Cubs should stand pat

[czman]

I know a lot of people are talking about the Cubs could/should make. The best move they can make is to make none. When you really look at the Cubs deficiencies, you see how unlikely it is they can make a positive addition that would be worth the opportunity cost. The Cubs have enough talent to be good, but they are far from talented enough to be a WS team. Going from 65 wins to the 81 wins is the easy part. At 65 wins the team has multiple gaps that need to be filled. The better the team the more precise you have to be in your player selection.

Right now the Cubs have very specific needs. They need:
Top end starting pitcher
OPB
OF defense

Everyone knows that there are really only 3 ways to get players; trade, free agency, draft. Drafted players will take a few years so it is obviously best to draft for talent and not need.

Free agents and trades are the way the Cubs will need acquire players. The problem is they have a very specific needs. next season there are players who can fill those needs in FA. There are multiple pitching options out there now. Trading for a pitcher this season is a bad idea. The opportunity cost for a top pitcher next season is only cash. If they trade for one now it is cash (current salary) plus assets. Unless they are bringing in a top pitcher in the league who has multiple years left and is young, there is no reason to make the move. They can get the same talent later for less cost.

The OF players with defense and higher on base and average can be available too. Someone like Hayward is a perfect fit. He can push Solar to left, solar has been below average defensively, and add the top of the lineup hitter the cubs need.

Then they can go after a CF to bat lead off.

Right now the Cubs have talent, but they don't have a team. Throwing Baez on the team and pushing someone to LF does not make them a better team. They will still strike out a bunch, play bad defense in the OF, and carry a low BA. At some point you have to build a lineup, a team.

I don't want to see the Cubs waste resources that don't move them towards close holes. Getting a player that is better does not make the team better, if they still can't catch the ball or get on base.

Since there are players in FA that fill the Cubs needs, they should hold. Be patient and don't jump after a short term fix for a team that needs 3 or 4 players. One player is not going to cover all of the gaps. I really hope they stay patient and don't overpay just to end the season 2 games back of the playoffs instead of 6 games out of the playoffs.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

If you're worried about a go for broke trade I'd rest easy. I do think that they could make a big move if the right young pitcher is available, say Sonny Gray. That's not likely but if there's a deal there I think they'd make it. I don't think they have any intention of spending $200 million on a Price or Zimmermann in FA so they're always looking. We've talked endlessly about trade possibilities with the Mets and think there still might be a deal there but considering they will both contend for the Wild Card that's iffy as well. The bottom line is any move made is to make the team better going forward. If Baez has turned it around that makes them better so I disagree there. Also as guys get healthy and the season moves forward this should be a better team. I'd be surprised if they don't finish in the 85-88 win category. Still this FO knows this isn't a WS winning team and will act accordingly.

 

[beckdawg]

I sort of agree. What I mean by that is I feel if you're going to make a trade it should be game changing or a relatively minor deal. And when I say game changing I mean trading for a pitcher who's sub-28 or something to that effect. For example, I think a good contrast is trying to trade for Hamels vs trying to trade for Sonny Gray or someone like that. Gray might not even be out there and if that's the case I tend to agree you stand pat.

Another area I wouldn't hate them considering deals for is a better bench/bullpen. The name people will probably bring up is Zobrist but honestly I'm not sure I like that unless Oakland is willing to let him go REALLY cheap. He's making $7.5 mil this year and is a FA next year. Plus, he's not exactly hitting well anyways. Unless you're playing him in LF he's not going to see all that much action and I feel like you're sort of wasting him defensively there. With that said, there's obviously a pretty weak bench right now. Herrera is really not that great of an option. Additionally, the bullpen has some potential obvious weaknesses.

I'd really like to see them shed Jackson in particular some how. With wood in the pen you don't really need him plus Turner could be back in the near term. They are apparently sniffing around Soriano which would be another way to add without trading away players.

 

[Crystallas]

When a team is this young, it might be possible that standing pat is a good idea. But I don't think the Cubs or any team in the same position should close themselves off to any trade that can solve atmosphere improvements(players who simply take the check and don't care to be here) or balancing the position(too many x-players, not enough y-players). Being opportunistic and listening to offers and the trade block is a must in any position. Therefore, fans are going to speculate trade options for as long as trading and free agency are a part of the sport.

 

[CSF77]

I want to see how it plays out for sure. They are missing a pitcher. By moving Bryant to LF and Baez to 3B will make the line up strong.

Fowler CF
Bryant LF
Rizzo 1B
Baez 3B
Soler RF
Montero C
Castro SS
Pitcher
Russell 2B

Denorfia has started his rehab so expect him back pretty soon. Then Baez should promote after. At that point all we are doing is waiting for Soler to come off the DL. But Lake for some reason has figured something out this year and has added the ability to take a walk. Never thought that would get through his thick skull. That has turned him into a interesting piece now.

Still the biggest weakness going forward is Wada. Yes we can point to the bullpen also but my opinion is failed starting pitching projects just become BP arms and they should never invest there.

 

[TL1961]

I can't stand Pat, that asshole.

 

[TL1961]

Lake looks better at the plate, but he better figure out how to field s single to RF

 

[czman]

Still the biggest weakness going forward is Wada. Yes we can point to the bullpen also but my opinion is failed starting pitching projects just become BP arms and they should never invest there.

I don't agree with that at all. I think the biggest weakness of the Cubs is defense. The infield kicks/throws the ball over the diamond and the outfield has the range of an ottoman.

I would put the next biggest need as decreasing the SO and increasing the hits and on base.

I have read things like you can put anyone in LF if you have a CF who has good range. The problem is the Cubs don't. Plus there are plenty of string pitching candidates next season so there is no reason to trade for one.

I still think this Cubs teams needs another 2 years to incubate and put together the correct pieces. Trying to speed that up and getting the wrong piece can cause real damage. Not just the cost in salary, but the cost in prospects. Right now the Cubs need to find the exact right pieces. It is not like it was 3 years ago when anyone was an upgrade.

 

[czman]

I sort of agree. What I mean by that is I feel if you're going to make a trade it should be game changing or a relatively minor deal. And when I say game changing I mean trading for a pitcher who's sub-28 or something to that effect. For example, I think a good contrast is trying to trade for Hamels vs trying to trade for Sonny Gray or someone like that. Gray might not even be out there and if that's the case I tend to agree you stand pat.

I don't think the A's are looking to deal Gray. I do agree that if the Cubs can trade for Bryce Harper, Sonny Gray type player they should. It is a pipe dream to think they are on the market now though. I think when you look at realistic candidates, there is not really one that makes sense. I will fully admit though that someone may be on the market that I am not aware of.

If the Cubs can get a top player at their position they should. The names you hear are Zobrist/Hamels. No thanks. I like letting it ride this year. Improve the OF defense and gain top of the order hitters so that Bryant and Rizzo can bat 3/4. The Cubs need more balance. I am one of those people that believe there can be synergy between players on a baseball field and a lineup order and skill set does make a difference.

Right now the Cubs are worse then the sum of their parts because they have far to much redundancy an are lacking severely in a few areas. The right mix of players can create a team that is greater than the sum of their parts. I think the Giants are a perfect example of that. I am not saying mimic the Giants. I am saying understand what they do and build on that model.

 

[CSF77]

I don't think the A's are looking to deal Gray. I do agree that if the Cubs can trade for Bryce Harper, Sonny Gray type player they should. It is a pipe dream to think they are on the market now though. I think when you look at realistic candidates, there is not really one that makes sense. I will fully admit though that someone may be on the market that I am not aware of.

If the Cubs can get a top player at their position they should. The names you hear are Zobrist/Hamels. No thanks. I like letting it ride this year. Improve the OF defense and gain top of the order hitters so that Bryant and Rizzo can bat 3/4. The Cubs need more balance. I am one of those people that believe there can be synergy between players on a baseball field and a lineup order and skill set does make a difference.

Right now the Cubs are worse then the sum of their parts because they have far to much redundancy an are lacking severely in a few areas. The right mix of players can create a team that is greater than the sum of their parts. I think the Giants are a perfect example of that. I am not saying mimic the Giants. I am saying understand what they do and build on that model.

Cubs have 3 rookies in the startingf line up. It is expected that they will struggle at first. The fact all 3 have been giving solid production at this point of their career bodes well going into 2016.

CF is a big issue and I would bump up Almora's time line personally.

BP: Looks like they are tossing their hat into to the Sorianio bid. I would expect to see him closing and Jackson bumped out at that point.

Errors are going to happen with a young team. I accept it less from Castro. But as long as they are improving as a whole it is progress.

 

[Mr. Cub]

We need pitching, and tons of it. Aside from Hammel, our pitching is atrocious.

 

[Boobaby1]

And like I have said before, how does Scott Kasmir not help this team?

If he takes Wada's place, and Wada goes to the pen, this has to help going deeper into games and not taxing the bullpen.

That is a marginal move, and won't cost a lot as Oakland is going to lose him anyways.

Plus, if a pitcher like this works out, who's to say that they can't sign him to a 2 year deal in the off-season?

He had a 3.55 ERA last year, and is currently sporting a 2.93 ERA this year in the AL.

Having a rotation of Lester, Arrieta, Hammel, Kazmir, and Hendricks wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

As far as left field goes, either stick Bryant out there and bring up Baez, or leave Bryant at 3B and bring up Schwarber.

A good starting rotation and a some bullpen help could go a long way, and a good team has to have both of those pieces, and personally, Schwarber and Bryant represent the best OBP as far as youth to go along with Rizzo IMO.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

The Cubs need to not make any major trades this year.
1) The biggest issue is not knowing what you have. Soler can't stay on the field. Which could precipitate using Lake in RF or moving Bryant there to bring up Schwarber in LF. Baez still unknown and a huge hole in CF as well. Castro struggling and our bullpen needs our AA pitching to get here. Besides Rizzo and Bryant there really isn't a sure thing on this team (hitting wise).
2) You dont use money and an asset to improve on a top 5 starting staff. You use money to find the final piece or two to push out Wada.
3) Bullpen guys can be found within your own system, once the guys drafted in rounds 2-10 start to funnel up
4) We have no defense right now. Russell is a stud as is Rizzo, but we need Almora to get here so we can watch him run into the ivy and hurt himself.

 

[DaBullsDaCubsDaHawksDitka]

I bet the Cubs could get Kazmir in a similar deal in which they got Rich Harden in the 2008 season. Maybe get Kazmir and Chris Bassitt for Christian Villanueva, Travis Wood, Pierce Johnson and maybe Mark Zagunis, or some various combination thereof. There is a chance he is just a rental but I don’t see that as giving up much for him plus another decent controlled bullpen arm in Bassitt. Oakland might want more, which is their prerogative but that won’t get earth shattering deals for Kazmir.

 

[CSF77]

I bet the Cubs could get Kazmir in a similar deal in which they got Rich Harden in the 2008 season. Maybe get Kazmir and Chris Bassitt for Christian Villanueva, Travis Wood, Pierce Johnson and maybe Mark Zagunis, or some various combination thereof. There is a chance he is just a rental but I don’t see that as giving up much for him plus another decent controlled bullpen arm in Bassitt. Oakland might want more, which is their prerogative but that won’t get earth shattering deals for Kazmir.

I would think Wood and Mark Zagunis would be a strong offer for Kazmir. Mark is not going to surpass Schwarber at catcher. Pretty sure on that one. At least in the Cubs eyes so they might as well get something in return for him.

That said they have to be in contention before even thinking of dealing out. 2008 they were in 1st and needed to counter Mil's move to stay there. Right now they are fighting the Pirates for a wild card spot hovering around .500. I would rather them promote Baez and see how it shakes out. If that puts them up to the next level then adding a SP would be viewed as setting up a play off rotation vs just trying to get there add. That made the Harden deal acceptable. Even if they traded out a future all star in the deal.

I wouldn't give up anything of value unless they got a Sonny Gray type of return. They are better off going after a F/A and giving up their 1st round draft pool IMO or targeting a SP that gets dealt at the deadline then signing them with no loss. As they did with Lester. That is a more likely scenerio they will do.

So I am not seeing them making a major trade unless they are play off bound.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Disagree with the premise right now. Because ANYTHING can happen. A team can put a player thought untouchable on the market.

First, the cubs put themselves in this position. In many ways, its good, better than most. But in key ways, its a disadvantageous position. TOR is the key. Theo has ignored it in the draft during this rebuild, and its apparent that its biting them in the ass.

As TC said, I don't expect a "go for broke" trade. They wont sell the farm for a Price.

But the right deal may come along for decent young TOR pitching spec and a guy like Almora was the price, do it.

I would look to keep Fowler depending his asking price. Dude is decent, and amid a below average BA right now--which is an outlier based on his career to date; he's due to get much better. I'd keep him for lead off. But certainly not for Michael Bourne money.

Really wish Maddon wouldn't **** around with the line up the way he constantly does. One of my biggest pet peeves. If something's not working, changing it up is obvious. But when it is working? He still changes it. He did it in Tampa too, and its bitten him in the ass. For example--trying to turn Evan Longoria into a 20 SB per year guy--and he tears his hammy in a SB attempt.

Monday-Wednesday is the draft. #9 should be a no-brainer. Best pitching talent available. Take a fucking chance, and **** the asking price/risk potential and pay the fucking kid. I've seen Funkhouser, Harris, and Fullmer in assorted mock drafts around at 9. I, once again think Tom Echelman is the next big ace--get him. I don't believe Fullmer will be there--but its gotta be one of them. Pay them and start them in the pipeline.

I'd love to see a guy streamlined the way the White Sox did with Chris Sale or Tampa with Price--who took slightly longer. Sign right away (Sale, Price didn't sign until August 07), have him in the minors in June and July, let him progress, bring him up to the bullpen by August if everything's clicking. Make him a pen guy his first full year than transition to starter. I understand guys like Chris Sale or David Price don't come along, nor does the ideal fast-tracking both went through.......but its about time babying prospects is over (unless he's high school talent, then you kind of have to) and get the kids coming.

But to the point of the thread--never say never. The right deal may come along. Cant turn your nose up at anything and everything. And yes, to all the meatballs out there, to trade for good talent, you have to give up good talent.

And CZ, there is a draft pick to lose if the cubs sign a guy next year. Pretty sure Zimm and Price (if not extended/retained) will get a QO.

 

[chibears55]

I see them making trades for a SP and maybe add a vet for the bench..

I think some of you overlook that the team on the field is basically their future going forward... all but LF and CF are set with players that could/should be with team for the next 3+ years.. Montero signed thru 2017..

Point is , most of the positional kids in AA / AAA are blocked ..
Also they will be restocking with this year Amateur draft and even more so with the international draft, in which they will be able to spend again.

So, if they have an opportunity to deal for a TOR type starter like Hamels and or Add a player that could help off the bench or LF, they can do it by trading players that are presumably blocked.

 

[CSF77]

Monday-Wednesday is the draft. #9 should be a no-brainer. Best pitching talent available. Take a fucking chance, and **** the asking price/risk potential and pay the fucking kid. I've seen Funkhouser, Harris, and Fullmer in assorted mock drafts around at 9. I, once again think Tom Echelman is the next big ace--get him. I don't believe Fullmer will be there--but its gotta be one of them. Pay them and start them in the pipeline.

I'd love to see a guy streamlined the way the White Sox did with Chris Sale or Tampa with Price--who took slightly longer. Sign right away (Sale, Price didn't sign until August 07), have him in the minors in June and July, let him progress, bring him up to the bullpen by August if everything's clicking. Make him a pen guy his first full year than transition to starter. I understand guys like Chris Sale or David Price don't come along, nor does the ideal fast-tracking both went through.......but its about time babying prospects is over (unless he's high school talent, then you kind of have to) and get the kids coming.

I would take a chance on Brady Aiken. He should fall to later first round and I would not let him pass by. Injury aside he has the highest top end. Looking forward they are going to need a 2nd LHSP behind Lester and you really want a high project-ability type developing for it.

Now on the 5th arm. They would be better off sitting it out and planning on spending big on Cueto. Lester is a 2. Not a 1. Cueto is a 1. This sets the TOR up with the Cards and the Dodgers in quality. Then as Hammel and Arrieta come up for F/A you have guys like Aiken, Edwards, close to ready with depth options of Black and Underwood close.

 

[CSF77]

I see them making trades for a SP and maybe add a vet for the bench..

I think some of you overlook that the team on the field is basically their future going forward... all but LF and CF are set with players that could/should be with team for the next 3+ years.. Montero signed thru 2017..

Point is , most of the positional kids in AA / AAA are blocked ..
Also they will be restocking with this year Amateur draft and even more so with the international draft, in which they will be able to spend again.

So, if they have an opportunity to deal for a TOR type starter like Hamels and or Add a player that could help off the bench or LF, they can do it by trading players that are presumably blocked.

If the Phills would take Almora, Vogelbach and Torres then I'm behind it 100%. But, my problem is in a play off series you really don't want to go back to back lefties. Thus this puts (right now) Cole then Hammel, then Lester and Arrieta as your 4 man rotation. I'm not sure if Hammel stacks up vs other #2's. Now Arrieta might have a stellar 2nd half and nix this issue but right now he is not the best pitcher on the staff. And Lester is the 3rd best as of now.

So I'm still leaning towards F/A and going after Cueto. He sets up the rotation and gives proven production. If this season justifies it I would rather them do a minor trade in cost to get Kaz. All you want to do is get Hendricks out of the play off rotation at that point and to split up Arreta and Hammel with 2 lefties.

 

[chibears55]

If the Phills would take Almora, Vogelbach and Torres then I'm behind it 100%. But, my problem is in a play off series you really don't want to go back to back lefties. Thus this puts (right now) Cole then Hammel, then Lester and Arrieta as your 4 man rotation. I'm not sure if Hammel stacks up vs other #2's. Now Arrieta might have a stellar 2nd half and nix this issue but right now he is not the best pitcher on the staff. And Lester is the 3rd best as of now.

So I'm still leaning towards F/A and going after Cueto. He sets up the rotation and gives proven production. If this season justifies it I would rather them do a minor trade in cost to get Kaz. All you want to do is get Hendricks out of the play off rotation at that point and to split up Arreta and Hammel with 2 lefties.

First Hammel pitching great but i wouldn't annoint him a TOR type starter.. lets just appreciate he having an awesome year..
If they were to make playoffs, Arrieta would need to be pitching well.

Second. . I dont think it really matters cone playoff time wheather a team sees a lefty or righty back to back , but that being said... i can see Maddon splitting the 2 lefties with Arrieta going 2nd and probably starting series with whichever is deserving and more so matches up or had better success versus team their playing. ..

Last.. for me, you got 3 quality TOR type starters going for you in a playoff series, it doesn't matter what order you put them cause you have a great chance to win with all 3 ..
Also, good feeling knowing that if he started Hamels first and Arrieta 2nd, they have Lester going against their no.3 starter.

Then you have a vet like Hammel if he continues to pitch well pitching 4th against the other team 4, id like our chances..