Deshaun Watson tore his ACL in practice today, apparently

[Myk]

Funny you should mention this because it seems that there is some truth to it...

Can you injure the other knee during ACL surgery recovery? There was an interesting study presented at the American Academy of Orthopedic Sports Medicine last week that got little press. A physical therapist and colleagues studied the incidence rate of a second ACL injury in the 2 years following ACL reconstruction surgery and return to sports in a young, active population. They looked at both re-tear of the graft and whether the non-operated side had an injury during recovery. In their prospective study, the researchers enrolled 78 young patients (59 women, 19 men, aged 10 years to 25 years) who underwent ACL surgery and returned to a sport and compared them to 47 healthy, control athletes without a history of ACL problems. Each athlete was followed for injury and data was collected on the time spent playing sports. Paterno and colleagues found 23 patients in the ACL reconstruction group and four athletes in the uninjured group had an ACL injury during the year period. The overall rate of a second ACL injury within 24 months after ACL surgery and return to sports was nearly six times greater than the uninjured group. Overall, 29.5% of athletes had a second ACL injury within 24 months of return-to-sport with 20.5% having a new injury to the other side and 9% having a graft re-tear injury. More women (23.7%) had a new non-surgical side tear than men (10.5%). This begs the question of whether bio mechanical issues with the ACL repair side are leading to more stress on the other knee. I have discussed in the past that ACL repair surgery isn’t like the original equipment in that the grafts go in at a much steeper angle. Is this the cause of all of these second injuries? The ACL is also rich in position sensors that help guide the muscles of the lower body in accurate movement. Does ripping it out surgically get rid of all of that normal position sense and impact the other knee? A February study showed that patients with ACL injury had just as much loss of position sense in their good knee as their ACL injured knee, so what happens on one side seems to impact the other. The upshot? Getting one knee ACL “fixed” surgically appears to markedly increase the chance that the other knee will be injured

That is wild.

 

[Bearly]

That is wild.

Sounds to me like it's more of a genetic propensity than anything else. Still counts.
Here's a study that seems to take an alternate view and prefers surgery to not:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3167409/

 

[SugarWalls]

You can't return to sport unless you repair the ACL. Some of those people in the older study may have chosen not to repair it because they can function with walking around, but running is out of the picture. Playing sports would be impossible, especially if there was any running/cutting/jumping.

 

[Bearly]

I don't think lack of blood supply is that big of a deal in a normal circumstance. Are you sure they tourniquet the leg as opposed to local clamps and other chemical methods to reduce bleeding. I know epinephrine is often used in certain situations but I'm in the dark about the mechanics here. Any Docs in the field here?

 

[SugarWalls]

I don't think lack of blood supply is that big of a deal in a normal circumstance. Are you sure they tourniquet the leg as opposed to local clamps and other chemical methods to reduce bleeding. I know epinephrine is often used in certain situations but I'm in the dark about the mechanics here. Any Docs in the field here?

Oh yes. Here is a wonderful video of an ACL surgery if you want to see one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7_bw9uE-AQ When you see what they are doing even just 3 minutes into the video you will understand why they need to be using a tourniquet.

Edit: https://bmcmusculoskeletdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12891-017-1722-y Here is a very recent article showing they are just now moving to ACL arthroscopic repair without the tourniquet. As you imagine though it varies from surgeon to surgeon and most of these guys are good at what they do and set in their ways so if the surgeon has been doing this for a long time my bet would be he is probably still using one.

 

[Bearly]

Of course we're talking about arthroscopic. We are talking best available ACL guys here. Also don't see anything about other damage due to loss of blood supply.

 

[SlickWilly]

Maybe if you are weak minded which nothing suggests he is. Dude is a competitor. I think he will be fine but I guess we will see.



Lol I can only assume this is sarcasm. If not I think you guys are severely underestimating this kids will.

If you believe only weak minded people have psychological problems you're an idiot. It can happen to anyone.

 

[Washington]

You can't return to sport unless you repair the ACL. Some of those people in the older study may have chosen not to repair it because they can function with walking around, but running is out of the picture. Playing sports would be impossible, especially if there was any running/cutting/jumping.

That is spot on. I tore mine 5 years and the surgeon told me lots of people are living with them. He told me if I still played sports with vertical movement, I'd have to get it repaired. he told me there was lots of play in the knee and that at some point, expect it to give out. I tried something as simple as bowling and my knee buckled twice and I went down each time and then quit. I still chose not to repair it and strength trained the rest of the knee area and I live a quality of life albeit without the sports. Seeing I'm 55, my sports days (other than golf) were behind me anyway.

I can see no way in which an elite athlete can compete in sports with a torn ACL.

 

[Bearly]

I don’t think anyone did. The issue is that every tear is different and some don’t ‘need’ surgery. As I understand it, a sprain is a minor tear.

 

[westcoast bear fanatic]

Why? Do you think the coaches would of changed the system for him? If he only had 7 pass attempts in a game how would he done a lot better? Do you think Trubisky is playing poorly, and the WR would be better off if Watson was throwing the ball? That doesn't make any sense to me. If anything he would be doing the same or worse then Mitch, because he is not as good of a passer. Mitch's problems are the sister and the receivers. Watson would also inherit those same problems.

Don't go around life being blind by your fandom. Watson is much more pro ready than Trubisky at this stage in their careers. Trubisky is hopefully long term the better QB. Watson could have done a lot more with this offense than Mitch can at this point.

 

[iueyedoc]

Don't go around life being blind by your fandom. Watson is much more pro ready than Trubisky at this stage in their careers. Trubisky is hopefully long term the better QB. Watson could have done a lot more with this offense than Mitch can at this point.

I disagree. I think Watson has done more than MT would have done with HOU weapons up to this point, but I don't think anyone does much with the shit receiving targets that MT has had up to now. Hopefully that changes after the bye week, at least to a bottom 5-10 level of receiving targets. Without hyperbole, I think there are a few college teams that as a whole have better receiving corps. The Bears is more a receiving corpse.

 

[Myk]

Tape it up and get back out there.
[video=youtube;7rfQUQb55a8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rfQUQb55a8[/video]

 

[swz01]

Another RGIII. At least we get a break from the mouth breathers bitching about Watson vs Trubisky for a year.

 

[remydat]

It was much more serious than you're stating as the All-American was played in January. Also, he put a brace 'on that shit' and finished the game when he tore his ACL in college as well.

You can downplay it all your want. 3 out of his last 5 seasons have ended in a knee injury.

It was his last high school game where he got injured. He already had a scholarship. There was no point in him playing the All Star game as he had nothing to prove. No different than when McCaffery sat out the bowl game against us (UNC).

If the game had any value, he most likely would have played as the article quoted his high school coach who said it wasn't that serious.

If he would of put up the number Mitch has in this offense and then went out for the season, would you still fell that way? I don't think Watson would have looked any better then Mitch has in this offense on this team, do you??

Watson is more NFL ready than Trubisky and he runs more and doesn't take sacks like Trubisky. However, I still would have been fine as I don't have a problem with Trubisky's numbers. He's a rookie and frankly I would have preferred he sat most of this year anyways.

 

[remydat]

Are you suggesting that once he gets outside that 24 months his increased risk just went away? Seems logical.
As far as triple tears Thomas Davis came back from it but likely you don't here about guys tearing them a third time is they don't make it back to form after the second, so not the best news for Watson.

So Wheatons shoulder injury was predictive of his appendectomy, scratched cornea and groin strain and Whites lower leg injuries were predictive of his shoulder injury, but Watson's torn ACL, which in a study was statistically proven to raise risk of re-injury or contralateral injury in the 2 years post original injury, didn't because he was past the 2 year mark of the study?

Lucky for him they didn't extend the study to 4 years post initial injury or he might have still been at higher risk.

Since you are OK with a preinjured Watson since he was in the clear being 24+ months healthy and no study proved him to be at higher risk at that magic moment and you want to slam Pace for the pre injured WR's, can you provide the studies that link appendectomies and corneal abrasions to shoulder injuries. I would find those intriguing. I mean you surely have good reason to give one a pass and not the others.

No I was just pointing out he was outside the parameters of the study because he was. It was a factual statement.

As for the Bears WRs, it's not a matter of it being predictive. It's a matter of putting too many recently injured players at the same position. It's simply a dumb risk.

Like you are being purposefully obtuse. Watson was injured Nov 15 2014. I don't have a problem with taking a single QB nearly 3 years removed from an ACL injury when he played lights out the 2 years after the injury. Yes there is a risk of reinjury but he's already proven he can have extreme success even after injury.

I have a problem with signing 4 guys to the same position that were all recently injured and/or ineffectual after injury. The fact those guys injured something else is irrelevant. It was a dumb risk at the time because you are stacking a single position with injured players.

 

[remydat]

If you believe only weak minded people have psychological problems you're an idiot. It can happen to anyone.

We are talking about people having psychological problems after a fairly common injury. Yes that's pretty weak minded. We aren't taking psychological problems in general or someone coming back from a war zone and having PTSD. If you aren't get over a knee injury psychological then that is indeed pretty weak. Plenty of people suffer far worse.

There is absolutely zero evidence Watson would develop psychological problems. He didn't the first time and everything he has shown about his character is that he is determined and has a will to succeed. Why the fuck would anyone think he can't handle this is beyond me.

 

[iueyedoc]

No I was just pointing out he was outside the parameters of the study because he was. It was a factual statement.

As for the Bears WRs, it's not a matter of it being predictive. It's a matter of putting too many recently injured players at the same position. It's simply a dumb risk.

Like you are being purposefully obtuse. Watson was injured Nov 15 2014. I don't have a problem with taking a single QB nearly 3 years removed from an ACL injury when he played lights out the 2 years after the injury. Yes there is a risk of reinjury but he's already proven he can have extreme success even after injury.

I have a problem with signing 4 guys to the same position that were all recently injured and/or ineffectual after injury. The fact those guys injured something else is irrelevant. It was a dumb risk at the time because you are stacking a single position with injured players.

So your answer is, "no." You can't cite studies to support your hypothesis that injured players are more likely to have completely unrelated injuries, accidents, and illnesses, again calling it a dumb risk, yet you choose to ignore well performed studies indicating Watson had a much higher risk than normal to have an ACL tear in either knee.


Your ability to ignore actual facts and then throw out your unfounded ideas as some sort of fact that Pace is dumb to not recognize is astounding.

 

[bugg]

im so depressed about this. all these big injuries are ruining the game

 

[Teddy KGB]

Name me one NFL quarterback that has had success after tearing the same ACL twice.

Pegleg Pete?

 

[Myk]

im so depressed about this. all these big injuries are ruining the game

The rash of torn Achilles brings up the question of a certain antibiotic that has a side effect of torn Achilles and other tendon issues. I don't know if kids get that class of antibiotics often enough to be suspect but I know I got one without question in the ER for pneumonia. I know someone else who got one for something else and had the torn Achilles.