gordon over wade.

[PJ Brown]

The bottom line is that Ben doesn't need to be better than Wade and doesn't need to be a #1 option for us to love him. There's plenty of Ben to love! He's a great scorer who makes our team better. He fits next to Rose. He's clearly showed we need to keep him. That's good enough for me.

 

[dougthonus]

Yeah in this point I totally agree with you. The best example for that are the Celtics. But I think the Celtics are so a good team, because they have a big men star with Garnett, a shooting star with Allen and a star like Pierce who can drive very strong and shoot, too. And don´t forget Rondo on PG.
So they have stars on almost every position.

I don´t know if the Bulls would be able to win a championship only with strong guards. We really need a very good big man.

The Bulls won 6 championships without a great offensive front court player, but I agree that in general, it's extraordinarily difficult to win without good front court play.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Yeah but you know... that 6 championships were with Jordan and Pippen. That was a duo you will never see again. MJ and Pippen were able to destroy every defense. Their give and go was perfect. Sure Wennington and Longley were not that good. But I mean Rodman cleaned the boards, Jordan, Pippen and Kerr were good shooters and Harper was surely not the worst PG. And you should never forget the coaching of Phil Jackson.

That we won those championships without a very good frontcourt was in my mind because we had an outstanding star duo. Rose and Wade will never be something close to MJ and Pippen.

The times have changed. You need good players on every position. I also think the Cavs will not win this year, because Wallace and Ilgauskas are not good enough and James can´t do all by himself. Lakers will win with the combination of Bryant, Gasol and Bynum.

 

[dougthonus]

That we won those championships without a very good frontcourt was in my mind because we had an outstanding star duo. Rose and Wade will never be something close to MJ and Pippen.

Wade and Rose could certainly be "close" to Jordan and Pippen, and if they were close, it might be enough to win 1 title rather than 6 titles. Also, we might get a better front court player to help them out.

Anyway, you need to have diverse talent for sure, but total talent is still the most important asset, especially talent condensed into as few bodies as possible. Teams with lots of good players don't fair nearly as well as teams with a few elite players and role players.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Yeah maybe you´re right and it is enough for one title. But there were some people saying the same thing with Ben Wallace a few years ago.

So let´s see what the future brings.

 

[TheStig]

Riker wrote:

You think Gordon wouldn't put up Wade's numbers if he had the permission? Wade gets 22 shots a game, Gordon 16. Wade scores 30 per game, Gordon 20.

That's 6 shots differential. And that's at least 12 points. 20+12 = 32. Just because Gordon isn't taking every time he gets the ball, doesn't make him worse than Wade in scoring department. Wade is way more athletic, gets to the hoop quicker, but Gordon is definitely a better shooter.

Also, Gordon can't risk going to the hoop as much as Wade does. You know, and I know, as soon anyone touches Wade - it's a foul.

Same doesn't apply to Gordon. He can get heckled and still get no call. So why bother.

The only thing we lack is interior presence, I don't see how Wade could fix that for us.


What would be Rose's role in Wade Bulls?

Wade shoots a higher fg% and ts%, no matter how many shots BG puts up Wade will always have more points if he is given the same amount of shots.

 

[charity stripe]

dunkside.com

no, you don't
when he came into the league all beasley could do was shoot long 2s and occasionally go for a lefty layup.
if you saw the last games of the heat (which i doubt) you'd see he has improved A LOT. he is more aggressive on offense, he is a much better rebounder and his defense has improved considerably.

the reason they moved him to the bench is because he's the only one on the heat that can create his own shot and doesn't need wade. thus their 2nd unit can benefit from his scoring, otherwise they'd be killed by the opponents bench.

I think you misunderstood my point. Michael Beasley is capable of being a #1 guy on a good team. He will never be that guy as long as Wade is his teammate. Similarly, Derrick Rose is capable of being a #1 guy on a good team. He will never be that guy as long as Wade is his teammate. You will not get the best out of Rose if he is paired with Wade, just like Beasley is experiencing.

 

[dunkside.com]

charity stripe wrote:

I think you misunderstood my point. Michael Beasley is capable of being a #1 guy on a good team.

that you don't know yet.
i'm pretty sure the same thing was once said about michael redd, too.
and look at him now. where did he lead his team (other than the lottery) ?!

charity stripe wrote:

He will never be that guy as long as Wade is his teammate.

Even if Beasley could be #1 on a good team, Wade was no 1 on a CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM.
I'd take that over Beasley and his good team any day.

charity stripe wrote:

Similarly, Derrick Rose is capable of being a #1 guy on a good team. He will never be that guy as long as Wade is his teammate. You will not get the best out of Rose if he is paired with Wade, just like Beasley is experiencing.

Even if so, if getting Wade meant Rose only reaching 80% of his potential but the Bulls getting a title I'd be all for it. After all, if I'm not mistaking, this is a Chicago Bulls forum, not a Derrick Rose forum.

One other thing - Jordan did not produce all he was capable of while winning those titles. He could have probably scored 5 more points per game by being more selfish. But then he wouldn't have won. In every title team superstars have to alter their own game for the good of the team. You can take Kobe as an example: a few years ago he'd gun like crazy and score 35 per game and get booted in the 1st round. Now his stats are down by quite a lot, but his team is 1st in the West. I think that if you look at every star that moved from a bad team to a contender you'll see that their stats took a hit. Latest examples: Garnett and Ray Ray to the Celtics.

 

[Hendu0520]

Dunkside great job destroying those arguements, this is absolutely hilarious. I love how people say Rose and Ben match well together and we don't know how Wade/Rose would be so it can't be as good as Rose/Ben. C'mon I love how people can assume one way or another like it is fact. We haven't seen Wade with Rose so what possible reason would you think that it wouldn't be a good thing. Wade is a one man show because his team is absolute garbage. It's not like Keven Martin who scores a lot because he is on a bad team. Wade will score 30 no matter what, I'll take that any day and see if that would mesh. Even if Ben and Wade were even offensively (which they aren't, Wade is better) Wade is 10 times the defender. Great job Doug: Lets sign Doug then Rose can take every shot, listen to yourselves!

 

[charity stripe]

dunkside.com wrote:
charity stripe wrote:

Similarly, Derrick Rose is capable of being a #1 guy on a good team. He will never be that guy as long as Wade is his teammate. You will not get the best out of Rose if he is paired with Wade, just like Beasley is experiencing.

Even if so, if getting Wade meant Rose only reaching 80% of his potential but the Bulls getting a title I'd be all for it. After all, if I'm not mistaking, this is a Chicago Bulls forum, not a Derrick Rose forum.

One other thing - Jordan did not produce all he was capable of while winning those titles. He could have probably scored 5 more points per game by being more selfish. But then he wouldn't have won. In every title team superstars have to alter their own game for the good of the team. You can take Kobe as an example: a few years ago he'd gun like crazy and score 35 per game and get booted in the 1st round. Now his stats are down by quite a lot, but his team is 1st in the West. I think that if you look at every star that moved from a bad team to a contender you'll see that their stats took a hit. Latest examples: Garnett and Ray Ray to the Celtics.

I know this is a bulls forum. I would like the players to be at their best, which would mean the team will be at its best. How would would Rose alter his game anyway? His best traits are getting to the rim and setting up teammates, which are also the best traits of Wade. That redundancy I feel is not going to win a title because you need a balance/complimentary parts/skills across the board. You wouldn't get that with a Rose/Wade backcourt. The best way to win a title to me is Rose + good big man like Amare or Bosh + great high scoring shooter from the SF or SG position. Then the rest of the pieces should be good, solid complimentary players who play their role - rebounders, defenders, bench scoring, etc.