D Howard Would Join Bulls If God Wants It To Happen

[RamiTheBullsFan]

perhaps(though its debatable)

the thing about korver and redick is you'd see them get minutes to space the floor..but we're not talking long stretches especially when you have deng and butler that can rotate in...this changes a bit if deng is injured..which may be the argument for hamilton

redick is the better shooter and for his height actually isnt a bad defender..i dont think you're losing that much in that regard

plus he's quite a bit younger...and if you compare his per36 stats he is very comparable to hamilton(better rebounder for one thing...and ya i know context but jj should honestly get some more minutes **** orlando's personnel)

I really don't disagree with anything you're saying. I just don't like the Bulls' odds against the Heat (even with Rose and Howard) if they don't have Deng or Hamilton. Redick+Turkoglu+whoever just doesn't match-up well with Wade+James+Battier on either end of the floor.

Bulls need at least one of those guys and hope they're healthy come playoff time. Age/experience wins championship. Rip may be declining but I'll take him over Redick this year.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I really don't disagree with anything you're saying. I just don't like the Bulls' odds against the Heat (even with Rose and Howard) if they don't have Deng or Hamilton. Redick+Turkoglu+whoever just doesn't match-up well with Wade+James+Battier on either end of the floor.

you could still rotate brewer in for defense as well as butler...

again i dont think the difference in defense is really that much between redick and hamilton

i think the bigger concern would be replacing turkoglu for deng

one thing you get with howard is the ability to cut off drives inside...and thats big against lebron and wade...you make them work a little more on the outside

bulls struggled last season with 3 pointers in the ECF..and struggled against miami in that regard yesterday..korver was 3-6 but everyone else was cold or simply did not take outside shots(whether it be due to preference or simply the fact that its not a good idea)...when you have one legit or really no consistent threat from outside..it takes a relative dimension away and makes the defense have less to work with

Bulls need at least one of those guys and hope they're healthy come playoff time. Age/experience wins championship. Rip may be declining but I'll take him over Redick this year.

would rip instead of redick make that difference though?

are we looking at one player or as a team?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

you could still rotate brewer in for defense as well as butler...

Butler is too much of an unknown to depend on him at all. Anything he can bring is purely a bonus. Brewer would be guarding the 3-spot the vast majority of the time if we had Redick and Korver on the team and I don't like his odds match-up with LeBron James.

again i dont think the difference in defense is really that much between redick and hamilton

I do because Hamilton is about 3 inches taller and longer. And he has more experience guarding Wade (has done it in a couple of playoff series and did it well).

i think the bigger concern would be replacing turkoglu for deng

No doubt.

one thing you get with howard is the ability to cut off drives inside...and thats big against lebron and wade...you make them work a little more on the outside

Very true. Hopefully, they don't get him into foul trouble.

bulls struggled last season with 3 pointers in the ECF..and struggled against miami in that regard yesterday..korver was 3-6 but everyone else was cold or simply did not take outside shots(whether it be due to preference or simply the fact that its not a good idea)...when you have one legit or really no consistent threat from outside..it takes a relative dimension away and makes the defense have less to work with

Every team struggles against the Heat shooting three's because Wade, James, and Bosh are great at closing out. Rip is a solid three-point shooter. Quite frankly, I'd rather Korver never stepped on the court against the Heat again in the playoffs because he is a liability on defense and the Heat are so good at recovering out towards him and getting in the passing lanes.

A line-up of Rose-Redick-Brewer-Boozer-Howard would basically be the Heat forcing Rose to pass to one of his wings at the end of games. And, if that main recipient is Redick, it is going to end up being mostly a Rose turnover trying to get him the ball or a contested three-point attempt.

would rip instead of redick make that difference though?

are we looking at one player or as a team?

Both, really. Teams with age/experience generally are the only ones to compete for/win titles.

I still think Hamilton is a better player on both ends than Redick. He's more athletic and a somewhat better passer and scoring off of the dribble because of that. He doesn't have the shooting range but he has better intangibles like playing off the ball and pump-faking and drawing contact/getting better percentage shots.

Long-misses for the Bulls = Heat run-outs. That is when the Heat are unstoppable.

And Rip has the experience guarding Wade.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Butler is too much of an unknown to depend on him at all. Anything he can bring is purely a bonus. Brewer would be guarding the 3-spot the vast majority of the time if we had Redick and Korver on the team and I don't like his odds match-up with LeBron James.

depends on the rotation..if redick or korver is in the game you'll probably brewer on lebron...but with turkoglu or butler this differs

I do because Hamilton is about 3 inches taller and longer. And he has more experience guarding Wade (has done it in a couple of playoff series and did it well).

length=/= better defender...it may suggest more ability(i wouldnt say rip has the lateral speed at this point due to his age to take advantage though)

Every team struggles against the Heat shooting three's because Wade, James, and Bosh are great at closing out.

while james and bosh are great perimeter defenders..this isnt really true

miami is right now 5th worst in the league in opponent 3point %..and opponents are attempting more 3s against miami than they are for any other team

last year they were 8th or 9th best...so it reasonable to say that it will level out..

that said despite miami having good perimeter D...i dont think that it is justifiable to excuse poor 3 point shooting for the bulls against the heat by saying most teams struggle in that regard...especially when at times miami packs or looks to cut off the inside rather than lock the outside

Rip is a solid three-point shooter. Quite frankly, I'd rather Korver never stepped on the court against the Heat again in the playoffs because he is a liability on defense and the Heat are so good at recovering out towards him and getting in the passing lanes.

he's really not that great...right now he's at around 31%...he's not bad but he's not a legit threat imo

i think korver could assume a more of a spotty role..come in as a boost offensively from the outside that makes miami's defense react...as i mentioned korver may not do much else..but he can hit the outside shot

A line-up of Rose-Redick-Brewer-Boozer-Howard would basically be the Heat forcing Rose to pass to one of his wings at the end of games. And, if that main recipient is Redick, it is going to end up being mostly a Rose turnover trying to get him the ball or a contested three-point attempt.

alot of variables that play into this...i would think the bulls may run a rose iso and he can create and if miami looks to pack,cut off,double,etc. then he looks to pass to the outside...

but there's alot of ways that end game situation could play out..it depends really

Both, really. Teams with age/experience generally are the only ones to compete for/win titles.

mostly correct

but again you're looking at one guy...perhaps it makes a difference..probably doesnt in the long haul..it more about the network of the team's experience overall..i think veteran leaders are important...i dont really know if hamilton fits into that role though

I still think Hamilton is a better player on both ends than Redick. He's more athletic and a somewhat better passer and scoring off of the dribble because of that. He doesn't have the shooting range but he has better intangibles like playing off the ball and pump-faking and drawing contact/getting better percentage shots.

i dont think the importance of the trade is necessarily dependent on who's the better player individually right now...i think redick is pretty close..but its his purpose and the fact that redick is significantly younger

rip is aged...i wouldnt say he's quick or very athletic at this point...better off the dribble scorer? probably...

redick has pretty good IQ and intangibles

Long-misses for the Bulls = Heat run-outs. That is when the Heat are unstoppable.

And Rip has the experience guarding Wade.

redick plays in orlando, same division as miami..he's had plenty of experience guarding wade

and i think you made a good point about transition..there are always drawbacks to taking more 3s..but i think when you look at how it changes the offense...i think it outweighs that... also in consolation if the defense spreads out...that also allows the big guys(howard,boozer,etc.) to clean up easier

 

[thechosenone]

Bulls is still a better team than the Heat without Howard.If there is one person who didn't understand this yesterday there is nothing we can say.

Yes LBJ is better than every single player of the Bulls
Yes Wade is better than every single player of the Bulls
So?They are a better team?

You believe that if that teams were playing in Chicago and the Heat was with Wade not playing,with Bosh injured and with lebron's backup not playing too it would be a so close game?

The Bulls played against Miami with half the team injured.And we could ve won the game.Maybe you underestimate the cold blooded Luol Deng and how good defender he is too.Maybe you underestimate what Rip can offer to this team more than 4/20 if he is healthy.Maybe you believe that Boozer is not as good as Bosh because you like to compare Boozer's bad games with Bosh's good games.Maybe you believe that the heat has a guy that can guard DRose after his lesson in the ECF.Maybe you believe that DRose had the experience to win the series last year.Maybe you don't see how focused is this kid this year and how better he is from the last year.Maybe you don't see that every single player in the Bulls team has improved from last year.Maybe you believe that Miami's bench players are better than ours.Maybe you believe that coaches are useless in basketball or that Miami has a better coach.Your problem.

But please don't talk like we are a crap team that accidentally had the best record last year and they only lost in the ECF in their first Final of their lifes and has the best record this year too with the most difficult schedule and the most injured team.

Yes Howard with Rose will be something huge.Having those guys and building around them is huge.If we play against Miami in the ECF this year with starting lineup Rose,Rip,Deng,Boozer,Howard we will sweep them for fun.But even without Howard the Bulls will win the series even if you don't believe it or you don't want it.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

depends on the rotation..if redick or korver is in the game you'll probably brewer on lebron...but with turkoglu or butler this differs

Not a big fan of Brewer guarding LeBron or Turkoglu guarding LeBron... Butler is a big 'if'... especially on offense.

length=/= better defender...it may suggest more ability(i wouldnt say rip has the lateral speed at this point due to his age to take advantage though)

Length certainly helps on defense. Just because guy A is longer than guy B at the same position doesn't make guy A a better defender necessarily. But it sure helps. Rip still has some good quickness for his age. The difference between him and Redick in the reaction depeartment is negligible. And Hamilton knows exactly how to defend Wade in big-game situations and know when and when not to bite on Wade's move. Look at the job Rip did on Wade before he re-aggravated his groin injury. He was putting the clamps down on him.

while james and bosh are great perimeter defenders..this isnt really true

miami is right now 5th worst in the league in opponent 3point %..and opponents are attempting more 3s against miami than they are for any other team

last year they were 8th or 9th best...so it reasonable to say that it will level out..

Wade is a great perimeter and help defender has been out a good part of the year and Norris Cole and James Jones have made up his minutes. That has a lot to do with it.

that said despite miami having good perimeter D...i dont think that it is justifiable to excuse poor 3 point shooting for the bulls against the heat by saying most teams struggle in that regard...especially when at times miami packs or looks to cut off the inside rather than lock the outside

I'm not too worried about the Bulls' efficiency shooting three's. They should only shoot three's when Miami decided to leave Deng/Rose/Hamilton completely open. A large part of the reason Dallas was able to hurt Miami with the three is because they had four guys on the court who can shoot three's and create off of the dribble at the same time. The Bulls, last year, had one play-maker off the dribble and marginal standing-three-point shooters. That isn't the Bulls' style nor, in my opinion, should it be to shoot a lot of three's- especially against Miami who has great wing rebounding (Wade/James/Battier).

he's really not that great...right now he's at around 31%...he's not bad but he's not a legit threat imo

Yeah. But I'm still fine with that because at least he requires a body on him at all times. I'm not sure Redick does because I don't like him once you make him put the ball on the floor.

i think korver could assume a more of a spotty role..come in as a boost offensively from the outside that makes miami's defense react...as i mentioned korver may not do much else..but he can hit the outside shot

I really believe he is useless against Miami. Even Mike Miller completely destroyed him (passing/rebounding/driving on him). If he is out there, it better be because they are down by three with a few seconds left or because somebody is in foul trouble.

alot of variables that play into this...i would think the bulls may run a rose iso and he can create and if miami looks to pack,cut off,double,etc. then he looks to pass to the outside...

but there's alot of ways that end game situation could play out..it depends really
_____
mostly correct

but again you're looking at one guy...perhaps it makes a difference..probably doesnt in the long haul..it more about the network of the team's experience overall..i think veteran leaders are important...i dont really know if hamilton fits into that role though
___
i dont think the importance of the trade is necessarily dependent on who's the better player individually right now...i think redick is pretty close..but its his purpose and the fact that redick is significantly younger

rip is aged...i wouldnt say he's quick or very athletic at this point...better off the dribble scorer? probably...

redick has pretty good IQ and intangibles
____

redick plays in orlando, same division as miami..he's had plenty of experience guarding wade
_____
and i think you made a good point about transition..there are always drawbacks to taking more 3s..but i think when you look at how it changes the offense...i think it outweighs that... also in consolation if the defense spreads out...that also allows the big guys(howard,boozer,etc.) to clean up easier

There's no denying a lot of variables play into this. Everybody has their own basketball point of view, but I don't think the Bulls can afford to lose both Deng and Hamilton right now and gain only a big man and a weak defending SF.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Bulls is still a better team than the Heat without Howard.If there is one person who didn't understand this yesterday there is nothing we can say.

That statement kills your credibility.

Wade played a grand total of 31 minutes yesterday and I believe Bosh did, too. The Heat were not in playoff mode to say the least. Neither were the Bulls because they were unhealthy (though they did play extremely hard with Rose going for 45 minutes and attacking the rim nearly every time).

Can the Bulls beat the Heat?

If they aren't 100% healthy, no.

If they are healthy, yes.

But they probably won't.

The Heat are CLEARLY a MUCH better offensive team than the Bulls. And the difference on defense and rebounding is negligible at best.

If you don't want Dwight Howard, something is wrong with you.

 

[thechosenone]

That statement kills your credibility.

Wade played a grand total of 31 minutes yesterday and I believe Bosh did, too. The Heat were not in playoff mode to say the least. Neither were the Bulls because they were unhealthy (though they did play extremely hard with Rose going for 45 minutes and attacking the rim nearly every time).

Because they can't play more.If Wade play against the Bulls for 40 minutes by the 4th quarter he will just walk.

Can the Bulls beat the Heat?

If they aren't 100% healthy, no.

I saw them able to beat them on the road yesterday

If they are healthy, yes.

But they probably won't.

OK.Just wait until playoff time.But I wαrn you will be surprised by the result of the series.

The Heat are CLEARLY a MUCH better offensive team than the Bulls. And the difference on defense and rebounding is negligible at best.

That's what happen when you overrate one team and underrate the other team.Yes the Heat is a better offensive team than the Bulls.I agree.But they allow 100 points TO EVERY SINGLE TEAM.The Bulls allow 85 points per game.If you believe that one of the worst defensive teams in the league is negligible with the best team..I don't have something to say..

If you don't want Dwight Howard, something is wrong with you.

Of course I want him.But I know that this move may cost us this year's championship.But the Bulls will be the clear favorite from next year and for the next 8 years.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Bulls is still a better team than the Heat without Howard.If there is one person who didn't understand this yesterday there is nothing we can say.

Yes LBJ is better than every single player of the Bulls
Yes Wade is better than every single player of the Bulls
So?They are a better team?

You believe that if that teams were playing in Chicago and the Heat was with Wade not playing,with Bosh injured and with lebron's backup not playing too it would be a so close game?

The Bulls played against Miami with half the team injured.And we could ve won the game.Maybe you underestimate the cold blooded Luol Deng and how good defender he is too.Maybe you underestimate what Rip can offer to this team more than 4/20 if he is healthy.Maybe you believe that Boozer is not as good as Bosh because you like to compare Boozer's bad games with Bosh's good games.Maybe you believe that the heat has a guy that can guard DRose after his lesson in the ECF.Maybe you believe that DRose had the experience to win the series last year.Maybe you don't see how focused is this kid this year and how better he is from the last year.Maybe you don't see that every single player in the Bulls team has improved from last year.Maybe you believe that Miami's bench players are better than ours.Maybe you believe that coaches are useless in basketball or that Miami has a better coach.Your problem.

But please don't talk like we are a crap team that accidentally had the best record last year and they only lost in the ECF in their first Final of their lifes and has the best record this year too with the most difficult schedule and the most injured team.

Yes Howard with Rose will be something huge.Having those guys and building around them is huge.If we play against Miami in the ECF this year with starting lineup Rose,Rip,Deng,Boozer,Howard we will sweep them for fun.But even without Howard the Bulls will win the series even if you don't believe it or you don't want it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0]Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Glide2keva]

No, the Bulls absolutely need Howard to beat the Heat.

Dwight would've made those FT's, oh wait. He's the savior though. Never mind the Bulls almost won that game. And these two teams as currently constructed are only separated by 1 game head to head. The record is 5-4 and that's including the playoffs with all games but one coming down the last possession each time. But no, the Heat CLEARLY SOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN THE BULLS

 

[JosMin]

Howard and Turkoglu's death trap of a contract for Noah, Boozer, Watson, Gibson and two-first rounders. Orlando can stay competitive with Noah and Boozer get future assets in Gibson and the draft picks, and a capable backup to Nelson at the point. Bulls are able to keep Deng while adding Howard. Turkoglu's wretched contract is ours, but at least he can add some scoring to the second unit. Salaries match, teams get what they want. Done and done.

Do it, get it over with. You're welcome.

 

[FirstTimer]

...redick is not a shaky SG.

Obvious Duke homer is obvious.

LOL at this.

Redick is a bench SG. He's average at best. He can't handle, is undersized and isn't shit on defense.

Sounds pretty much like Korver, except Korver is bigger and is a better shooter..Redick is better on defense..but that's basically being the smartest Special person in this matchup.

 

[Anytime23]

Isn't Turks contract only for one or two more years?

 

[ChiTeez.com]

Isn't Turks contract only for one or two more years?

I think at least 2!

 

[JosMin]

Three more years at about 12 million a season.

 

[ChiTeez.com]

Three more years at about 12 million a season.

oh lord....................... lol :nope:

 

[Dementia]

Turks contract can still be amnestied by the Bulls (if they obtain him) anyway. I believe the rule is 1 contract per team signed before the current CBA isn't it? Of course Orlando already amnestied Arenas.

 

[Axl Rose]

Dwight Howard told the Tribune’s Vaughn McClure he “loves” Derrick Rose and “that’s my brother.”

Rose, who has been knocked out of two games by Howard, reacted similarly to when he talks about any opposing player.

“Me and Dwight definitely have a relationship, especially because of Adidas,” Rose said. “I know that our market and the city speaks for itself if someone was interested to come to the Bulls. Dwight is a great player. Who wouldn’t want to play with him? You never know what’s going to happen.”

(Via K.C. Johnson/Chicago Tribune)

 

[Glide2keva]

Dwight Howard told the Tribune’s Vaughn McClure he “loves” Derrick Rose and “that’s my brother.”

Rose, who has been knocked out of two games by Howard, reacted similarly to when he talks about any opposing player.

“Me and Dwight definitely have a relationship, especially because of Adidas,” Rose said. “I know that our market and the city speaks for itself if someone was interested to come to the Bulls. Dwight is a great player. Who wouldn’t want to play with him? You never know what’s going to happen.”

(Via K.C. Johnson/Chicago Tribune)

And this is news because?

 

[Anytime23]

Obvious Duke homer is obvious.

LOL at this.

Redick is a bench SG. He's average at best. He can't handle, is undersized and isn't shit on defense.

Sounds pretty much like Korver, except Korver is bigger and is a better shooter..Redick is better on defense..but that's basically being the smartest Special person in this matchup.

Turks contract can still be amnestied by the Bulls (if they obtain him) anyway. I believe the rule is 1 contract per team signed before the current CBA isn't it? Of course Orlando already amnestied Arenas.

Well that would be good news If we were to make that trade. For some reason I thought you could only use the AC on someone who was already under contract through the new CBA