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My favorite teams
We don't NEED Melo...but he'd be nice. That's my opinion. You are right about the pressure and elite part. But either way, he's not coming here.
We don't NEED Melo...but he'd be nice. That's my opinion. You are right about the pressure and elite part. But either way, he's not coming here.
BigSoxHurt35
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No i know he isn't. Its NJ or NYK
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I did that because it seems like you just love jumping on things I say.
I could definitely hold my own face to face. This whole thing on these "Bulls" forums all boil down to begging for other team's stars, like Knicks fans. I'm personally tired of hearing about lebron not coming here, fans begging for melo, making all kinds of trade scenarios. He's not coming here and we don't need him. I don't mind Deng at the SF spot and lebron not being here. I can't stand lebron as a player and I happen to like rooting against him and watching my team compete against his.
We would be "better" with lebron, but wasn't Cleveland "better" with him, and what did that get them? Nothing. He was the man on the team and couldn't lead them to big dance. I'd take Wade over him because like I said, we had a hole at SG and he would've filled that need, no?
So what do you want me to do? Not be a passionate Bulls fan, but become a more neutral NBA in general fan?
That doesn't work for me. Now I may rub people the wrong way, but that's because I am deeply into my team. I believe in the rivalries and I remember when guys do bogus things to my team. Like when lebron was dancing on the sideline and Noah called his punk ass out for it. I still boo James Posey, no matter who he plays for because of the things he did in Miami in the playoffs against the Bulls, playing like a thug. That's why I hate Rondo.
Now, if you don't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.
My passion comes from having grown up watching the Bulls, working for them for 4 seasons, celebrating in the UC in '96, being there in 93 for Game 5 of the NBA finals, etc.
I'm a die-hard Bulls fan, period. If I upset anyone, I apologize, my bad. But I'm still going to be passionate about my team.
houheffna
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I think you are misguided...not passionate. Passion says "i want the Bulls to win titles". Other franchises hate Noah just as much as you dislike Rondo. However, I bet they would take Noah on their team in a heartbeat...no questions asked...
Question for you...did you hate Rodman? Rondo is not even close to being as dirty as Rodman. And would you have taken Michael Jordan in 1990, when he was the best player in the league, had MVPs and no rings, If you were say...the 76ers with Barkley? Same damn situation here. Now if you don't understand that....I can't help you either...
pinkizdead
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he's the oldest player. it's easier tohave a big and perimeter player . It's also easier torun the pick roll with bosh and lebron. bosh is a good second option. If you had to trade a guy, i'd trade wade for a good role playing sg, starting caliber pg and center. I mean if youcalled up NOH and offered up wade for chris paul and okafer, they'd probabally do it. (it's just a hypotehtical scenario.
just to put it out there. i think we'll have the mle next year. I also think that they heat won't have to blow it up. they're playing rather well.
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People who hate Noah, don't know or understand basketball. He's the type of guy you need on the team. A guy who works hard and doesn't need plays run for him and he's still an impactful player.
Of course I hated Rodman, the way he played with Detroit in the late 80's, early 90's was beyond dirty. The way he pushed Pippen into the stands and busted his lips on a chair had me pissed. After the Bulls beat them, he was never a problem, because he changed his style of play. He stopped being an offensive player and focused solely on rebounds and became the best at it. I respected him after that and how he played in San Antonio. I was shocked at the signing in 95, but when he put on the Red and Black, he repped the Bulls hard, and then he apologized for that push on Pippen at the rally, so all Bulls fans forgave him for that.
He may not be close to Dennis, but in that 09 series, he was knocking on the door. I don't like Rondo because he is overrated and his teammates don't get anywhere near the credit they deserve for the overrating of Rondo. Is Rondo good at what he does? Yes, anyone can see that. But does he have a luxury that no other PG in the league has? You're damn right he does.
lebron is nowhere near in favorable comparison to MJ. Only similarity is that MJ stayed and grew as a leader, while lebron high-tailed it to Miami when the going got rough. Oh, he was fine to gloat and showboat and front run while piling up 127 wins in the regular season, but he withered in the playoffs with the team with the best record in the league. That's why he doesn't compare favorably. MJ never lost a series he was favored to win, and never lost when he had HCA throughout the playoffs. Never.
The situation is similar, but not the same.
Yeah, Jordan in his 7th season had MVP awards, Def. POY, awards, ASMVP, blah, blah blah, but no rings. lebron had 2 MVP's, and that's about it, no rings to add to that. Jordan finally started listening to his coach and trusted his teammates and wound up winning the whole thing. lebron in his 7th season? Well, that was last year and we all know what happened there.
lebron is ONE of the best players in the league, but he is no leader and cracks under pressure. I'd take D-Wade over him. Not because I'm a fan of D-Wade (which I am), but because Wade has proven he can lead a team to a title, while lebron expects to have one handed to him.
I get your analogy, but I don't think it fully applies here.
houheffna
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Lebron is THE best player in the league...and your complaints against Lebron are the exact same complaints against Jordan 20 years ago. That was my point. Jordan's ability to lead was questioned. He was called selfish and that is why the analogy was made. It wouldn't have made sense for any team to say no to Jordan, and it makes absolutely no sense now to say no to the best player in the game. Your thinking Wade is better makes absolutely no sense because Lebron can do everything and more that Wade can do, plus he is bigger, faster, and stronger by a considerable margin.
As far as Rodman goes...you were not watching, he played the same agitating, instigating style of ball he played in the past...nothing changed...he just did it in a Bulls uniform. So I definitely disagree with you on that one. And exactly when was Rodman an "offensive player" so to speak? They didn't call plays for Dennis Rodman. He was a 2x DPOY in his Pistons days and that is what he was known for. He focused more on rebounding...his attitude didn't change much at all. And people still hated him when he came to Chicago, just not so much in Chicago.
Rondo plays with old hall of famers...so what? He has unique abilities that work with that team. He made himself, that team didn't make him. He became a top level player and gained notability against the Bulls in that series, again, he was the MVP...its not even close.
Your views on Noah are homer views and not open minded, and that is why you have different opinions on this stuff than I do...I am a Bulls fan who looks at things a bit more impartially than you do. I take pride in that point of view.
Jordan courted going elsewhere at one point in his career. They didn't have the same system then that they do now so let's not act like Jordan was Captain Loyalty. He wanted to win period, whether he was wearing red and black or poker dots and plaid...winning was the only thing that mattered. I believe that he definitely would have considered leaving Krause and all of his irritation along with Pippen and his migranes given the chance. They are all hypocrites, Jordan, Barkley...all of them because they are speaking on a situation they never had to face. However, Barkley in 1992 did what Carmelo is doing right now. Hindsight is 20/20...I am not fooled by that type of talk. I was a teenager back then and saw the frustration Jordan had when he couldn't beat the Pistons. I saw it in his face, it was undeniable. And by the way...Lebron had no Pippen in Cleveland. His hightailing it only makes sense if he wanted to win. He wasn't winning anything with Cleveland's roster...point blank. As far as on the court...Lebron is a great, great player...no wing player was this good at 25...Jordan's killer instincts was much more evident than Lebron's, but I have seen him show a bit of it this year. But Jordan didn't win a damn thing until he got a hall of fame player. And Jordan was ONE of the best according to some opinions back then, however...at that point, he was the best...period.
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In his first few seasons in Detroit he was scoring the ball, his career high was 34 points. He didn't really look to go insane in the rebound department until after about 92. His style of play was agitating, true, but not the way he was in Detroit going up against the Bulls.
I would appreciate it if you would stop saying I wasn't watching when I was in the Chicago Stadium and United Center on a nightly basis from 93 to 96. From 94 to 95 I worked courtside in both buildings. I was working behind the same goal that Toni Kukoc hit the game winner against NY in the 1.8 seconds game.
I was in the 1st Balcony when Scottie Pippen had that monster dunk on Patrick Ewing, I was doing on court promos for the Bulls during timeouts during the 95 playoffs. I was in the first lower box and had Kadeem Hardison (Dwayne Wayne from A Different World) in my section during Game 5 of the 93 Finals (my first game I ever worked)
So I was definitely watching.
I would appreciate it if you would stop saying I wasn't watching when I was in the Chicago Stadium and United Center on a nightly basis from 93 to 96. From 94 to 95 I worked courtside in both buildings. I was working behind the same goal that Toni Kukoc hit the game winner against NY in the 1.8 seconds game.
I was in the 1st Balcony when Scottie Pippen had that monster dunk on Patrick Ewing, I was doing on court promos for the Bulls during timeouts during the 95 playoffs. I was in the first lower box and had Kadeem Hardison (Dwayne Wayne from A Different World) in my section during Game 5 of the 93 Finals (my first game I ever worked)
So I was definitely watching.
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you 2's back & forth is this whole thread
pinkizdead
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i can barely remember rodman playing. i don't know how you guys can discuss it.
houheffna
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Kadeem Hardison???? Who cares?
I was in math class...doesn't mean I know jackshit about math. Your being there doesn't mean you know basketball.
Its neither here nor there...how can you be at that many games though and not know how great Lebron is as a basketball player?
pinkizdead
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math class is the most useless class that i've ever taken. I got done with calculus, and i've never once used it. not even once.
houheffna
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I am 35 years old. I remember damn near his whole career. He was a capable scorer, but he never averaged more than 11.5ppg....that's all I'm saying...
pinkizdead
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i'll be 27 this year. the most i can remember of rodmanwas the hair.
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Because lebron wasn't in the league then, lol.
I think lebron is great, but not as great as he's hyped up to be. He has MAJOR weaknesses in his game and he needs to improve those areas.
1. He has NO post game whatsoever. How can a guy 6' 9", 270lbs. not have a post game? He's in his 8th season, MJ was working on this by his 6th and had it perfected by 1992. He really needs to add this to his game and he'll be a complete player to me.
2. He relies to heavily on his freakish athleticism. Granted he's the biggest and strongest at his position. He's extremely coordinated and does great things with the ball. That said, he doesn't do much else more than dribble, dribble, dribble, drive to the hoop and hope for a foul, or dunk it really, REALLY hard. Or he'll shoot a fadeaway 3. His gifts are just that, but they can be a curse too. His game is still not polished enough to combat people taking it away from him and he winds up jacking a bunch of 3's.
3. His shooting form sucks. IMO, he shoots too many fadeaway shots which aren't really fadeaway shots. What he does is he'll shoot the ball, pose while taking 3 steps backwards. This doesn't put him in position to rebound the ball or follow his shot. He has improved his 3 point shooting, but it's too much from a guy of his size.
4. He doesn't see anything he needs to work on in his game. This is evidenced by the fact that his game features nothing new since about 4 years ago. It's been the same thing year after year. He gets called great for it, but the true greats, adjust their games to stay ahead of the competition. That's what separated Jordan from the pack. Before his freakish athleticism faded or started to fade, he added a post game. worked on a deadly fadeaway jumpshot from the left and right elbows. This was during the 1990-91 season or so. It was featured more prominent in the 1992 season, by 1993 it was complete money.
I'm no fan of lebron, that much isn't a secret. Is he a great player? Yes he is. Is he as great as his hype? Not even close.
Now, you can go ahead and dismiss this, but it's all good. You think lebron is great and that's your opinion.
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All I was saying was, early in his career he was a capable scorer. He wasn't elite but he was a solid scorer for the pistons. What I'm also saying is that by 1992, that was when you saw him putting up ridiculous rebounding numbers.
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houheffna
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See...this is why I say you don't watch the games...people give these obtuse scouting reports and they don't do much research.
1. Who cares if he can't score in the post? He scored 30ppg last year. The hype never said he was perfect, the hype said he is great...the hype is real brother. And Jordan didn't perfect his post up game in 1992, he perfected it in his 30's, after making his comeback. Jordan did a lot of what Lebron does now, face up and drive to the basket or shoot a mid range jumpshot. Jordan, a shooting guard didn't like shooting threes in 1992 because he said it would inhibit his game, which was facing up and driving to the basket, drawing fouls, shooting mid range shots. Jordan definitely posted when matchups called for it. But he didn't perfect it until he got older and he'd lost some of his quickness on the perimeter. I think you got those years mixed up.
2. You can say the same about Rose...he relies on his freakish athleticism just like Lebron does. That is what Jordan did, Kobe did...its what you do when you are young, you are not going to have it your whole career. Lebron got 2 MVPs in a row relying on his athleticism. That is what makes him great.
3. You are looking at size and not position. Lebron is a SMALL FORWARD...he is not a post player, he is a wing player. He is supposed to shoot. Who gives a damn about his shooting form? Larry Bird had awkward shooting form...so what? You ever watch Magic Johnson shoot a basketball? You are reaching here...
4. You are way off on the Jordan thing. Lebron has improved his game offensively and defensively over the last 4 years. Do you have any documented proof that he said that he doesn't need to improve his game? If so...I stand corrected. But I think you need to show evidence to back that up, you obviously don't watch Lebron play that often...
If you said you didn't want Lebron because of his petulance and his possibly destroying the culture of the team...well, that is a valid argument, though I would have disagreed with you. Trying to find flaws, (which are minuscule at this point) in Lebron's game on the court is being petty.
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So you just summarily dismiss what I say.
1. Who cares if he can't score in the post? He scored 30ppg last year. The hype never said he was perfect, the hype said he is great...the hype is real brother. And Jordan didn't perfect his post up game in 1992, he perfected it in his 30's, after making his comeback. Jordan did a lot of what Lebron does now, face up and drive to the basket or shoot a mid range jumpshot. Jordan, a shooting guard didn't like shooting threes in 1992 because he said it would inhibit his game, which was facing up and driving to the basket, drawing fouls, shooting mid range shots. Jordan definitely posted when matchups called for it. But he didn't perfect it until he got older and he'd lost some of his quickness on the perimeter. I think you got those years mixed up.[/quote]I think you need to re-read what I posted when it comes to this. I didn't say that Jordan perfected his post moves in 1992, I said it was prominently featured in his and by 1992 and by 1993, he had it perfected. I also said he was working it by his 6th season. The reason why I said this is a knock against lebron is because as a player of his size and skill, he would be more unstoppable. Yeah he scored 30ppg last year. So what? He still needs to perfect his game which is something he hasn't done. You mean to tell me seeing lebron on the block with his defender a his mercy isn't the scariest thing in basketball?
Difference, Rose is in his 3rd season and constantly works on improving his game so he doesn't have to rely on his freakish athleticism. Kobe and Jordan continued to work on their game, lebron is getting complacent. Citing his 2 MVP's is a joke. Those awards were his to lose and we all know that. If you don't know that then I don't know what to tell you. When Jordan won his MVP's before his titles, he was the best offensive, defensive, help defender, man defender, etc. in the entire league. lebron is still coasting on his hype.
Actually, I'm not reaching here. lebron is no ordinary small forward,Jordan was SHOOTING GUARD, while lebron is a small forward in a in a power forwards' body.That's the reason he can add a post game to his repertoire, he has the size to do it and in basketball, size is important because it gives you advantages over you defender and he doesn't exploit every possible advantage. You saying he doesn't need to develop a post game, says you care more about the highlights than anything else. Bringing Magic into this is crazy because Buck had post moves and would constantly abuse other PG's, why? Because he was bigger than the rest of them. He was point guard in a power forwards' body and when he came back in 1996, what position did he play? PF. Jordan moved to small forward in Washington and played mostly SF and was primarily in the post.
I don't need documented proof, when I'm just giving my opinion on his game. I watch lebron enough to know if he did certain things I mentioned
he would be truly unstoppable. because as I said before, he relies too much on his athleticism and when that isn't going he turns into a chucker and takes bad shots while dribbling the clock out. This is what got him in trouble in Cleveland. That's why I said he need to improve his game. On the surface it looks fine, but when you dig just a tiny bit deeper than the dunks and the posturing and all of the showboatiing that he does, you'd see that there are glaring holes in his game that he needs to start filling. Then, in my opinion, he would truly be the best in the league. This is his 8th season, there is no excuse that he isn't working on adding new things to his game.
It's not petty, and you would disagree with me either way it went. I see that now. Those holes in his game aren't minuscule as you say. They are big and glaring holes that smart teams exploit, like Boston and Orlando did. If you think he's fine, that's you prerogative, I'm not trying to change your mind. You like big numbers and flashy highlights and that's great basketball to you. I like the finer points of the game. The highlights are cool and all, but the game isn't just about highlights. To me lebron is Magic Johnson's skill set, with Dominique Wilkins's work ethic.
houheffna
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1. No such thing as "more unstoppable" you either are or you are not...you just called Lebron unstoppable, which pisses on your whole argument...including your reasoning for not wanting him on the team. Jordan, Shaq, Magic all had flaws in their games, yet they were unstoppable. That is what matters. Your stating that the best player in the game having flaws is awfully simplistic. He is still the best basketball player in the world! And he is only 26...
2. Where is this complacency? He can't be stopped...he can't be defended. Plain and simple. He worked on his shot, worked on his defense made himself an all league player...that didn't happen automatically.
3. My pointing out that he is a small forward means that he is a wing player. Posting is not what any coach asks him to do. He handles the ball, he is a point forward. Its not his job to post up...why is it that you can't understand that? Its pretty damn easy. As far as the highlights and stuff, that is a load of crap. Lebron James is a great player, I don't watch highlights, I have access to every game, every day. I rarely watch sportscenter. Again, your assumptions are wrong...
4. Now you go from Lebron being unstoppable, to him being stoppable and with your advice, he would be truly unstoppable...good grief. If you think Lebron was the reason the Cavaliers didn't win a title...boy are you not watching the games. You said that "he doesn't see anything he needs to improve in his game", I say do you documented proof of him saying that, you say you don't need it.....OK!!!! Unless you are the Great Gazoo sitting on his shoulder, how do you know what he is thinking unless he said it? You need documented proof brother, otherwise you continue to bloviate on a subject you know nothing about.
By the way, you say Wade is better, and you say that Lebron's not improving after 8 years is inexcusable...you don't think Wade has obvious holes in his game? Where is his post game? He is closer to the end than Lebron is. Their games are similar. You couldn't name any players in the league better than Lebron right now, without lying to yourself. Durant? Flaws, Howard? Flaws. Wade? Flaws. So who could possibly be a better player right now? And who doesn't have things in their game they don't need to work on?
I find it funny that when people like myself criticize Rose, you get offended. Yet the best player on the planet is discussed and you find all of these flaws and blame him for Cleveland's futility in the playoffs...that is a bit much.
I don't like flash and big numbers, I like great players. You seem to like boy scouts and good soldiers and all that b.s. I care about winning, just so you know. If you don't think having Lebron with Rose and Boozer doesn't make the Bulls one of potentially the all time great teams in history...then you were just going to all of those Bulls games for a paycheck and popcorn...not because you were watching the games.
2. Where is this complacency? He can't be stopped...he can't be defended. Plain and simple. He worked on his shot, worked on his defense made himself an all league player...that didn't happen automatically.
3. My pointing out that he is a small forward means that he is a wing player. Posting is not what any coach asks him to do. He handles the ball, he is a point forward. Its not his job to post up...why is it that you can't understand that? Its pretty damn easy. As far as the highlights and stuff, that is a load of crap. Lebron James is a great player, I don't watch highlights, I have access to every game, every day. I rarely watch sportscenter. Again, your assumptions are wrong...
4. Now you go from Lebron being unstoppable, to him being stoppable and with your advice, he would be truly unstoppable...good grief. If you think Lebron was the reason the Cavaliers didn't win a title...boy are you not watching the games. You said that "he doesn't see anything he needs to improve in his game", I say do you documented proof of him saying that, you say you don't need it.....OK!!!! Unless you are the Great Gazoo sitting on his shoulder, how do you know what he is thinking unless he said it? You need documented proof brother, otherwise you continue to bloviate on a subject you know nothing about.
By the way, you say Wade is better, and you say that Lebron's not improving after 8 years is inexcusable...you don't think Wade has obvious holes in his game? Where is his post game? He is closer to the end than Lebron is. Their games are similar. You couldn't name any players in the league better than Lebron right now, without lying to yourself. Durant? Flaws, Howard? Flaws. Wade? Flaws. So who could possibly be a better player right now? And who doesn't have things in their game they don't need to work on?
I find it funny that when people like myself criticize Rose, you get offended. Yet the best player on the planet is discussed and you find all of these flaws and blame him for Cleveland's futility in the playoffs...that is a bit much.
I don't like flash and big numbers, I like great players. You seem to like boy scouts and good soldiers and all that b.s. I care about winning, just so you know. If you don't think having Lebron with Rose and Boozer doesn't make the Bulls one of potentially the all time great teams in history...then you were just going to all of those Bulls games for a paycheck and popcorn...not because you were watching the games.
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