Cowherd's rant against Wall

[houheffna]

Well, there is a comparison that can be drawn between Rose and Marbury, as both are combo guards that weren't/aren't all the efficient given what they are asked to do. Both have similar usage rates (for their careers, though Rose's usage has dramatically spiked this season) of around 25%, but haven't shown great efficiency, posting ORtg's of 108 (Marbury) and 107 (Rose). I think Rose has the ability to be the far superior volume-scorer, but without an increase in efficiency, the added points won't carry the weight that they conceivably could. Rose is not a bad or even average player by any means, but I think people have a tendency to remember just the point totals and fantastic finishes over all the missed attempts. At the end of the day (or career), I think Rose will be cemented as the better player between the two, but for right now their similar lack of efficiency (this is not to say that their respective efficiency rates are bad or not above average, but rather just not ground breaking or befitting the praise and hope heaped upon Rose now and what was thought of Marbury, to an extent) as well as their penchant for not playing defense are all undeniable parallels.

I think you give Mr. Cowherd to much credit, he never would have done the research or have given as credible an answer as you did...

That said, Marbury earlier in his career was considered a young pg on the rise. I remember him causing San Antonio all kinds of problems in the playoffs because they didn't have a pg that could handle his size and speed. I think that time has shown Marbury to be a bit of a lost soul and Rose may accomplish more. But at the end of the day, Marbury never reached his potential as a player, but the potential was always there. His selfishness caused him to walk away from a better player so that he could be the man. Rose might not have done that, but he shows signs that he believes he can win a title on his own. That is something I am wary of, but we will see.

 

[Shakes]

I think to be fair to Marbury he got a lot of his bad rep not due to his play but for "not being a winner" despite the fact that he didn't really have the greatest situations and when he left teams they generally upgraded talent in other positions as well as changing the point guard. Marbury was never the best point guard in the league like he claimed at one point, but he wasn't a terrible player or cancer either.

 

[Frank Breakfast -Styleham]

I think Cowherd is right.

All those guys he referred to - the Stephon Marbury's if you will, the Steve Francis' if you will, what do those guys all share in common? They're all self-promoting, selfish, ball-hogging punks who are looking out for numero uno. They don't care about their team and certainly don't care about making everyone better.

What do all those other guys have in common - the Stockton's, the Magic's, the Isiah's...?

We never saw them do 35-second dance offs before the game. They were too focused on winning and making everyone on their team a better player. Only time we ever saw Isiah dance was after he made a game-winning shot. It wasn't before the game. He expressed himself by winning and then - AND THEN...dancing like he had ants in his pants.

That's the bottom line, Hou.

 

[houheffna]

I think Cowherd is right.

All those guys he referred to - the Stephon Marbury's if you will, the Steve Francis' if you will, what do those guys all share in common? They're all self-promoting, selfish, ball-hogging punks who are looking out for numero uno. They don't care about their team and certainly don't care about making everyone better.

What do all those other guys have in common - the Stockton's, the Magic's, the Isiah's...?

We never saw them do 35-second dance offs before the game. They were too focused on winning and making everyone on their team a better player. Only time we ever saw Isiah dance was after he made a game-winning shot. It wasn't before the game. He expressed himself by winning and then - AND THEN...dancing like he had ants in his pants.

That's the bottom line, Hou.

You, and Cowherd should understand that this guy is different from those guys. Stockton, Magic were different people. Mark Jackson danced, he is a HOFer. Larry Bird was a big time trash talker...and people knocked the no-look pass 25 years ago as too flashy.

Get with the times man, the bottom line is people can dance...and what difference does it make WHEN he dances?

Nobody tripped on Noah's pregame ritual or Rasheed Wallace dancing around before games...why not? A 19 year old does the Dougie, a nice dance, especially when I see ladies doing it. Wall is a young man who isn't old enough to go to the clubs yet. Is there something immoral about his dancing? Please tell me because I don't get it.

All of this is a bunch of stereotypical b.s. because a young black man dares to wear cornrows or dance pregame, he is selfish and don't want to win....GTFOH!

And by the way...watch Wall play basketball before putting down his game and his intentions on the court. He is a fantastic player who is destined for superstardom. If he falls short, I doubt it will be because of a pregame dance...that is just stupid...

 

[Lefty]

You, and Cowherd should understand that this guy is different from those guys. Stockton, Magic were different people. Mark Jackson danced, he is a HOFer. Larry Bird was a big time trash talker...and people knocked the no-look pass 25 years ago as too flashy.

Get with the times man, the bottom line is people can dance...and what difference does it make WHEN he dances?

Nobody tripped on Noah's pregame ritual or Rasheed Wallace dancing around before games...why not? A 19 year old does the Dougie, a nice dance, especially when I see ladies doing it. Wall is a young man who isn't old enough to go to the clubs yet. Is there something immoral about his dancing? Please tell me because I don't get it.

All of this is a bunch of stereotypical b.s. because a young black man dares to wear cornrows or dance pregame, he is selfish and don't want to win....GTFOH!

And by the way...watch Wall play basketball before putting down his game and his intentions on the court. He is a fantastic player who is destined for superstardom. If he falls short, I doubt it will be because of a pregame dance...that is just stupid...

Next he'll tell you about how "pure" the college game of basketball is because they "run plays" and "play defense" and all that stuff.

 

[houheffna]

Next he'll tell you about how "pure" the college game of basketball is because they "run plays" and "play defense" and all that stuff.

Or how the WNBA is more watchable. LOL...

 

[Frank Breakfast -Styleham]

The NBA would benefit by taking a close look at the college game. The way they run plays and play defense and all that stuff is what is currently lacking in the NBA (not to mention the way the WNBA plays).

I do agree with the assessment that a lot of the authority in professional sports are old white guys who are imposing THEIR sensibilities upon the predominately young black athlete.

It is not right for them to punish them for celebrating touchdowns creatively, penalizing them for self-expression or suspending them for them just being themselves.

There IS a line called EXCESSIVE self-expression where someone does so much expressing it becomes a distraction to the contest at hand (i.e. the Joe Horn cell phone incident).

Frankly, I would have liked Wall dancing - if it only lasted for 5-10 seconds. But it just went on and on and on and on...and on and on and on and after so long I'm thinking "Alright, just play basketball."

I'm with you on most of what you said, Hou. I would just like to see self-expression that doesn't delay everyone.

 

[Lefty]

Look, stop blowing this dance shit out of proportion, it went on for a maximum of thirty seconds, during introductions. Let's keep in mind that 1) it was thirty fucking seconds and 2) they're NBA pre-game introductions, and the #1 overall pick doing a little dance is hardly the most egregious violation of the "shut up and play basketball" mantra that grumpy old white guys use to veil their racism, have you watched a Lakers game recently, by chace?

 

[Lefty]

What limit the data like that? Is there some reason we should only look at some arbitrary subset of Marbury's career? No, there isn't, you're just being fucking stupid again. Go away.

 

[bennjuiced34]

LOL

John Wall was not the best player in College Basketball last year, but he was certainly the most hyped. Evan Turner was better than he was and had less talent around him.

Wall had 3 other 1st round picks around him (2 of which were lottery in Cousins/Patterson). Who was Turner's 1st Round teammate? William Buford?

John Wall certainly has a ton upside, but he has a ways to go in his development before he can take the step to the next level as a player.

 

[X]

LOL

John Wall was not the best player in College Basketball last year, but he was certainly the most hyped. Evan Turner was better than he was and had less talent around him.

Wall had 3 other 1st round picks around him (2 of which were lottery in Cousins/Patterson). Who was Turner's 1st Round teammate? William Buford?

John Wall certainly has a ton upside, but he has a ways to go in his development before he can take the step to the next level as a player.

Careful with that argument around here. A couple of these guys are trying to bash Cowherd, while at the same time making the same "I'm right because I just am and I can talk more than you" argument.

 

[Lefty]

LOL at "arbitrary". Derrick Rose has played 2 years in the NBA. I think your "career usage %" stat is somewhat worthless, don't you? Does Derrick Rose really have the sample size to make that statistic meaningful? Not in my opinion.

Where did I say that "Derrick Rose = Stephon Marbury" because of their usage rates? All I said was that, at present, there are undeniable parallels between what you can reasonably expect from the two. Never once did I say or imply that Rose will be considered the same exact player as Marbury once Rose's career is over.

 

[Lefty]

It's a real shame that you are allowed to breathe.

 

[Frank Breakfast -Styleham]

Sir, your language is offensive and I want to kindly ask you to watch your language on the forum.

What limit the data like that? Is there some reason we should only look at some arbitrary subset of Marbury's career? No, there isn't, you're just being fucking stupid again. Go away.

 

[Lefty]

Not happening.

 

[houheffna]

Careful with that argument around here. A couple of these guys are trying to bash Cowherd, while at the same time making the same "I'm right because I just am and I can talk more than you" argument.

I don't exactly know who you are talking about with this statement. But that is certainly not my premise concerning this subject.

You want me to be honest? It sounded pretty damn racist to me. Just throwing it out there and I would tell dude to his face. No problem. That is why I brought it up for discussion. I wanted others opinions on the matter...

 

[sicko]

it is about ENTERTAINING THE FANS! especially in Washington, a Organization that is trying to recover that the "Guns In The Locker Room" scandal from last season, sorry but this is not the DAMN 70's, 80's and 90's, you got a bunch of OLD MEN crying about how things USE TO BE...WELL TIMES HAS CHANGED!!! Don't remember anybody complaining about Reggie Millers little Pre-Game Michael Jackson dances back in the day lol

The kid danced then he went out and had a great game (besides the Turnovers), as long as he plays well he can do what ever the hell he wants DURING THE PREGAME

Wall is a STUD! Of Course he is going to have bad games and have issues with Turnovers...HE IS A ROOKIE!!! He will continue to get better and better with every game and Wall was FAR FROM "OVERRATED" and Kentucky, his team was LOADED so he couldn't be the player that he wanted to be so he played very UNSELFISH that entire season because he knew he had a good team around him with Cousins and Bledsoe and Patterson

Of Course I love Rose because I am a Bulls fans but I am not a Biased Fans, I enjoy watching those other great young PG's as well, Wall is extremely exciting to watch

Cowherd is a bitter jealous NERD, he hates most athletes and he bashes athletes every chance he gets so that is nothing new, probably one of those guys that got picked on by Jocks when he was in High School lol and he is still bitter over that

 

[Frank Breakfast -Styleham]

You may have swayed me there. If I was running the Wizards, I'd be a lot happier having John Wall (who is young and who may very well blossom into a very mature team-first point guard and Hou may be correct in his assessment that he may very well already be right now) than Gilbert Arenas.

Arenas is poison, he is a liar and he cannot be trusted at this point.

I forgot to consider that Wall is BRAND NEW to the league. Just 4 or 5 months ago he was a college student, barely out of High School.

I'm giving him 3 seasons and if he matures, I will have come around on the kid. I even remember Jordan pimp walking around at the slam dunk contest with more jewelry on than Mr. T.

Even the great ones start off immature but when I think about Wall dancing, I just see a guy whose happy to have the blessing to be in the NBA and make millions of dollars to throw a ball through the cylinder.

Now that I've slept on it, some of you have swayed me.

 

[Frank Breakfast -Styleham]

I suggest you reconsider. Don't take my proposal lightly.

Not happening.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

What do all those other guys have in common - the Stockton's, the Magic's, the Isiah's...?

We never saw them do 35-second dance offs before the game. They were too focused on winning and making everyone on their team a better player. Only time we ever saw Isiah dance was after he made a game-winning shot. It wasn't before the game. He expressed himself by winning and then - AND THEN...dancing like he had ants in his pants.

I know I shouldn't, but I can't resist your perfomance piece....

Anyways, how do you know John Wall isn't in winning or making those around him a better player?