em do that.

And, Hou...my bad...you wanna crown 'em? crown his ass.

Plus he said Derrick Rose will NEVER win championships

 

[WearShades]

You answered your own question...he's years away from being the best PG in the league. The guy does have immense talent, but he doesn't know how to control it. He had the same problem @ UK..and I'm sure I watch more UK games than anyone on here...the guy goes too fast for his own good. Until he improves his assist/turnover ratio, he's going to be good, not great.

No one is currently saying he's the best PG in the league. They're just saying he's a spectacular rookie, which is entirely accurate.

My suspicion is you're one of those Bulls fans that don't care to see another big athletic PG besides Rose get attention, or worse upstage him.

 

[X]

No one is currently saying he's the best PG in the league. They're just saying he's a spectacular rookie, which is entirely accurate.

My suspicion is you're one of those Bulls fans that don't care to see another big athletic PG besides Rose get attention, or worse upstage him.

Your suspicion is entire incorrect.

More accurately, I think I just pretty much hate all ex-UK players...But, in my eyes, Wall has a lot to prove.

And, btw, nowhere in this thread have I declared Rose unguardable, unstoppable, or the best in the league....so where you got your suspicion, God knows...

 

[WearShades]

Your suspicion is entire incorrect.

More accurately, I think I just pretty much hate all ex-UK players...But, in my eyes, Wall has a lot to prove.

And, btw, nowhere in this thread have I declared Rose unguardable, unstoppable, or the best in the league....so where you got your suspicion, God knows...

I didn't say you said he was "unguardable, unstoppable, or the best in the league." I just said you're irrationally hard on Wall because you want him to win all of the Rose vs. Wall comparisons. It seems to be a pretty common theme among Bulls fans this year.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

wall has all the talent in the world and has started off well, but remember the Wizards are not a great team and Wall is still pretty raw and still needs work on his all around game

 

[Lefty]

Speaking of this asswipe im not sure if you guys heard what he said about Derrick Rose. This guy had the nerve to say that NO superstar wants to play with Derrick Rose. Never gave a reason for his comment but he kept say that and the fact that none of the big three landing here was the main reason. He also was calling him "Fools Gold" and even went as far as comparing Rose to Marbury! he flat out dissed Rose and never gave the listeners any reason why he felt that way. What do you guys think?

Well, there is a comparison that can be drawn between Rose and Marbury, as both are combo guards that weren't/aren't all the efficient given what they are asked to do. Both have similar usage rates (for their careers, though Rose's usage has dramatically spiked this season) of around 25%, but haven't shown great efficiency, posting ORtg's of 108 (Marbury) and 107 (Rose). I think Rose has the ability to be the far superior volume-scorer, but without an increase in efficiency, the added points won't carry the weight that they conceivably could. Rose is not a bad or even average player by any means, but I think people have a tendency to remember just the point totals and fantastic finishes over all the missed attempts. At the end of the day (or career), I think Rose will be cemented as the better player between the two, but for right now their similar lack of efficiency (this is not to say that their respective efficiency rates are bad or not above average, but rather just not ground breaking or befitting the praise and hope heaped upon Rose now and what was thought of Marbury, to an extent) as well as their penchant for not playing defense are all undeniable parallels.

 

[X]

I didn't say you said he was "unguardable, unstoppable, or the best in the league." I just said you're irrationally hard on Wall because you want him to win all of the Rose vs. Wall comparisons. It seems to be a pretty common theme among Bulls fans this year.

Bulls fans want the Bulls PG to be better than a rookie PG in the same conference? earth-shattering.

But, I'm okay with admitting Rose isn't the best right now, and may never be...so again, you're incorrect.

 

[WearShades]

Bulls fans want the Bulls PG to be better than a rookie PG in the same conference? earth-shattering.

But, I'm okay with admitting Rose isn't the best right now, and may never be...so again, you're incorrect.

While this is a decent stab at corrective steering on your part, you're not quite there yet.

You answered your own question...he's years away from being the best PG in the league. The guy does have immense talent, but he doesn't know how to control it. He had the same problem @ UK..and I'm sure I watch more UK games than anyone on here...the guy goes too fast for his own good. Until he improves his assist/turnover ratio, he's going to be good, not great.

The parts in bold all could rightfully be applied to Rose, yet you only go as far as to say Wall is "going to be a good player" and thus isn't one already. I doubt you'd claim Rose is simply going to be a good player; I'm pretty sure you'd claim him as one now. Thus, your inconsistency.

 

[Adog06]

Well, there is a comparison that can be drawn between Rose and Marbury, as both are combo guards that weren't/aren't all the efficient given what they are asked to do. Both have similar usage rates (for their careers, though Rose's usage has dramatically spiked this season) of around 25%, but haven't shown great efficiency, posting ORtg's of 108 (Marbury) and 107 (Rose). I think Rose has the ability to be the far superior volume-scorer, but without an increase in efficiency, the added points won't carry the weight that they conceivably could. Rose is not a bad or even average player by any means, but I think people have a tendency to remember just the point totals and fantastic finishes over all the missed attempts. At the end of the day (or career), I think Rose will be cemented as the better player between the two, but for right now their similar lack of efficiency (this is not to say that their respective efficiency rates are bad or not above average, but rather just not ground breaking or befitting the praise and hope heaped upon Rose now and what was thought of Marbury, to an extent) as well as their penchant for not playing defense are all undeniable parallels.

Sorry but Marbury is no where near what Rose is. If anything Marbury was more selfish and ignorant. He wasnt comparing statistics, he was saying "Oh yeah Marbury had the same assist Rate that Rose had during his career". Cowherd honestly had no backing on what he said about Rose. Marbury was never dominant and no where near as talented as Rose is. I mean to say that no Superstar wants to play with Rose, Rose will NEVER win championships, and hes "Fools Gold" is a complete assclown.

 

[Lefty]

Sorry but Marbury is no where near what Rose is.

From what you can reasonably come to expect from them, yeah, they kinda are very similar.

If anything Marbury was more selfish and ignorant.

1) I already told you their career usage rates are very similar, so unless you have some other non-subjective measurement of "selfishness" on the court, you are wrong. Well, I guess that's not true, Marbury's career usage percentage is 25.4, Rose's is 25.1. So I guess Marbury can be said to be .4% more selfish than Derrick Rose. Fantastic.

2) Ignorant with respect to what, and how does that have anything to do with his ability to be compared to Derrick Rose? It seems like you just have an arbitrary hate of Stephon Marbury.

He wasnt comparing statistics,

No, that's what I was doing.

he was saying "Oh yeah Marbury had the same assist Rate that Rose had during his career".

Wait, isn't that, you know, comparing statistics? Oh yeah, and Cowherd was wrong about that: Marbury actually has the better assist percentage of the two.

Cowherd honestly had no backing on what he said about Rose.

Except for that whole assist percentage thing and the fact that their career rates are very comparable.

Marbury was never dominant and no where near as talented as Rose is.

1) Define "dominant".

2) No one ever said Marbury was more talented or of comparable talent to Derrick Rose.

I mean to say that no Superstar wants to play with Rose, Rose will NEVER win championships, and hes "Fools Gold" is a complete assclown.

Ok, so? I was not defending what he said on those issues, just commenting on his comparison of Rose to Marbury, which you attributed to him and asked people to respond to. And, like I said, when you look at the numbers, the two are very similar at this point in time.