Detroit Sports Guy on Gordon, Pistons

[houheffna]

Listening to Monsters in the Morning, they had a radio guy named Mike Valenti.

Here is a synopsis of what he had to say...

1. Dumars is overrated, team hasn't been legit contenders since 2005.

2. Pistons ownership is a team that has been bad for 40 of the 50 years they have owned the team.

3. Gordon cant guard a fire hydrant. Does not have handles for one, does not have size for the two.

4. Hamilton is gone.

5. Gordon is coming off the bench. (ooops!)

6. Stuckey is most overhyped player in the league, atrocious on defense, was not allowed to play in fourth quarter because of his defense.

7. Thinks the Bulls overpaid for Gordon, team is on a definite downslide.


Is it a radio thing? A media thing? I have a feeling fans up there are not that enthused and if they are enthused, they won't be for long.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

I don´t agree with number 3 and I don´t believe number 5!

What do you think who will start at SG for the Pistons?

 

[Kush77]

I don't understand #2. Is he saying the Pistons have been bad for 40 out of 50 years??

They've been a good team for pretty much this whole decade and were good from the mid 80's to the early 90's with the Bad Boys. That's more than 10 years. Didn't they have some decent years in the 70's? I don't know.

And he says the Pistons haven't been a legit title contender since 2005? They had the best record in the league in 2006 when they lost to Miami in the ECF. They also had home court when the lost in the ECF to Cleveland in 2007.

So you can say they've choked. But they were title contenders those years.

 

[Kush77]

He says Hamilton is gone. So if he's gone then Gordon would start. Unless they trade Hamilton for another 2-guard, which I doubt.

And how can he make such a declaration when you don't even know who the coach is gonna be?

 

[houheffna]

You cant start Stuckey and Gordon in the same backcourt...

He is definitely saying that the Pistons have been bad for most of their existence. Shocked me too because of Bing and Lanier but maybe he is right.

For #7 on the list, I meant the Pistons overpaid.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Gordon will start. Not Stuckey. Gordon has more experience and is the better player.

 

[Resident Persian]

Bullseye wrote:

Gordon will start. Not Stuckey. Gordon has more experience and is the better player.

I highly doubt he would start over Stuckey, unless they trade for/sign a legitimate point guard to start with Ben in the back court. How quickly do we forget how bad Gordon's ball handling skills are for a player his size.


Unless they're running the triangle, I really don't see how Ben would play well as the point. If anything, they'd benefit more from him coming off the bench. Ben, due to his size and skill set, is the ideal 6th man. He, IMO, would flourish in the 6th man role. As the sixth man, he would have brought instant offense (the trademark for streaky shooters) and would have been able to mask, for the most part, his relative defensive liabilities (he's not a bad defender, but not someone you want guarding another team's star guard full time). Streaky shooters tend to start cold and also tend to "hog" the ball and inevitably disrupt the flow of the offense. A major reason why we would start games off so slowly during the season is because BG would start off cold, take a lot of wild, early shots to get in "rhythm," and would look for his shot over facilitating ball movement. Sure, throughout the course of the game he would get hot, which would inevitably inflate his shooting percentages, however, his shoot first mentality, along with his streakiness, made him a liability in the 1st quarter. We, thus, were forced to play "catch-up" more times than we probably would have liked. If he would have come off the bench, like he did his rookie season, our offense in the beginning of games would have involved more ball movement, would have been more fluid, and would probably have been more effective, overall.

 

[Kush77]

This Ben Gordon ball handling thing is a bit overrated.

He's not a bad ball handler. He's not mentally challenged.

He gets in trouble when he over-dribbles (which he does). But there's a difference. People are making it seem like he can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[AirP]

Kush77 wrote:

This Ben Gordon ball handling thing is a bit overrated.

He's not a bad ball handler. He's not mentally challenged.

He gets in trouble when he over-dribbles (which he does). But there's a difference. People are making it seem like he can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

You mean when he mishandles a pass off a screen because he's already making his move or when he's got a guy all over him and he dribbles off the side of his leg or foot for an easy 2 the other way, I can understand getting your pocket picked, but these are just dribbling blunders.

Ball handling isn't one of his strong points, had it been up to snuff he could have been our PG a long time ago with Hinrich leaving town for a better SG next to Gordon.

If they utilize Gordon as a one on one guy when most of the starters are on the bench and put him in Rip's role of coming off screens for catch and shoot situations with the starters he'll be a very good scorer for Detroit... but if does the one on ones with the starters you'll hear Detroit fans voice their displeasure with him on every aspect of his game.

 

[Resident Persian]

Kush77 wrote:

This Ben Gordon ball handling thing is a bit overrated.

He's not a bad ball handler. He's not mentally challenged.

He gets in trouble when he over-dribbles (which he does). But there's a difference. People are making it seem like he can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Gordon's ball handling skills are no better than the ball handling skills of the average SG or SF. However, he does not have the ball handling skills are not proficient to be an effective, above average point guard. As a PG, he would essentially be a poor man's AI (i.e. a shoot first PG, who would gladly disrupt the flow of the offense to find his shot). The only difference between the two is that AI is a superior ball handler -- one of the best in the game, skill wise.

The main reason why BG would not make a good PG is his his mental approach to the game. Ben is a shooter - a streaky shooter at that. Streaky shooters need to shoot a lot to be effective. If he isn't shooting the ball, there's really no reason for him to be on the floor, because he is not advanced enough in his other skills for him to be in the game over another player who may be a better ball handler or defender. If he shoots the ball a lot, he disrupts the flow of the offense (the AI effect). Even if he were to somehow develop advanced point guard skills in the near future, he probably wouldn't take advantage of them (did AI?).

Ben's strength is CLEARLY his shooting. No coach in his right mind would or should try to take Ben out of his element, and away from his strengths, and try to make him a point guard. They just had a shoot first PG go through their system (AI), and we all know how that played out, so I doubt they really went out of their way to sign a player with a similar mental approach to the game as AI, but with less advanced PG skills, to play the point. He was obviously brought in to eventually replace Rip or to play the 6th man role.

Also, I hope you realize that one of the most fundamental ball handling skills is knowing to NOT over dribble. 95% of ball handling related turnovers result from over dribbling. One of the main reasons why John Stockton was so great was because he knew when to dribble, when to not dribble, and when to pass the ball. Physically, he was no better than 90% of the point guards in the league during his time, neither was he superior skill wise to most point guards, but his high basketball IQ and knowledge of when and when not to dribble/pass made him a great PG. Hell, even Tyrus could become a good point guard if he knew when to dribble, when to pass, and when to stop dribbling. It is the ONE skill that all great point guards possess. To say that his propensity to over dribble is a minor weakness is extremely inaccurate.

 

[TheStig]

I could really careless what Detroit sports guys think. I have probably seen over 90% of BG's career games and could say that this assessment was valid his first two years. In fact, all that they are citing is the standard nonsense comments that have been floating around since he got here. In the last three years, BG has improved his D, proven he can be a starting sg, handle the ball some and has greatly reduced his turnovers while being one of the purest shooters and top 20 scorer in the league. I am just as qualified to talk about sticky as they are about BG.

 

[Dpauley23]

Gordon is the greatest 3 point shooter of all time. It's pretty hard to replace that

 

[MADman24]

TheStig wrote:

I could really careless what Detroit sports guys think. I have probably seen over 90% of BG's career games and could say that this assessment was valid his first two years. In fact, all that they are citing is the standard nonsense comments that have been floating around since he got here. In the last three years, BG has improved his D, proven he can be a starting sg, handle the ball some and has greatly reduced his turnovers while being one of the purest shooters and top 20 scorer in the league. I am just as qualified to talk about sticky as they are about BG.

Exactly, what do they know about Gordon, have they scouted him? Or are they like most sports personalities using passion to cover for their ignorance?

 

[TheStig]

Dpauley23 wrote:

Gordon is the greatest 3 point shooter of all time. It's pretty hard to replace that

Apparently according to what we are told, Kirk can easily replace him. In fact he must be better since we picked him over BG

Please excuse me while I go vomit.

 

[houheffna]

He's not a bad ball handler. He's not mentally challenged.

Mr. Kush, you have to know better than that. No one is saying he is mentally challenged, but ballhandling is important and there are a few players on this team (Tyrus, Deng) that have to improve in that area. It is an area of weakness with him.

Gordon is the greatest 3 point shooter of all time. It's pretty hard to replace that

Lets look at statistics, that would be false, the greatest of all time was Steve Kerr, who spent some years in Chicago, he shot 45% from 3P while Gordon is at 42%.

I could really careless what Detroit sports guys think. I have probably seen over 90% of BG's career games and could say that this assessment was valid his first two years. In fact, all that they are citing is the standard nonsense comments that have been floating around since he got here. In the last three years, BG has improved his D, proven he can be a starting sg, handle the ball some and has greatly reduced his turnovers while being one of the purest shooters and top 20 scorer in the league. I am just as qualified to talk about sticky as they are about BG.

You should have an opinion on Stuckey, how do you know that Mike Valenti doesn't have NBA League Pass? I am sure he watched his share of Bulls games because it is his job, they were on national television a few times. But I just found it interesting that some people in this forum called the Pistons "contenders". Which I find hillarious. Unless there are 4 or 5 tragic plane crashes, they will not contend for anything but a lottery pick.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

He's not a bad ball handler. He's not mentally challenged.

Mr. Kush, you have to know better than that. No one is saying he is mentally challenged, but ballhandling is important and there are a few players on this team (Tyrus, Deng) that have to improve in that area. It is an area of weakness with him.

Gordon is the greatest 3 point shooter of all time. It's pretty hard to replace that

Lets look at statistics, that would be false, the greatest of all time was Steve Kerr, who spent some years in Chicago, he shot 45% from 3P while Gordon is at 42%.

I could really careless what Detroit sports guys think. I have probably seen over 90% of BG's career games and could say that this assessment was valid his first two years. In fact, all that they are citing is the standard nonsense comments that have been floating around since he got here. In the last three years, BG has improved his D, proven he can be a starting sg, handle the ball some and has greatly reduced his turnovers while being one of the purest shooters and top 20 scorer in the league. I am just as qualified to talk about sticky as they are about BG.

You should have an opinion on Stuckey, how do you know that Mike Valenti doesn't have NBA League Pass? I am sure he watched his share of Bulls games because it is his job, they were on national television a few times. But I just found it interesting that some people in this forum called the Pistons "contenders". Which I find hillarious. Unless there are 4 or 5 tragic plane crashes, they will not contend for anything but a lottery pick.

Once again, I watched at least 70 games this year. I doubt that a sports personality from Detroit who you put in charge of watchign games from every team could have possibly fit in more than 10 bulls games with having the job responsibility of seeing a modest amount of every other team in the league. Even with league pass, I doubt he spent every night from 6pm to midnight watching basketball games for every team in addition to all pistons games and whatever other sports he covers. I also don't feel comfortable giving a informed opinion on stuckey from the 5 or 6 detroit games I have seen this year.

 

[Jamfan]

Dpauley23 wrote:

Gordon is the greatest 3 point shooter of all time. It's pretty hard to replace that

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[houheffna]

Once again, I watched at least 70 games this year. I doubt that a sports personality from Detroit who you put in charge of watchign games from every team could have possibly fit in more than 10 bulls games with having the job responsibility of seeing a modest amount of every other team in the league. Even with league pass, I doubt he spent every night from 6pm to midnight watching basketball games for every team in addition to all pistons games and whatever other sports he covers. I also don't feel comfortable giving a informed opinion on stuckey from the 5 or 6 detroit games I have seen this year.

You don't need to watch 70 games to know how good a player is, I pretty much know Stuckey's game, it took me one game to figure out that he is not a good PG. He is a shooter and that is what he likes to do. But I beleive they have been exposed to Gordon, they watched him in the playoffs a couple of years ago, and if that is any indication, then Valenti's anger is justified.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Once again, I watched at least 70 games this year. I doubt that a sports personality from Detroit who you put in charge of watchign games from every team could have possibly fit in more than 10 bulls games with having the job responsibility of seeing a modest amount of every other team in the league. Even with league pass, I doubt he spent every night from 6pm to midnight watching basketball games for every team in addition to all pistons games and whatever other sports he covers. I also don't feel comfortable giving a informed opinion on stuckey from the 5 or 6 detroit games I have seen this year.

You don't need to watch 70 games to know how good a player is, I pretty much know Stuckey's game, it took me one game to figure out that he is not a good PG. He is a shooter and that is what he likes to do. But I beleive they have been exposed to Gordon, they watched him in the playoffs a couple of years ago, and if that is any indication, then Valenti's anger is justified.

LOL he isn't a shooter, he is a slasher. And just because he isn't a pass first point guard or good today doesn't mean a second yr player can't become better. I suggest you watch more than a game and then comment.

And apparently players aren't allowed to have a bad playoff series because MJ or Bron or Kobe never had a bad series in their careers.

 

[houheffna]

Okay he is a slasher, whatever, he doesn't handle the ball well enough to play the point, and he doesn't guard well.

I have watched damn near all of Gordon's games and I agree with Valenti's opinions. As those others in Chicago, so what is your point?