Cubs have 7th best bullpen

Bear Pride

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Who was the guy who told me there were no meatballs on this board?

A pretty fuckin good rotation? Lester? Okay. He's good. Arrieta? Uhhhhh okay. He looks promising based on last year. Hammel? Uhhhhh no. An unknown toss up for the 4 and 5 spots? Not the sign of 'pretty fuckin good.'

The cubs maybe have the 3rd best rotation in the NL Central.

I don't know, who was the guy that told you there were no meatballs on the this board? Not me. I guess we'll see how the Cubs rotation does this year won't we? I'm assuming you're a Sox fan, and since both teams had the same record last year, I wonder what team's rotation improved more? I twill be fun finding out, huh? Right now, it's just your negative opinion, right?
 

Parade_Rain

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I'm curious about Rivero. Where does he fit in? Injury replacement for one of the 3 headed monster that ends the Cubs games? Or does someone get traded and he takes their place? Is he part of a trade?
 

Zvbxrpl

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I don't know, who was the guy that told you there were no meatballs on the this board? Not me. I guess we'll see how the Cubs rotation does this year won't we? I'm assuming you're a Sox fan, and since both teams had the same record last year, I wonder what team's rotation improved more? I twill be fun finding out, huh? Right now, it's just your negative opinion, right?

On the Cubs/White Sox thread someone told me.

I'm not a sox fan. I'm a realistic cubs fan who isn't infatuated by intentionally tanking for high draft picks when its no guaranteed method of "sustained success." Teams have been doing what the cubs just did for the last century and there's no guarantee of success. Minnesota bulk drafted bats high in the draft form 98-03. How many championships did it get them drafting Cuddyer, Mauer, BJ Darby, Dennard Span, Trevor Plouffe, and Matt Moses?

I'm negative because the cubs until a month and change ago gave me 3 years of reasons to be negative. They got a good manager and a great starting pitcher and a catcher who has half a clue on how to call a game.

Not everything Theo touches turns to gold, cupcake. This team has a lot of growing pains and frustration still to go through. We can hope it gets better.

:fap: away some more.
 

SilenceS

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I'm curious about Rivero. Where does he fit in? Injury replacement for one of the 3 headed monster that ends the Cubs games? Or does someone get traded and he takes their place? Is he part of a trade?

They traded back Vizcaino for a reason IMO. I think they like Rivero better. Guy is filthy, but has to keep his control in check. He could be part of a 4 headed monster or be there in case one faulters. I dont think the Cubs have any intention trading him unless he is part of a big deal.
 

CSF77

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I like the fact that they have 4 guys that can close out games. At this point they could eat Jackson's deal as he is not needed in the pen or in the rotation.

I believe Arrieta is the real deal. But I think they should hold the deck until the dead line. If they are in in then trade up for a TOR. If they are out of it then trading up for a young arm.

This year will be telling with the rotation. If Arrieta keeps his ERA around a 3 and Hammel around a 4 they are good. Hendricks IMO will bust. Talent will catch up with him.
 

JP Hochbaum

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On the Cubs/White Sox thread someone told me.

I'm not a sox fan. I'm a realistic cubs fan who isn't infatuated by intentionally tanking for high draft picks when its no guaranteed method of "sustained success." Teams have been doing what the cubs just did for the last century and there's no guarantee of success. Minnesota bulk drafted bats high in the draft form 98-03. How many championships did it get them drafting Cuddyer, Mauer, BJ Darby, Dennard Span, Trevor Plouffe, and Matt Moses?

I'm negative because the cubs until a month and change ago gave me 3 years of reasons to be negative. They got a good manager and a great starting pitcher and a catcher who has half a clue on how to call a game.

Not everything Theo touches turns to gold, cupcake. This team has a lot of growing pains and frustration still to go through. We can hope it gets better.

:fap: away some more.

Not a single person in the history of the world has said the Theoyer method is any guarantee of anything. Just that it increases chances and odds of being playoff contenders each and every year.
 

Bear Pride

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On the Cubs/White Sox thread someone told me.

I'm not a sox fan. I'm a realistic cubs fan who isn't infatuated by intentionally tanking for high draft picks when its no guaranteed method of "sustained success." Teams have been doing what the cubs just did for the last century and there's no guarantee of success. Minnesota bulk drafted bats high in the draft form 98-03. How many championships did it get them drafting Cuddyer, Mauer, BJ Darby, Dennard Span, Trevor Plouffe, and Matt Moses?

I'm negative because the cubs until a month and change ago gave me 3 years of reasons to be negative. They got a good manager and a great starting pitcher and a catcher who has half a clue on how to call a game.

Not everything Theo touches turns to gold, cupcake. This team has a lot of growing pains and frustration still to go through. We can hope it gets better.

:fap: away some more.

I'm glad to hear you're a Cubs fan. Go Cubs. i think you and me are just looking at things differently, that's all. While you look at the last 3 years as a negative, I look at them as a positive. You see, it's the prior 100 years that I didn't care for.

When Ricketts bought the Cubs, I was happy cuz the Trib ran the team like shit. I was a big fan of bringing in Theo. The main reason I don't get angry about the last 3 years is the Cubs didn't lie to me. They told me me they were gonna suck for 4 years.

Truth be told, I barely watched the Cubs compared to usual during the rebuild cuz the product flat out sucked. That was my choice. Again, I wasn't mad cuz they told me what was gonna happen.

However, it didn't take 4 years, we are going into the 4th year and the Cubs have a chance to compete. So far, Ricketts and Theo have done exactly what they told me they were gonna do. I respect this.

I do not think that we are guaranteed a WS cuz of any of this, but for the 1st time, the Cubs look to put a decent product on the field this year. They have rebuilt the team the proper way, starting with the #1 farm system.

They are proving to everyone that they are willing to spend money, now that they have it. They are even improving Wrigley field, which was a loooong time overdo. These are all things that have me excited as a Cubs fan. Do I think this guarantees anything? NO!

I do know one thing for sure. I will not let any pessimistic fans dictate how I feel about my team. And I choose to feel like there's a legit chance that the Cubs can compete THIS year. And I choose to be optimistic.

One more thing, you can call me cupcake all you want, but I'm sorry, I don't bat for that team. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
 

Zvbxrpl

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I'm cool with your post except one thing.....

When Ricketts bought the Cubs, I was happy cuz the Trib ran the team like shit. I was a big fan of bringing in Theo. The main reason I don't get angry about the last 3 years is the Cubs didn't lie to me. They told me me they were gonna suck for 4 years.

The Trib got this team as close as I've ever seen to a world series (I'm 26.) They got to the playoffs 3 times from 2000-2010 decade, something not too many teams can boast about. They brought an old, archaic type thinking about the game, kind of like the bears in the NFL--though the two teams were vastly different. They kept it simple, no advanced metrics/analytics--which I'm with Sir Charles Barkley about--they're misleading and fancy for the sake of being fancy.

FWIW, Charles said when someone asked him about analytics in the NBA: "All these guys who run these organizations who talk about analytics, they have one thing in common — they’re a bunch of guys who have never played the game, and they never got the girls in high school, and they just want to get in the game. They say that same crap in baseball, and they put these little lightweight teams together and they never win. They're always competitive to a certain degree and they don't win. It's the same thing in the NBA."

The first thing Theo/Ricketts did was lie. "The goal every year is to win the world series." And who could forget "every season is sacred"?

I knew the plan was to do the same thing--most people did, but they were anything but honest about it. They had season ticket holders to please and profits to make......
 

JP Hochbaum

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I'm cool with your post except one thing.....



The Trib got this team as close as I've ever seen to a world series (I'm 26.) They got to the playoffs 3 times from 2000-2010 decade, something not too many teams can boast about. They brought an old, archaic type thinking about the game, kind of like the bears in the NFL--though the two teams were vastly different. They kept it simple, no advanced metrics/analytics--which I'm with Sir Charles Barkley about--they're misleading and fancy for the sake of being fancy.

FWIW, Charles said when someone asked him about analytics in the NBA: "All these guys who run these organizations who talk about analytics, they have one thing in common — they’re a bunch of guys who have never played the game, and they never got the girls in high school, and they just want to get in the game. They say that same crap in baseball, and they put these little lightweight teams together and they never win. They're always competitive to a certain degree and they don't win. It's the same thing in the NBA."

The first thing Theo/Ricketts did was lie. "The goal every year is to win the world series." And who could forget "every season is sacred"?

I knew the plan was to do the same thing--most people did, but they were anything but honest about it. They had season ticket holders to please and profits to make......

Except that they do win. The A's have survived with it for two decades, and the Red Sox, Cardinals, and GIants are perennial winners that rely on OBP and these metrics.
 

Zvbxrpl

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Except that they do win. The A's have survived with it for two decades, and the Red Sox, Cardinals, and GIants are perennial winners that rely on OBP and these metrics.

How many championships has it won the A's?

Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain were seen as high risk players coming out of Washington and High School in.......wherever Matt Cain is from. Lincecum especially. Giants won twice. Pat Burrell struck out like crazy. Panda Sandoval isn't a sabremetrics star either. Nor Benji Molina.

It hasn't worked for the Rays, either. With their daunting 0 championships.

The Cards aren't either. Wacha was high risk, like Chris Sale with the 'inverted W' throwing motion linked heavily in many TJ cases. Chris Carpenter was a castaway with terrible mechanics and even worse sabremetrics in Toronto before he met Dave Duncan. Yadier Molina was typical Latin ball player at the plate, aggressive and swings. Pujols wasn't really a walk taking guy from 01-05, he was a stereotypical Latin player with great talent that swung the bat. But after 06-09 where he had 90-100 walks a season, he went back to being the free swinging guy in his declining in Anaheim.

The point is, you need a little bit of both. You need a free swinger like a Starlin Castro, but you also need guys who can get on base/work a count 7+ pitches.

But most of all, you need talent. Sabremetrics doesn't see talent, a clutch RBI sac fly isn't accounted for when it wins you the game. It will tell me how many times it walks though.

And it is a nice tool for pending free agents to use as a buffer for a new, big contract.
 

Bear Pride

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I'm cool with your post except one thing.....



The Trib got this team as close as I've ever seen to a world series (I'm 26.) They got to the playoffs 3 times from 2000-2010 decade, something not too many teams can boast about. They brought an old, archaic type thinking about the game, kind of like the bears in the NFL--though the two teams were vastly different. They kept it simple, no advanced metrics/analytics--which I'm with Sir Charles Barkley about--they're misleading and fancy for the sake of being fancy.

FWIW, Charles said when someone asked him about analytics in the NBA: "All these guys who run these organizations who talk about analytics, they have one thing in common — they’re a bunch of guys who have never played the game, and they never got the girls in high school, and they just want to get in the game. They say that same crap in baseball, and they put these little lightweight teams together and they never win. They're always competitive to a certain degree and they don't win. It's the same thing in the NBA."

The first thing Theo/Ricketts did was lie. "The goal every year is to win the world series." And who could forget "every season is sacred"?

I knew the plan was to do the same thing--most people did, but they were anything but honest about it. They had season ticket holders to please and profits to make......

Couple of points here for me. I find it kind of funny, myself, that someone speaks about "old, archaic type thinking", when they likely have never known life w/o the internet. :D You likely have never spent too much of your life w/o social media.

Also, if you think Theo lied to you, then I suggest you can't read between the lines. Ricketts provided no resources for him to do anything more than what he did. He never tried to tank so much as didn't have the weapons to do any better.

When he did acquire a pitcher or two that excelled, that's where he sold at the trade deadline. It was pretty obvious that they were rebuilding. They put their money into the farm system and scouting department and not into the big league team.

As far as the metrics convo ..... I pretty much agree with Barkley in a way. I'm more old fashioned as he is. I played the game at a high level and have taped up my share of pimply faced nerds along the way. I will alway believe in Heart, talent, and good old fashioned competitiveness over any type of metric.

But as I look at social media today and shake my head with utter disgust, I also realize that it's part of the new generation, just like saber metrics is. The key is to look at it as a tool, and not a way of life.

Any "weighted average" can manipulate a sample of stats, but the art is to understand raw stats for what they are worth. If you can do this, there is no reason that it can't be a good tool to help look at things in a different way.

Lastly, I always trust my eyes the most, just like when I played the game. I see what is going on on the field, and last year, I saw the best Cubs baseball I've seen in a while, mostly in the 2nd half. I also see what the Cubs are building as an organization.

I see them trying to correct the bullshit rooftop issues. I see them finally updating a shitty Wrigley field. I see them spending money now that they have it. I see them making the moves that are going to make the team better. And I've seen them do all this within the timeframe they told me they would.

I, for one, will continue to be optimistic with the product that they are putting on the field this coming year. And most of all, as I said before, I refuse to let weak minded people sway my optimism cuz they don't have the faith that the Cubs are not trying to do the "right thing".
 

JP Hochbaum

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How many championships has it won the A's?

Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain were seen as high risk players coming out of Washington and High School in.......wherever Matt Cain is from. Lincecum especially. Giants won twice. Pat Burrell struck out like crazy. Panda Sandoval isn't a sabremetrics star either. Nor Benji Molina.

It hasn't worked for the Rays, either. With their daunting 0 championships.

The Cards aren't either. Wacha was high risk, like Chris Sale with the 'inverted W' throwing motion linked heavily in many TJ cases. Chris Carpenter was a castaway with terrible mechanics and even worse sabremetrics in Toronto before he met Dave Duncan. Yadier Molina was typical Latin ball player at the plate, aggressive and swings. Pujols wasn't really a walk taking guy from 01-05, he was a stereotypical Latin player with great talent that swung the bat. But after 06-09 where he had 90-100 walks a season, he went back to being the free swinging guy in his declining in Anaheim.

The point is, you need a little bit of both. You need a free swinger like a Starlin Castro, but you also need guys who can get on base/work a count 7+ pitches.

But most of all, you need talent. Sabremetrics doesn't see talent, a clutch RBI sac fly isn't accounted for when it wins you the game. It will tell me how many times it walks though.

And it is a nice tool for pending free agents to use as a buffer for a new, big contract.
You are focusing on the two small market teams who relied SOLELY on building the farm so of course they failed. Stop cherry picking its dishonest.
 

Parade_Rain

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My favorite teams
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The Tribune Company? The same company that brought Cubs fans Milton Bradley, because the GM had a nice dinner with him? Awesome eyeballs there. And the Sabers don't work, lack of championships is mentioned, yet the eyeball method in Wrigley is beloved because it "got this team as close as I've ever seen to a world series" and "to the playoffs 3 times". Those are contradictory positions there. One can't argue success is only championships and then support a different method that didn't win a championship.
 

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