Epstein: "We haven't accomplished anything yet"

[brett05]

Actual every move has a cost both short and long term. The Cubs have added free agents, but they have refused to give up draft picks. And they've avoided long term contracts. What moves could they have made that wouldn't have a cost on the Cubs future?

Been beat to death already over the past years

 

[Parade_Rain]

Been beat to death already over the past years

It has? From what I have seen some were disappointed they didn't go after Fielder. Rizzo looks pretty good. In some ways it's hard to see how they would have righted the ship quickly. I would have preferred to keep Shark but if this is the last year of the bottoming out the conversations next season on this board should be somewhat different.

 

[brett05]

Agreed. 2015 no rational argument should be made on the indifference of mlb wins

 

[dabynsky]

Just to be clear, what is your belief? Is it that the only way to win is to lose first?

Or is it that once Theo took us on this path, there was no going back?

My belief is that the front office inherited a bad situation. A major league team that had been declining and was expensive. A farm system that was devoid of impact talent in the upper minors. That meant they had one of two options in this landscape. They could have spent a ton of money to try to compete. That could have worked had they guessed right on players (CJ Wilson would have been a guy providing value for his deal right now that I wanted at the time), but it also would have meant that the farm system wouldn't have improved dramatically. The Cubs would have been better in 2012 as a result but that also means no Kris Bryant. It also means giving up draft picks and making trades to grab additional talent in the system. It could have worked but it meant a very narrow margin of error because guessing wrong on a guy or two likely results in the whole thing being not much better than now with a weak farm system.

The other option was to bottom out and collect future assets. The Cubs have done this in spades. The results at the major league level have been bad. Historically bad for this franchise because despite other rebuilds the people in charge of the Cubs have been afraid of going all in on this route. But the Cubs have gone from a lower third farm system to best in baseball in 3 years. If the Cubs can get just two studs out of this crop in AA-AAA right now then I think everything will work out. If the Cubs get more than that we can start think about a run of success unknown to this organization. If they all flame out, it is back to the drawing board with a new front office.

I think any sort of middle ground between those two approaches results in this team being just mediocre without any real direction towards the top or bottom at both the major league and minor league levels.

 

[nwfisch]

The whole of what he says matters, and cherry picking lines distorts what was actually said. Example below:

Yes Theo Epstein said every season is sacred, but he also very clearly stated from the beginning that the focus was on the long term whether you choose to ignore those statements or not.

Then Theo is disengenous. If not a liar

 

[Bear Pride]

Lol at CO thanking this post.


Soriano was the best defensive LF in baseball.

Zambrano is the best pitcher in Cubs history.

What about Byrd? He was a great guy, and such a nice guy off the field too.

 

[dabynsky]

Then Theo is disengenous. If not a liar

[video=youtube;23kFiqFiOlA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23kFiqFiOlA[/video]

 

[Bear Pride]

I think it eventually became obvious. But Theo and Rickets first season pressers said said something completely different. They both initially mentioned how every season is important.

Rickets said this:

"In his new role, Theo will be given the resources and opportunity to build a strong foundation and the winning culture that our organization and fans deserve."

Meanwhile he began immediately cutting payroll. Even guys on the other side of this argument agree that Rickets has not given Theo cash resources yet.



Then, Theo said this day-1:


"To me, baseball is better with tradition, baseball is better with history, baseball is better with fans who care, baseball is better in ballparks like this, baseball is better during the day. And baseball is, best of all, when you win,"

And this:

"Every opportunity to win is sacred," Epstein said. "It's sacred to us inside the organization and it should be sacred to the fans as well. They deserve our best efforts to do what we can to improve the club, and put the club in position to succeed in any given season."

Do you feel that he has stuck to this? Do you feel he put us in position to win in 2012? 2013? 2014? or did he do the opposite of trying to win?


And remember when Rickets said he believed we had a team that could make it to the playoffs right now? And then he traded away key members on that "playoff caliber" team?


This after Theo said this:

"Once you get in in October there's a legitimate chance to win the World Series."


Well. If you have a playoff caliber team and just making the playoffs means you have a legit chance to win the WS, then why blow it up?

I admit I initially bought into all this. But it became clear that they were not practicing what they preached. To me, for them to make these comments and then do something completely different is frustrating. Don't they in any way make you wonder why they didn't just shoot straight?

So you're right. Maybe I shouldn't call him boy blunder. But I certainly have been given the right to question whether this 2-year plan that has now stretched into 4 or 5 is actually for real. It'd be silly not to.

..... and then the TV cut to a special announcement with the President of the USA starting by saying "I want everyone to start panicking....".

 

[Bear Pride]

My belief is that the front office inherited a bad situation. A major league team that had been declining and was expensive. A farm system that was devoid of impact talent in the upper minors. That meant they had one of two options in this landscape. They could have spent a ton of money to try to compete. That could have worked had they guessed right on players (CJ Wilson would have been a guy providing value for his deal right now that I wanted at the time), but it also would have meant that the farm system wouldn't have improved dramatically. The Cubs would have been better in 2012 as a result but that also means no Kris Bryant. It also means giving up draft picks and making trades to grab additional talent in the system. It could have worked but it meant a very narrow margin of error because guessing wrong on a guy or two likely results in the whole thing being not much better than now with a weak farm system.

The other option was to bottom out and collect future assets. The Cubs have done this in spades. The results at the major league level have been bad. Historically bad for this franchise because despite other rebuilds the people in charge of the Cubs have been afraid of going all in on this route. But the Cubs have gone from a lower third farm system to best in baseball in 3 years. If the Cubs can get just two studs out of this crop in AA-AAA right now then I think everything will work out. If the Cubs get more than that we can start think about a run of success unknown to this organization. If they all flame out, it is back to the drawing board with a new front office.

I think any sort of middle ground between those two approaches results in this team being just mediocre without any real direction towards the top or bottom at both the major league and minor league levels.

It's not like some of the rule changes and events have made it easy for the Cubs. They've had some obstacles and politics to deal with. Heck, I'm sure Theo would want Love to go spend some more money. It's just Cub bashing, that's all. Most of the people doing the bitching are not Cub fans. I don't see any advantage whatsoever, to constantly whine about it until, at least, we see the kids come up and play ball.

 

[Mr. Cub]

Good lord, you're already starting the "fair weather" argument?

I have been a Cub fan for 50 years. I haven't been to a game in a long time. But I watch now when I can, especially to see a certain few young guys that will be there in the coming years.

When they start winning, if some douchebag calls me a fair weather fan, I'll cut his balls off. I have seen more foul weather than most sports fans can imagine.

It would be true, though. Remember how many people were at Wrigley during the 2003 playoffs? Even the streets was standing room only. There was a shit ton of people in and around Wrigley for those playoffs... I don't remember 07-08 too well, but it probably wasn't much different except we got swept like hoes.

 

[DewsSox79]

It would be true, though. Remember how many people were at Wrigley during the 2003 playoffs? Even the streets was standing room only. There was a shit ton of people in and around Wrigley for those playoffs... I don't remember 07-08 too well, but it probably wasn't much different except we got swept like hoes.

lol at your hoes comment


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