Frank Thomas And The Hall Of Fame

[Gunzaan]

My dad was telling me that Frank Thomas is eligible for the Hall of Fame this year.

Does anyone know when they vote on that?

Will the Big Hurt get in on the first ballot? Will he get in at all?

My opinion is that his career and stats compare with some of the best ever, so I think he will get in but not on the first ballot. With that said, the voters have made tremendously strong statements against known juicers. With Frank having a clean record AND being one of the first players to speak out against steroids/etc, maybe the voters will make a statement by voting him in.

 

[FirstTimer]

If Frank Thomas doesn't get in on the first ballot the HOF needs to close it's doors forever.

 

[FirstTimer]

BTW, the voting is in December.

 

[TheWinman]

He will get in but not get in the first year/

 

[FirstTimer]

He will get in but not get in the first year/

That would be an absolute traveshamockery

 

[FirstTimer]

For reference this was Frank Thomas' average season from 1991-2000

.320/.439/.581(OPS of 1.020) OPS+ of 168
34 HR 115 RBI(per 162 38HRs 127RBI)
2 MVP's 3 Silver Sluggers

That's just beyond stupidly awesome.


His late career peak from02-07 is still damn good too
.265/.381/.523 OPS of .903 OPS+ of 135
28HR 80 RBI's AVG season (Per 162 39HR 112 RBI's)

 

[BigSoxHurt35]

He fucking better get in

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Is there a list of other guys eligible? That might dictate whether he makes it or not.

As a Sox fan, I fucking hope he makes it first ballot. Played during a time when everyone was doping and he never did. And he still kept up with the doped players and even surpassed many of them.

 

[DewsSox79]

Frank Thomas and the HoF

he was amazing to watch. I should have appreciated it more.

 

[brett05]

The announcement is in January I believe.

I would vote him in, however the voters seem to hold back DH's

 

[FirstTimer]

Is there a list of other guys eligible? That might dictate whether he makes it or not.

As a Sox fan, I fucking hope he makes it first ballot. Played during a time when everyone was doping and he never did. And he still kept up with the doped players and even surpassed many of them.

Maddux and Glavine are on the ballot too.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2014.shtml

You have to scroll down some to see the first time guys.

Notables are:

Frank Thomas
Greg Maddux(lock)
Tom Glavine
Moises Alou

 

[DewsSox79]

Frank Thomas and the HoF

Maddux and Glavine are on the ballot too.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2014.shtml

You have to scroll down some to see the first time guys.

Notables are:

Frank Thomas
Greg Maddux(lock)
Tom Glavine
Moises Alou

i love maddux

 

[Gunzaan]

For reference this was Frank Thomas' average season from 1991-2000

.320/.439/.581(OPS of 1.020) OPS+ of 168
34 HR 115 RBI(per 162 38HRs 127RBI)
2 MVP's 3 Silver Sluggers

That's just beyond stupidly awesome.


His late career peak from02-07 is still damn good too
.265/.381/.523 OPS of .903 OPS+ of 135
28HR 80 RBI's AVG season (Per 162 39HR 112 RBI's)

He should have 3 MVPs... Giambi stole one.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Not a lot of competition as far as first ballot guys go. But there's some pretty good names on the ballot.

 

[brett05]

I think it really helped Biggio make the HOF, because he was borderline...

He hasn't made it yet, though I think he's a shoe in this year. Do you think he was a borderline first ballor or HOFer all Together?

Stats I pulled out:

3000 hits 21st all time
7x AS
4x GG
5x Silver Slugger at C and 2b
WAR 134th All Time
Runs 15th All Time
Total Bases 33rd All Time
Doubles 5th All Time
HBP 2nd All Time

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biggicr01.shtml

Just curious, not trying to start anything.

 

[brett05]

Santo off the top of my head is worse.

Funny, when I saw him play I always thought of him as that but didn't think he had the numbers.

I'm not sure what argument you make against him.

He could very well be the worst 3000 hit guy. Of course there have only been 21 of them including him so I would take that.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

I agree with Sparrow. I didn't really think of Biggio as a HOF, definitely not first ballot or second ballot. He also played in a time when there were a buttload of great hitters.

 

[FirstTimer]

Santo off the top of my head is worse.

Funny, when I saw him play I always thought of him as that but didn't think he had the numbers.

I'm not sure what argument you make against him.

He could very well be the worst 3000 hit guy. Of course there have only been 21 of them including him so I would take that.

IMO Santo is better than Biggio. Worst case they are on the same level. Santo being a complete asshole kept him out of the HOF and he became more and more underrated as time went on. He was clearly the second best 3B of his era, and the best offensive 3B.

If Brooks Robinson was a no doubt HOF'er, Santo going in should be that much of a question. Robinson was better but the gap wasn't that wide.


As to Biggio specifically he never really passed the eye test when he played(not with steroids). He was kind of like Tim Brown or Andre Reed. When you were watching them you knew they were pretty damn good players. They were good for a really long time, then at the end of their careers you look up and the totals are there with some other great players but when you watched them put those numbers together they never really had a season or a stretch of seasons where they blew you away or were the best in the game. Maybe I'm underrated his late 1990 numbers? I suppose you could point so some years where Biggio was the best 2B in baseball if you really looked but can you really recall any off the top of your head?

 

[FirstTimer]

More on Biggio it kind of goes to my point.

If you look at his career total similarity scores 8 of the 10 are HOFers:
Yount
Jeter
Joe Morgan
Molitor
Alomar
Ripken
Johnny Damon
Brooks Robinson
Lou Whitaker
George Brett

Then when you go to the similarity score by age you don't have a HOFer show up until his age 39-41 seasons(Joe Morgan/Molitor)

Joe Azcue
Michael Barrett
BJ Surhoff
Jay Bell
Jay Bell
Jay Bell
Rafael Furcal
Rafael Furcal
Ray Durham
Ray Durham
Ray Durham
Alan Trammel
Alan Trammel
Lou Whitaker
Lou Whitaker
Joe Morgan
Joe Morgan
Paul Molitor

I think Biggio is the classic example of a guy who at his peak was very good, not great, and he had a nice long peak for his career and hung around for a long time being good to very good.

Is that HOF worthy? I'm not sure. I lean towards yes.

 

[brett05]

I think Lou Whitaker might be the most accurate comparison to Biggio. I also think that Biggio is the perfect baseball HOFer, because baseball writers and sabermetricians love to look at career numbers and say "See? This guy was a HOFer, the general public was just too dumb to realize it". Biggio would be the Curtis Martin of NFL players.

Great call on Biggio to Martin who (martin) I do not see as a Hof'er on the eye test.

I have to look again at Lou's stats, but he was a HOF'er for me eye test alone as was his double play partner Alan Trammell. They probably don't have the counting numbers, but all I know is when those two were out there, I really hoped for sickness on the Tigers. Then again, those are guys I grew up with so they will always be seen in that light as greater than they possibly were.