Create your All-time Bulls Team

[Kush77]

Harper was still a beast on defense man. Like I said, he, Scottie, and Michael all could cover 3 positions (at least) between the 3 of them. All were incredibily long, tall, quick, scrappy, and on-ball guys.

That 1995 year was really the one season that the Bulls were out-of-sync from 1989-1999... They just lost Horace Grant and Scott Williams... they had NOBODY in the low-post... besides Pippen and Jordan (after he finally came back with 18 games left to play in the regular season).

Harper wasn't to blame for that year... the Bulls just run out of gas, and it is apparent if you watch that ORL Semi Final series...

I did watch the Orlando series, every minute of it. They lost to a better team, I don't think it was about running out of gas. And I don't blame Harper for the playoffs, because he never played. When MJ came back in 1995, Harper was on the bench and rarely left. Harper only played 40 min. in 6 games in the 95 playoffs, so I'm not blaming him for what happened vs. Orlando. I blame Harp for his poor play during the entire 1994-1995 regular season.

We still had BJ at the point and Jordan. And Harper played so poorly up until that point, it was easy for Phil to bench him. Harper's career with the Bulls was saved by Michael Jordan. Once Armstrong left, the Bulls put Harper at the point since the Bulls' offense never needed a true point guard. And it worked out.

I know the Bulls suffered from the loss of their two PFs, but that had nothing to do with how poorly Ron Harper played. He was given a big contract, for the time, something like 5 years 24 mil. and he didn't live up to it at all.

Harp averaged 6.9 ppg and shot 42% in 94-95, and he was the second highest paid player on the team after Kukoc I believe. Harper's signing would have been a 100% disaster if MJ had not come back.

As for his defense, he was asked to guard a lot of PG and he did a good job.

But when it comes to the career of Bulls' PG - the Chicago Bulls career specifically, I would take Norm Van Lier over Harper and Hinrich.

Norm was a 3-time all star with the Bulls. I know you said it's subjective, but he made it three times. Hinrich never came close to making an all-star team. But the stats you posted do show that they are pretty much the same scoring/shooting wise.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Well, I appreciate your post, and you make sense. I don't like comparing modern players to 1950s-70s players... but I will say that Hinrich was definitely the better scorer... hands-down. I've seen probably like 20-30 minutes worth of NVL over my whole life on youtube... granted, that isn't much... but I think the stats (and lack of stats) tell a big story.

NVL's turnovers were definitely much higher than 2.1 per-game over the course of his career. It was an impressive feat to be able to lead the NBA in scoring one season, but the games back then were generally played at a much faster pace than in the 90's and still to this day (even though pace has picked up since the slashing off the hand-checking & adding of the 3-in-the key rules). So NVL's stats may be a tad inflated. I may be wrong... but I have a feeling I am right...

And now that I think about it further... I think it's a tough 3-way call between Hinrich, Van Lier, and Harper... BJ and Paxson not too far behind... Kerr had 20% of the vote on that list... :smh: Like you said, Harper really wasn't actively involved in the offense and the triangle really put him in a very back-seat role... so I won't say Harper should be #1 on that list anymore.

But it all honesty, Rose wins.

 

[X]

Give me the 72-10 team....including Luc Longley.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Give me the 72-10 team....including Luc Longley.

lol Luc Longely at least was a lot better than Bill Wennington...

 

[X]

lol Luc Longely at least was a lot better than Bill Wennington...

I'll never forget Luc picking up a ball about 3 ft in front of the free throw line in a scrap...holding it up...taking about 5 steps...dunking it...and no call...

Jordan was daring the ref to call a walk....

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I'll never forget Luc picking up a ball about 3 ft in front of the free throw line in a scrap...holding it up...taking about 5 steps...dunking it...and no call...

Jordan was daring the ref to call a walk....

lol was that against the Sonics back in 1996? Gm 1 or 2... I remember something like that..

 

[X]

lol was that against the Sonics back in 1996? Gm 1 or 2... I remember something like that..

It was in 96...but that's all I remember...other than the play...hahaha...dude seriously had to take at least 5 or 6 steps...but it was such a scrap...like, 7 guys on the ground, Refs couldn't see his feet.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Bulls got all of the calls man... lol Jazz honestly got raped by the refs in gm 6 ('98). Phil, MJ, and Rodman would always be in the ref's ears demanding calls.

 

[Kush77]

Well, I appreciate your post, and you make sense. I don't like comparing modern players to 1950s-70s players... but I will say that Hinrich was definitely the better scorer... hands-down. I've seen probably like 20-30 minutes worth of NVL over my whole life on youtube... granted, that isn't much... but I think the stats (and lack of stats) tell a big story.

NVL's turnovers were definitely much higher than 2.1 per-game over the course of his career. It was an impressive feat to be able to lead the NBA in scoring one season, but the games back then were generally played at a much faster pace than in the 90's and still to this day (even though pace has picked up since the slashing off the hand-checking & adding of the 3-in-the key rules). So NVL's stats may be a tad inflated. I may be wrong... but I have a feeling I am right...

And now that I think about it further... I think it's a tough 3-way call between Hinrich, Van Lier, and Harper... BJ and Paxson not too far behind... Kerr had 20% of the vote on that list... :smh: Like you said, Harper really wasn't actively involved in the offense and the triangle really put him in a very back-seat role... so I won't say Harper should be #1 on that list anymore.

But it all honesty, Rose wins.

That is true, Norm had the advantage of things like hand-checking and playing much more physical without the threat of suspension.

I always thought Hinrich did do a good job of guarding Wade, if he go to some of the things like NVL could, he could have had even more success.

I also agree about Kerr. That 20% must be a result of being a fan favorite.

 

[houheffna]

I think it's a much tougher call than you are giving it credit for...

They both shot about the same FG%, but Kirk Hinrich attempted and made for shots. He was a higher volume scorer, and he scored more per-attempt because he played in the era of the 3-pt line (and was a much better long-range shooter than Norm).

I'm willing to grant you that Norm was the better passer and somewhat better defender (both being great defenders), but they were a very similar breed on defense... number of All-Star appearances and All-whatever NBA team Awards are all subjective, so I don't take them seriously.

It takes some thought, but I would take Hinrich over Van Lier.

No, no, no....you didn't just say Hinrich was as good as Van Lier defensively. And when did Hinrich become GREAT defensively? He made all NBA defense once!

Many who played in that era have stated that Sloan/Van Lier was THE BEST defensive backcourt in NBA history. And dismissing Norm's accomplishments comparable to Kirk's as subjective is also wrong, mainly because it is so lopsided in Norm's favor.

Harper is not worthy of conversation compared to Van Lier...not at all. You put Van Lier next to Jordan? Good God man! Van Lier didn't score at a high rate, but he had better scorers on his team than Hinrich. Van Lier was maybe the 4th option on those very good Bulls teams. Chet Walker and Bob Love were all star caliber forwards who both scored 20ppg.

By the way, its scary that at this point, some of you think Noah is a better player than Artis Gilmore, who is a borderline hall of fame player....absolutely scary...

 

[RC_Skinny22]

That background with the basket and the Bulls logo is nice. I made it my wallpaper!

 

[houheffna]

That is true, Norm had the advantage of things like hand-checking and playing much more physical without the threat of suspension.

I always thought Hinrich did do a good job of guarding Wade, if he go to some of the things like NVL could, he could have had even more success.

I also agree about Kerr. That 20% must be a result of being a fan favorite.

Yes, Hinrich was a good defensive player. Van Lier was a great defensive player. But its not like he came out wielding an ax every game. It still took skill and determination to play defense just as it does to be a good scorer.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

No, no, no....you didn't just say Hinrich was as good as Van Lier defensively. And when did Hinrich become GREAT defensively? He made all NBA defense once!

Many who played in that era have stated that Sloan/Van Lier was THE BEST defensive backcourt in NBA history. And dismissing Norm's accomplishments comparable to Kirk's as subjective is also wrong, mainly because it is so lopsided in Norm's favor.

Harper is not worthy of conversation compared to Van Lier...not at all. You put Van Lier next to Jordan? Good God man! Van Lier didn't score at a high rate, but he had better scorers on his team than Hinrich. Van Lier was maybe the 4th option on those very good Bulls teams. Chet Walker and Bob Love were all star caliber forwards who both scored 20ppg.

By the way, its scary that at this point, some of you think Noah is a better player than Artis Gilmore, who is a borderline hall of fame player....absolutely scary...

Honestly, I'm thinking in terms of the three-point era when I was deciding who to pick. I agree that I shouldn't have picked Harper over Van Lier... but I still go with Hinrich over Van Lier. I'm not trying to disrespect a Bulls' legend, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

 

[houheffna]

Understood...

 

[Diddy1122]

By the way, its scary that at this point, some of you think Noah is a better player than Artis Gilmore, who is a borderline hall of fame player....absolutely scary...

Anyone picking Noah over Gilmore is pretty much the definition of a basketball Special person.

The whole thing a popularity contest anyways. I'm a lil sad to see that the pride of Hersey High, Dave Corzine, was not on the list.

 

[TheStig]

That is true, Norm had the advantage of things like hand-checking and playing much more physical without the threat of suspension.

I always thought Hinrich did do a good job of guarding Wade, if he go to some of the things like NVL could, he could have had even more success.

I also agree about Kerr. That 20% must be a result of being a fan favorite.

A closer 3pt line, less athletic players and less competition would have given Kirk a huge boost. But you can only play in your era and Kirk just isn't that good. The guy is a 4th or 5th starter at best now.