Hawks still not profitable.

[Ton]

Sorry, I refuse to believe that. What a crock.



Why does Rocky pay McD's salary again?



Can someone explain this quote:



"You can technically lose money during the playoffs if you don't raise your ticket prices" for them, Wirtz said.



How is this possible? At that point players "technically" aren't making any money and work for FREE!

 

[Guest]

Yea, but his excuse for that was the profit sharing. Half the playoff revenue went back into the hopper.



It's no doubt bullshit. Hell they sold 500 of those "Old timers pictures" for 1000 bucks. Small sample size, but what a bunch of horse crap.



Lying is one thing. Lying about something so blatantly as if everyone else is a complete bumbling idiot?



I should make a new sig.....



While some things change, others will ALWAYS remain the same.

 

[roshinaya]

I don't think they consider UC concession sales and parking as Hawks revenue. That could explain why the Hawks are operating at a loss. It's all about the creative accounting. The Hawks are lucky that the owner has a shitload of money coming in from other businesses.



I don't think it's at all incredible that the Hawks are in the red. They dug themselves into a hole with $Bill and it will take a boatload of money to get out of it and a couple successful seasons aren't going to cut it. Especially since they don't cut on the expenses to make sure that the Blackhawks gets a reputation as a first-class organization that will surely be a factor when UFA's are looking at their options. Word goes around on how things are ran on all the teams in the league. It's one of those short-term loss and long-term profits things.

 

[jakobeast]

I agree. It's creative accounting. The Blackhawks, it is possible, could have lost money. There is a difference between the Hawks and Wirtz. Wirtz owns Red Top, not the Hawks. The Hawks don't own the concessions, and so on. If there wasn't money sharing within the Wirtz corp, or He didn't have the other businesses to lean on, what would the Hawks look like. Don't forget There are more people working for the organization too. The front office tripled.



The NHL takes 50% of the gate in the playoffs. That seem a little shitty.



And I want my cheap seat brothers to be honest with themselves. 15 bucks for the caliber of talent we saw the last couple of years was ridiculously low. 20 bucks for the upcoming is pretty damn reasonable as well.



Don't take this as me defending the decisions that cut deep on some folks, especially in this economy. I have no doubt I will eventually be priced out. I also think there are some crazy expenses, but if it makes players want to come here, if it makes Chicago a destination, maybe then it's worth it.

 

[canucklehead]

[quote name="jakobeast"]I agree. It's creative accounting. The Blackhawks, it is possible, could have lost money. There is a difference between the Hawks and Wirtz. Wirtz owns Red Top, not the Hawks. The Hawks don't own the concessions, and so on. If there wasn't money sharing within the Wirtz corp, or He didn't have the other businesses to lean on, what would the Hawks look like. Don't forget There are more people working for the organization too. The front office tripled.



The NHL takes 50% of the gate in the playoffs. That seem a little shitty.



And I want my cheap seat brothers to be honest with themselves. 15 bucks for the caliber of talent we saw the last couple of years was ridiculously low. 20 bucks for the upcoming is pretty damn reasonable as well.



Don't take this as me defending the decisions that cut deep on some folks, especially in this economy. I have no doubt I will eventually be priced out. I also think there are some crazy expenses, but if it makes players want to come here, if it makes Chicago a destination, maybe then it's worth it.[/quote]

I don't see how it would even be remotely possible that they were to loose money last season when they had an operating income of 20.9 million dollars the year before. unless they mean that they are loosing out on potential profits because they could have jacked the hell out of ticket prices and made a couple extra thousand barrels of money... so i guess they will be doing that this year.

 

[jakobeast]

I say expect a lot more commercials during the game. Ugh.

 

[canucklehead]

oh, and i'm already priced out of tickets, being a single income household with 2 people in university. good thing I can still afford internet so i can watch all the games for free.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="roshinaya"]I don't think they consider UC concession sales and parking as Hawks revenue. That could explain why the Hawks are operating at a loss. It's all about the creative accounting. The Hawks are lucky that the owner has a shitload of money coming in from other businesses.



I don't think it's at all incredible that the Hawks are in the red. They dug themselves into a hole with $Bill and it will take a boatload of money to get out of it and a couple successful seasons aren't going to cut it. Especially since they don't cut on the expenses to make sure that the Blackhawks gets a reputation as a first-class organization that will surely be a factor when UFA's are looking at their options. Word goes around on how things are ran on all the teams in the league. It's one of those short-term loss and long-term profits things.[/quote]



They most certainly do. Just as the Bulls do for their games. Except parking, Wirtz owns that out right.



Bill most certainly wasn't losing what they said they were but true, they were losing money. So are you saying until all of those years are made up for they are still in the red? From the way I read it this year was in the red. There was no "making Up" for previous seasons.



It's just a bunch of bullshit.

 

[Larmer83]

[quote name="canucklehead"]

I don't see how it would even be remotely possible that they were to loose money last season when they had an operating income of 20.9 million dollars the year before. unless they mean that they are loosing out on potential profits because they could have jacked the hell out of ticket prices and made a couple extra thousand barrels of money... so i guess they will be doing that this year.[/quote]

It's a question of operating income vs overall profit/loss.



Last season the team upgraded accommodations, constructing a private locker room, workout facility and offices at Johnny's IceHouse West, the Hawks' practice facility. The team declined to say how much the addition cost.



So while the outlays of the above are not operating income, at some point they get deducted on an income statement. Since the Hawks do not carry any debt, all of the improvements(Capital expenditures) can be deducted. If they would have borrowed the money for the improvements, the interest and principal paid to finance the improvements(a much smaller amount) would be deducted.

 

[Guest]

Larmer gets it. As long as they can continue "creating" creative income, Like Johnny's II, they'll continue to NOT be profitable.

 

[Sathington Willoby]

I'm sure the Wirtz family has some of the best/most creative accountants on their payroll. They can easily spin the numbers however it suits the organ-i-zation.

 

[E Runs]

Wow, I guess it's tough to turn a profit on a $7 hotdog.



Aside from creative accounting I wonder how much debt the Blackhaws are paying back to the other Wirtz entities? I'm sure that has a lot to do with the "unprofitability".

 

[roshinaya]

[quote name="E Runs"]Wow, I guess it's tough to turn a profit on a $7 hotdog.



Aside from creative accounting I wonder how much debt the Blackhaws are paying back to the other Wirtz entities? I'm sure that has a lot to do with the "unprofitability".[/quote]



This is exactly what I meant about the Hawks being a hole. These are all different entities in the Wirtz empire and I bet they want their money back. Why is it so hard to believe that the Hawks could be in the red? Do people have experience running a multimillion dollar pro sport organization? Do they have access to the accounting books?

 

[fanof19]

[quote name="Larmer83"]

It's a question of operating income vs overall profit/loss.



Last season the team upgraded accommodations, constructing a private locker room, workout facility and offices at Johnny's IceHouse West, the Hawks' practice facility. The team declined to say how much the addition cost.



So while the outlays of the above are not operating income, at some point they get deducted on an income statement. Since the Hawks do not carry any debt, all of the improvements(Capital expenditures) can be deducted. If they would have borrowed the money for the improvements, the interest and principal paid to finance the improvements(a much smaller amount) would be deducted.[/quote]



plus you have a team president spending money like it's a never ending bucket of it. many perks for people that you question. INTERNS getting a Cup ring? the rings are said to be priced at $30,000 each. hard to show a profit if the spending is rampant.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="E Runs"]Wow, I guess it's tough to turn a profit on a $7 hotdog.



Aside from creative accounting I wonder how much debt the Blackhaws are paying back to the other Wirtz entities? I'm sure that has a lot to do with the "unprofitability".[/quote]



My point exactly. It cost me roughly 15-20 bucks in food and drinks at the game, and that's for a nacho's and two cokes. I was even able to drink alcohol yet.



So great, raise ticket prices, it's not like were in a down economy.

 

[MassHavoc]

I would love to see them not sellout badly enough that they couldn't fudge the numbers to keep the consecutive games streak alive. Sadly enough the only thing to stop the prices from going up are for people to stop going. And We are just too dumb (or is it proud) to do that.

 

[IceHogsFan]

What must discussed is the value of the team as well.



I have never heard the numbers but let's assume the team was worth $100 million

three years ago. What do you think the value of the team would be last season?

 

[MassHavoc]

My question is, if the hawks are making x amount of revenue and they are paying Wirtz Co. Y amount for services rendered.... what get's reported to to the league for purposes of revenue sharing? The revenue they made or the -revenue they reported?

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I heard that Bobby was offered a $10 mill bonus from the KHL to be an ambassador for them, and Rocky is not going to match.

 

[Larmer83]

[quote name="IceHogsFan"]What must discussed is the value of the team as well.



I have never heard the numbers but let's assume the team was worth $100 million

three years ago. What do you think the value of the team would be last season?[/quote]

5Minutes4Fighting posted this in the "Another NHL Work Stoppage" thread in the NHL Talk Section.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/31/hoc ... ncome.html



Per the report, the value was $258 million at the end of the 2008-09 season. The one year increase was 26%.



Put in perspective, the S & P 500 declined approximately 28% in the same period.