Cubs Interested in Shin-Soo Choo

[SilenceS]

There's a difference between seeing some time and being an every day starter. Baez ATM probably has the best shot of any to break camp with the cubs and even on him they sound hesitant. That being said, you're probably right that they get called up post Super 2 timing. But even then, they aren't really blocked by signing Choo. And even if they were, it's easy for them to move a bat like Schierholtz at the trade dead line to free up a spot. Even if he's not as good as he was this year, he's a decent bat off the bench.

That's all I'm saying. I think Choo works because a 4 year window gives them the option to slow down the elevation of a lot of their prospects. It's not a case of Rizzo or Castro where they need to promote guys because they have nothing else. The worst case scenario is they have no spot and then they need to move Choo. He'll be cheaper than Soriano and they can eat a small portion of his contract to move him if they have to. If he's making say $13 mil a year you can eat $15 mil after 2 years and get something back for him if you have to.

Once anyone of those prospects I name come up. They will play everyday, but no, none of them will break camp.

 

[daddies3angels]

I love how Barney being talked about that he going to be part of future. He a bench player at most. Prolly shouldnt be on MLB roster. He cant hit water if he fell out of a boat

 

[Parade_Rain]

Agreed. Barney is a bench player. He's one who could play multiple spots if required.

 

[CSF77]

4 year deal at 15 mil avg is what I expect he asks for. IMO no. Lead off should be addressed last. They need a legit #1 and a stable pen first. Then they need a true #4hitter. Right now they are depending on unproven core hitters. If the back up catcher is hitting 3-5 there are some issues going on. Again I would rather keep payroll down and with short term contract. When the youth filters up next year and Sori's deal is off the books then they can reevaluate what they need. Signing Choo just plugs a shinny new lead off with the same crap going on.

 

[TL1961]

Look at Choo's numbers, and explain to me why anyone would invest any real $ in him.

Doesn't drive in many runs or score many. BA is so-so, and no real power for a corner OF. (or even for a CF, to be honest)

What skill set is it that he brings? Schierholtz numbers are much better. Someone suggested signing Choo, and when prospects came up, Schierholtz moves out, but he is as good as Choo and Choo would cost more $ and a long commitment.

Pass.

 

[beckdawg]

Look at Choo's numbers, and explain to me why anyone would invest any real $ in him.

Doesn't drive in many runs or score many. BA is so-so, and no real power for a corner OF. (or even for a CF, to be honest)

Choo plays good defense and gets on base. He's a #1 or #2 hitter. The problem the cubs have isn't power. They are second in the NL in HR's last i looked. They are bottom 5 in the majors at getting on base. Choo is one of the best in the league at getting on base(4th behind Votto, Cabrera and Trout). So, he holds value. But like I said, he's not a $15 mil a year guy and if he gets that it better not be from the cubs.

 

[CSF77]

Dejesus was running a .350 OBA. The problem was with Castro and Rizzo. Rizzo was hitting .167 ish with guys in scoring. Castro never was a OBA guy. So that theory is lacking. Going into next year they need a solid 1/2 in the line up for sure. But the real problem was with Rizzo. To be honest Rizzo hitting #2 is not dumb. He takes walks.

 

[dabynsky]

Look at Choo's numbers, and explain to me why anyone would invest any real $ in him.

Doesn't drive in many runs or score many. BA is so-so, and no real power for a corner OF. (or even for a CF, to be honest)

What skill set is it that he brings? Schierholtz numbers are much better. Someone suggested signing Choo, and when prospects came up, Schierholtz moves out, but he is as good as Choo and Choo would cost more $ and a long commitment.

Pass.

The skillset Choo brings is drawing walks. He does everyone Schierholtz does except he draws more walks. Which is why his career OBP is .386 and Schierholtz's best season (not counting 19 games in 2008 as a season) is .326. So Choo's career average OBP is 60 points better better than Schierholtz's best season. That is why I would be willing to give him a Swisher type deal. If he is going well beyond in years or AAV of Swishers than sure pass, but his skillset is exactly what this lineup needs.

 

[Shawon0Meter]

I look forward to having Shin-Soo Choo on the Cubs for 4 months until he's traded for a 26 year old A-ball pitcher or PTBNL

 

[CSF77]

The skillset Choo brings is drawing walks. He does everyone Schierholtz does except he draws more walks. Which is why his career OBP is .386 and Schierholtz's best season (not counting 19 games in 2008 as a season) is .326. So Choo's career average OBP is 60 points better better than Schierholtz's best season. That is why I would be willing to give him a Swisher type deal. If he is going well beyond in years or AAV of Swishers than sure pass, but his skillset is exactly what this lineup needs.

Choo
Career OBA: .386 SB: 99 So not much of a SB threat. So in 3539 career PA he has 421 BB or a 11.9% walk rate.


Luis Valbuena:

1443 PA 138 BB 9.6% BB rate.

So could be a decent 1/2 combo if they move Valbuena over to 2B

Now I wouldn't start to compare Choo too Schierholtz. Nate has a gun in RF. Arguably the best in the game.

If they went this direction:

Choo LF
Lake CF
Schierholtz RF (Ideal platoon partner would be Francour to keep 2 top arms in RF)

I would think of this situation if they did this:

1. Choo LF
2. Valbuena 2B VS RH pitching. Lake CF vs LH pitching
3. Rizzo (they need to get his bat working)
4. Olt 3B (need to see if he can cut it regardless on potential power good for now)
5. Schierholtz/Francour RF
6. Castro SS
7. Lake CF RH pitching/Castillo C LH pitching
8. Castillo C RH /Barney 2B LH

This would work until Baez gets promoted. At that point they are going to have to make some tough choices. Then Bryant probley next year also. That one is easier to make with the RF platoon or if Olt fails.

My problem is if Choo can not man CF it is alot to spend for a limited power corner OF. At least Schierholtz is hitting HR's at 1 out of 19 AB's vs Choo's 1 out of 29 AB's.

 

[dabynsky]

Choo
Career OBA: .386 SB: 99 So not much of a SB threat. So in 3539 career PA he has 421 BB or a 11.9% walk rate.


Luis Valbuena:

1443 PA 138 BB 9.6% BB rate.

So could be a decent 1/2 combo if they move Valbuena over to 2B

Now I wouldn't start to compare Choo too Schierholtz. Nate has a gun in RF. Arguably the best in the game.

If they went this direction:

Choo LF
Lake CF
Schierholtz RF (Ideal platoon partner would be Francour to keep 2 top arms in RF)

I would think of this situation if they did this:

1. Choo LF
2. Valbuena 2B VS RH pitching. Lake CF vs LH pitching
3. Rizzo (they need to get his bat working)
4. Olt 3B (need to see if he can cut it regardless on potential power good for now)
5. Schierholtz/Francour RF
6. Castro SS
7. Lake CF RH pitching/Castillo C LH pitching
8. Castillo C RH /Barney 2B LH

This would work until Baez gets promoted. At that point they are going to have to make some tough choices. Then Bryant probley next year also. That one is easier to make with the RF platoon or if Olt fails.

My problem is if Choo can not man CF it is alot to spend for a limited power corner OF. At least Schierholtz is hitting HR's at 1 out of 19 AB's vs Choo's 1 out of 29 AB's.

The comparison was on offense, though Choo isn't a bad defender in the corners either. And I would trade the gun for the OBP every day of the week.

 

[beckdawg]

My problem is if Choo can not man CF it is alot to spend for a limited power corner OF. At least Schierholtz is hitting HR's at 1 out of 19 AB's vs Choo's 1 out of 29 AB's.

Why not? He is doing it this year. And if the cubs were to sign him he would be playing half his games in wrigley which is far from a difficult place to man. His biggest limitation appears to be his range based off his defensive metrics. But like I said, there aren't many big outfields to worry about in the central. Also, you can move him around with Lake when you need to. Schierholtz has above average range in RF. If you assume Lake's going to play a lot he's also got above average range.

Either way, you're buying Choo for his bat. And even if he's a question defensively, you may consider ignoring it to get a better bat into the line up. And as for the power, the cubs have that. The problem is they are HR or nothing.

 

[TL1961]

Signing a guy who is a question defensively, and putting him in an OF with Lake is not a good thing.

 

[Parade_Rain]

The more arguments with facts posted here, the more I think I'd take a pass on bringing in another FA outfielder.

 

[dabynsky]

Signing a guy who is a question defensively, and putting him in an OF with Lake is not a good thing.

He isn't a question defensively in the corners. He is at worst an average defender in the corner, but I think an argument could be made for plus. His problem on defense is similar to DeJesus in that he really doesn't have the range to play center, but has enough range to not embarass himself out there.

 

[CSF77]

He isn't a question defensively in the corners. He is at worst an average defender in the corner, but I think an argument could be made for plus. His problem on defense is similar to DeJesus in that he really doesn't have the range to play center, but has enough range to not embarass himself out there.

He would end up in LF here. Again I would rather have LF open for Baez if needed.

 

[chibears55]

doubt their that interested in choo, maybe as a back up if they dont sign ellsbury..

 

[dabynsky]

He would end up in LF here. Again I would rather have LF open for Baez if needed.

Fair but I think Baez can stay in the infield no problem here (honestly would love to see him moved to second). Choo offers the exact skillset we lack and has been a very good offensive player for a long time. I personally see the bidding getting crazy for him, but maybe the draft pick compensation keeps it reasonable. If everyone develops there are ways to shuffle the roster around, with Choo on a three or four year deal.

 

[TL1961]

doubt their that interested in choo, maybe as a back up if they dont sign ellsbury..

Ellsbury can't hit or field. No thanks!

 

[beckdawg]

He would end up in LF here. Again I would rather have LF open for Baez if needed.

Baez isn't leaving the infield. Bryant? In an ideal world where Olt is 3B then maybe. The bigger question is if Schierholtz is a long term plan or not. If he's just a guy for next year it is easy. You play Choo in LF Lake in CF and Schierholtz in RF. Then the following year you move Choo to RF and probably Bryant in LF with Lake in CF.

However right now there's a ton of uncertainty. We very well could end up seeing something like Bryant at 3B, Baez at SS, and Castro at 2B. That's the point I'm making here. You have no real idea what 2 years from now will hold. And this blocking prospect idea is silly. If it comes to that point where he is you just trade away someone. Clearly they were able to deal Soriano and Dejesus so why wouldn't they be able to deal Choo?

It'd be different if all of these highly touted prospects were ready for the majors but they aren't. Baez is the only one the organization is even hinting at maybe having a shot to break camp. And even he still has stuff to work on most notably his defense. You could argue in a better team Rizzo and Castro could still be in the minors but since there's no one in front of them there's no reason for them not to be in the majors. Profar has been arguably one of the best prospects in baseball the past 3 years and only now is seeing time in the majors.

At the very least, you got 2 years before you're realistically worrying about prospects being blocked and that's if everyone progresses. 2 years would be half of the contract choo gets. In years 3-4 you get the option of leaving guys to mature more or if you need to move him do so.