Cubs offseason needs/ Talk

[SilenceS]

Let's say they got Bogaerts. Add Mervis. And resign Contreras. The line up would be RH heavy. That point you would want a DH that could balance the line up.

Regardless Jed has work to do. If the signs are showing spend he really needs to make a impactful addition

They arent resigning Contreras. They are riding with Gomes and Amaya when he returns from ankle surgery. Contreras isnt in the Cubs future unless the market wants nothing to do with him.

Mervis bats left handed.

The Cubs would plug in lefties but the whole notion of rightie leftie lineup is way overrated especially now that bullpen guys have to ptch to 3 batters no matter what

 

[CSF77]

Seriously.

Imagine if you landed Judge and Ohtani and Rodon?!

Don’t you think you would sell about the same number of home tickets, and finish third or fourth still?

Long ways to go in this “rebuild.” No guarantee you ever come out the other side. That’s why I hate these tear downs.

Well to put it in my 'personal' opinion. (Realty be damned)

2B Turner
LF Happ
3B Bogaerts
DH Bell
C Contreras
1B Mervis
RF Suzuki
CF Crow-Armstrong (F-it. Platoon with Davis)
SS Hoerner

Pitching I am ok with. In a F-it scenerio then Rodon is #1 on the list.

In a real scenerio. I kinda expect Jed to pump up pitching depth. That has been his MO. He would be smart to keep low pressure on Hayden, Mervis and Davis for their rookie years. If the season justifies a add then spend in July.

That is what I expect to be honest.

 

[CSF77]

They arent resigning Contreras. They are riding with Gomes and Amaya when he returns from ankle surgery. Contreras isnt in the Cubs future unless the market wants nothing to do with him.

Mervis bats left handed.

The Cubs would plug in lefties but the whole notion of rightie leftie lineup is way overrated especially now that bullpen guys have to ptch to 3 batters no matter what

Amaya is a major reach. Not proven. Not back. And was falling in the rankings even before injury. He is not a guy to hang your hat on. Even Marquez has fallen out of favor due to his injury track record post COVID.

So ya this is a game of what have you done for me lately. Amaya is not the answer at catcher. He has to prove that he can be a answer. Sitting in Tenn on the DL is not getting it done.

That said. We never know. Jed could have sold and chose not to. So after that decision was made I wouldn't bank on anything.

 

[SilenceS]

Amaya is a major reach. Not proven. Not back. And was falling in the rankings even before injury. He is not a guy to hang your hat on. Even Marquez has fallen out of favor due to his injury track record post COVID.

So ya this is a game of what have you done for me lately. Amaya is not the answer at catcher. He has to prove that he can be a answer. Sitting in Tenn on the DL is not getting it done.

That said. We never know. Jed could have sold and chose not to. So after that decision was made I wouldn't bank on anything.

Amaya was going to play in the Arizona Fall League to get ready for next season to try to break camp with the Cubs. His bat was on fire. He has not fallen out of favor with anyone and was even told by Contreras the team is going to be his. The Cubs love him

 

[Diehardfan]

They arent resigning Contreras. They are riding with Gomes and Amaya when he returns from ankle surgery. Contreras isnt in the Cubs future unless the market wants nothing to do with him.

Mervis bats left handed.

The Cubs would plug in lefties but the whole notion of rightie leftie lineup is way overrated especially now that bullpen guys have to ptch to 3 batters no matter what

You speak like you are THEE authority on Cubs catching. The fact is Amaya hasn't hit well on any level he's played. .240ish with little or no power and now starting to build a history of injuries. Also, he is no longer the top catching prospect in their system dropping behind another kid who looks like a better bat but is a few years away. What makes you or your inside knowledge of what the Cubs "love" believe Amaya will suddenly be able to hit ML pitching after failing to hit in A and AA ball? Gomes, while an excellent backup, is no every day catcher......that's putting a hell of a lot of heat on a kid that's wildly unproven.

I have no inside scoop to reveal but I think they re-sign Contreras.

 

[SilenceS]

You speak like you are THEE authority on Cubs catching. The fact is Amaya hasn't hit well on any level he's played. .240ish with little or no power and now starting to build a history of injuries. Also, he is no longer the top catching prospect in their system dropping behind another kid who looks like a better bat but is a few years away. What makes you or your inside knowledge of what the Cubs "love" believe Amaya will suddenly be able to hit ML pitching after failing to hit in A and AA ball? Gomes, while an excellent backup, is no every day catcher......that's putting a hell of a lot of heat on a kid that's wildly unproven.

I have no inside scoop to reveal but I think they re-sign Contreras.

My inside knowledge? Reading the internet and the Cubs talking about him.

He is a defensive first catcher who's bat was raking until ankle injury on slide.

And what is this injury prone? He had Tommy John and now hurt his ankle avoiding a slide.

You are going by wishes that Contreras comes back. Im telling you what the Cubs envisioned.

Gomes was signed to move on from Contreras and to issue in Amaya.

Willson Contreras Told Miguel Amaya to Be As Ready As Possible to Be the Future Cubs Catcher - Bleacher Nation

Contreras is a good veteran leader. But it's a reminder that the Cubs have huge catcher questions after this year.

www.bleachernation.com

So, instead of being pissy that you dont agree with someone. Have something more than a wish and a prayer and insider knowlege. Its been there for a year or longer.

Also, not the top catching prospect? LOL He missed a year and went one behind an 18 year old in A ball. lol

 

[Castor76]

Let's try to get realistic about the Cubs catching situation for 2023 and beyond. How do they get better than bringing back Contreras? They don't have a true player on the farm we can trust to be better or even as good. If they did give up on him offensively to get someone better at framing at other things defensively, they have to make up the offense somewhere. I'm a believer in giving Mervis the shot at 1B. Still, the Cubs will need to do more. If, and only if, the Cubs wanted to start a window of contention in 2023, they'd need to upgrade 3 spots in the batting order. If Mervis is one of them, that still leaves 2. The outfield seems set for the next few years as between who is on roster and looking like they'll be up in 23 or 24. Nico seems to have made himself into a good enough bat. That leaves 1B, 2B, 3B, and C as the spots to get those 3 upgrades. 1B should be Mervis. If they bring back Contreras, that's C. If they don't, then they need to find definite upgrades at 3B and 2B. Unless they go crazy to get Arenado or move someone to 3B, that isn't happening via FA. Now. maybe the Padres get scared because Machado can opt out after next season and put him on the market. Soto has his final season of Arb coming up. tatis Jr has the rest of his suspension. But that's probably a pipe dream too. So the mostly likely way is to either sign a SS to move to 3B or move Hoerner to 2B and deal with Wisdom batting much lower in the line up.

Trade market for Contreras seemed non-existent or at least not good enough. who knows what he'd take/want to stay for 3-5 years.

 

[SilenceS]

Let's try to get realistic about the Cubs catching situation for 2023 and beyond. How do they get better than bringing back Contreras? They don't have a true player on the farm we can trust to be better or even as good. If they did give up on him offensively to get someone better at framing at other things defensively, they have to make up the offense somewhere. I'm a believer in giving Mervis the shot at 1B. Still, the Cubs will need to do more. If, and only if, the Cubs wanted to start a window of contention in 2023, they'd need to upgrade 3 spots in the batting order. If Mervis is one of them, that still leaves 2. The outfield seems set for the next few years as between who is on roster and looking like they'll be up in 23 or 24. Nico seems to have made himself into a good enough bat. That leaves 1B, 2B, 3B, and C as the spots to get those 3 upgrades. 1B should be Mervis. If they bring back Contreras, that's C. If they don't, then they need to find definite upgrades at 3B and 2B. Unless they go crazy to get Arenado or move someone to 3B, that isn't happening via FA. Now. maybe the Padres get scared because Machado can opt out after next season and put him on the market. Soto has his final season of Arb coming up. tatis Jr has the rest of his suspension. But that's probably a pipe dream too. So the mostly likely way is to either sign a SS to move to 3B or move Hoerner to 2B and deal with Wisdom batting much lower in the line up.

Trade market for Contreras seemed non-existent or at least not good enough. who knows what he'd take/want to stay for 3-5 years.

It wasnt worth more than his compensation. Contreras only comes back if its a real deal for the Cubs. You dont put a guy through what they put him through just tot urn around and go we were just playing. Here is the contract ya want.

As for C, you dont need an offensive juggernaut at catcher. You need a pitch framer. Amaya and Gomes check that box. Willy really doesnt.

The Cubs have invested a lot of time and money into Amaya. He is also on the 40 man. There is no way he isnt with the team with the next year or so barring injuries.

He was going to the AFL to start catching again. He was smoking the ball when he came back.

It will figure itself out, but I feel this Contreras resigning is just not realistic.

 

[Castor76]

It wasnt worth more than his compensation. Contreras only comes back if its a real deal for the Cubs. You dont put a guy through what they put him through just tot urn around and go we were just playing. Here is the contract ya want.

As for C, you dont need an offensive juggernaut at catcher. You need a pitch framer. Amaya and Gomes check that box. Willy really doesnt.

The Cubs have invested a lot of time and money into Amaya. He is also on the 40 man. There is no way he isnt with the team with the next year or so barring injuries.

He was going to the AFL to start catching again. He was smoking the ball when he came back.

It will figure itself out, but I feel this Contreras resigning is just not realistic.

I can understand that, but it doesn't change that the Cubs will have to get offensive increase at another position. So if you're giving up O at catcher, I'm presuming you agree with going with Mervis at 1B. If Davis is joining the OF next year, the Cubs will still have 2B, 3B, and DH to shore up the O. It will have to be at 2 of those at least.

 

[SilenceS]

I can understand that, but it doesn't change that the Cubs will have to get offensive increase at another position. So if you're giving up O at catcher, I'm presuming you agree with going with Mervis at 1B. If Davis is joining the OF next year, the Cubs will still have 2B, 3B, and DH to shore up the O. It will have to be at 2 of those at least.

I totally agree. I think we see Mervis and Davis. I think they go after a big name.

 

[Diehardfan]

My inside knowledge? Reading the internet and the Cubs talking about him.

He is a defensive first catcher who's bat was raking until ankle injury on slide.

And what is this injury prone? He had Tommy John and now hurt his ankle avoiding a slide.

You are going by wishes that Contreras comes back. Im telling you what the Cubs envisioned.

Gomes was signed to move on from Contreras and to issue in Amaya.

Willson Contreras Told Miguel Amaya to Be As Ready As Possible to Be the Future Cubs Catcher - Bleacher Nation

Contreras is a good veteran leader. But it's a reminder that the Cubs have huge catcher questions after this year.

www.bleachernation.com

So, instead of being pissy that you dont agree with someone. Have something more than a wish and a prayer and insider knowlege. Its been there for a year or longer.

Also, not the top catching prospect? LOL He missed a year and went one behind an 18 year old in A ball. lol

Raking.....in the Arizona League. BWAHAHA

Last I heard Tommy John, a fractured ankle and a dislocated finger (throwing hand) were all injuries...pretty big ones, too.

Wow, what a great way to decide who catches....the guy who can do a better job of making umpires look stupid.

But thanks for enlightening everyone that all you do is search the net.....like everyone else does. You got a way of stating
points like a Mr. Know-it-all....which you clearly are not. Guess work.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I totally agree. I think we see Mervis and Davis. I think they go after a big name.

And lose Contreras?

Cool…maybe you can beat up on teams that are building for next year when they play sub .500 teams late in year again.

 

[Castor76]

Let's go down the "Don't bring back Contreras but start making a run in 2023" rabbit hole . That means the Cubs need to upgrade 3 spots in the batting order and add some LH/S to the line up.

The Cubs have an estimated payroll of $107.5M according to baseball prospectus for 2023. The CBT is set at 232M. So adding 110M should be no problem. I would target Turner for SS to move Hoerner to 2B and have Turner bat lead off. He probably costs a 27M AAV. Josh Bell does make sense to bring in for DH and can be a LH bat. He can also play 1B if Mervis doesn't work out and needs to go back to AAA. With Mervis being my upgrade at 1B, the line up is about as set as we can expect.

The rotation would need an upgrade as well. Rodon is the only FA SP imo worth going after. So he might fetch a high price than expected. Last year he got a 22M deal. This offseason, he's probably looking 28M with almost the same value.

Those 3 players would cost as estimated 73M. It might top out about 80M.

The projected line up

Turner SS
Hoerner 2B
Happ LF
Bell DH
Suzuki RF
Mervis 1B
Wisdom 3B
Davis CF
Amaya C

Of course if the Cubs wanted to really go for it and try to sign one more player just to maximize their trade potential in later years, what would you all think about trying to sign Brandon Nimmo to play center and bat lead moving Turner to the #2 spot, Hoerner to the #7, and Wisdom to #8? He could cost up to 25M but I would hope a 22M AAV would get him. So if my hopes came true, that'd be 4 players for 95M AAV. Still plenty to add to the pen or at the trade deadline.

 

[CSF77]

well looking over the 2nd half SP stats:

Sampson: 2.99 ERA 69.1 IP. Key stat .255 BAA. A bit of luck going on with him.
Stroman 2.92 77 IP .239 BAA Getting what they paid for.
Smyly 2.82 54.1 IP .211 BAA. Making a strong case for a opt pull.
Assad .362 ERA .244 BAA. His WHIP is at 1.55. He is on thin ice as is much less when the book is in on him.
Steele .98 ERA 36.2 IP .235 11.99 SO/9 is pushing his game up to past his expected potential. He is maturing rather nicely.
Thompson 4.35 ERA 31 IP in the pen and as a starter. .242 BAA. Really not a SO pitcher. Under 1 per inning. I would say pen arm right now.
Miley 3.94 ERA 16 IP .246 BAA. When healthy his number are pretty solid. 1 K per inning. Healthy part is the real issue.
Wesneski 2.33 ERA 27 IP .200 BAA. Guy has TOR upside maybe ace level talent. Might be a bit early but he is checking the boxes and looks like a steal.

You add Hendricks to this and TBH you are looking at a solid rotation and middle relief core. Assad should be in AAA. I don't think that he is MLB talent. Sampson is a late bloom. He might be good in a inning stint where his slider becomes his primary out pitch.

This is the reason why they are winning. It has been stable in a unstable strike year. They should only get better.

Thus I don't see a glaring need for a rotation investment.

 

[Diehardfan]

well looking over the 2nd half SP stats:

Sampson: 2.99 ERA 69.1 IP. Key stat .255 BAA. A bit of luck going on with him.
Stroman 2.92 77 IP .239 BAA Getting what they paid for.
Smyly 2.82 54.1 IP .211 BAA. Making a strong case for a opt pull.
Assad .362 ERA .244 BAA. His WHIP is at 1.55. He is on thin ice as is much less when the book is in on him.
Steele .98 ERA 36.2 IP .235 11.99 SO/9 is pushing his game up to past his expected potential. He is maturing rather nicely.
Thompson 4.35 ERA 31 IP in the pen and as a starter. .242 BAA. Really not a SO pitcher. Under 1 per inning. I would say pen arm right now.
Miley 3.94 ERA 16 IP .246 BAA. When healthy his number are pretty solid. 1 K per inning. Healthy part is the real issue.
Wesneski 2.33 ERA 27 IP .200 BAA. Guy has TOR upside maybe ace level talent. Might be a bit early but he is checking the boxes and looks like a steal.

You add Hendricks to this and TBH you are looking at a solid rotation and middle relief core. Assad should be in AAA. I don't think that he is MLB talent. Sampson is a late bloom. He might be good in a inning stint where his slider becomes his primary out pitch.

This is the reason why they are winning. It has been stable in a unstable strike year. They should only get better.

Thus I don't see a glaring need for a rotation investment.

Steele became a different pitcher after a talk with Jon Lester.....not a bad guy to talk shop with. I doubt Miley will be back. Don't forget
Kilian.....this kid had a history of great control until he got here. Unless he pulled a Steve Blass, he should be considered. Assad is another Swarmer....a novelty that should not be a Cub in 2023.

 

[Diehardfan]

And lose Contreras?

Cool…maybe you can beat up on teams that are building for next year when they play sub .500 teams late in year again.

Interesting theory......try explaining why the White Sox, who most considered to be a contender, ended up playing over
100 games against sub .500 teams and might end up under .500 themselves.

 

[SilenceS]

Raking.....in the Arizona League. BWAHAHA

Last I heard Tommy John, a fractured ankle and a dislocated finger (throwing hand) were all injuries...pretty big ones, too.

Wow, what a great way to decide who catches....the guy who can do a better job of making umpires look stupid.

But thanks for enlightening everyone that all you do is search the net.....like everyone else does. You got a way of stating
points like a Mr. Know-it-all....which you clearly are not. Guess work.

He came back to AA in July. You dont know what you are talking about

 

[SilenceS]

And lose Contreras?

Cool…maybe you can beat up on teams that are building for next year when they play sub .500 teams late in year again.

Where is this Contreras is this huge difference maker?

I love Contreras leadership and spirit. He is still sub par behind the plate and his bat is inconsistent but still one of the better catching bats.

This is who he is and always will be.

The Cubs new identity is coming soon. They are going to choose someone to lead that charge ala Jon Lester. Willy isnt going to be it.

 

[SilenceS]

Steele became a different pitcher after a talk with Jon Lester.....not a bad guy to talk shop with. I doubt Miley will be back. Don't forget
Kilian.....this kid had a history of great control until he got here. Unless he pulled a Steve Blass, he should be considered. Assad is another Swarmer....a novelty that should not be a Cub in 2023.

The different tilts he gets on one pitch is truly amazing.

The Cubs are looking mighty good in mid to back rotation options. Lets hope one turns into Ace material. You still have Dj Herz and some higher ends.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Where is this Contreras is this huge difference maker?

I love Contreras leadership and spirit. He is still sub par behind the plate and his bat is inconsistent but still one of the better catching bats.

This is who he is and always will be.

The Cubs new identity is coming soon. They are going to choose someone to lead that charge ala Jon Lester. Willy isnt going to be it.

You’ll appreciate that bat when it’s gone I guess.