Henri Jokiharju, a former 1st-round pick, to the Sabres for forward Alex Nylander

[Raskolnikov]

The major issues I've heard about him are his work ethic and possibly being an all tools/no toolbox type of guy like Morin, Skille, etc. I won't discount a change of scenery or a late bloomer possibility with him. We'll have to see though. He is a 'hawk and I hope he is closer to his assumed ceiling as opposed to his assumed floor. I'm just a little worried that like with Sikura, if he flounders that they'll keep him in an unsuitible slot far past his use-by date.

I'm 100% confident he'll get every chance to succeed (and I think every 'hawk fan hopes he does succeed). Why wouldn't he? He's a Stan kid and Stan would love to herald him as yet another example of a blind squirrel finding a nut his ability to find a scrap-heap player and turn them into something useful.

Their draft slotting see's the Hawks jump 20 spots in the flip, and I'm sure that factored into lack of pick...to convince them to give up on a high pick...

I'm trying to keep an open mind for another 11 months until expansion draft and we see how some of these complications and movements work out.

 

[MassHavoc]

My mind is closed, Stan needs to go, so no amount of haggling is going to change that. He needs to get to the finals this year or get out. I don't want another year of him doing just good enough to make us thing he's got hope and maybe they'll be alright. No more settle for mediocrity. It's battered fan syndrome.

I could take it if there was a clear direction and understanding of the how and why, but the clearly trying to win trades instead of just making moves you know are good for both teams, and the trying to prove he's the smartest guy in the room. **** it. Do or die.

 

[Raskolnikov]

My mind is closed, Stan needs to go, so no amount of haggling is going to change that. He needs to get to the finals this year or get out. I don't want another year of him doing just good enough to make us thing he's got hope and maybe they'll be alright. No more settle for mediocrity. It's battered fan syndrome.

I could take it if there was a clear direction and understanding of the how and why, but the clearly trying to win trades instead of just making moves you know are good for both teams, and the trying to prove he's the smartest guy in the room. **** it. Do or die.

Well, in watching Stan's interviews during "Path to the Draft" specials, you can clearly see a change in thinking with Stan to seek and develop guys who have "playoff potential." Intensity, physicality, desire. He has adapted his belief system somewhat to his failures, and I have been complaining about that stuff for quite a while so I am just relieved to hear it out of his mouth, see it in the stature of the current draft class, and know that they started to seek things other than stick handling as criteria to be a Hawk.

I think he is a smart guy, and he is the kind of smart guy that knows to listen to people and to build a team around him that can build a team around all of them and the way they are running this franchise is the complete opposite of Gruden/McKay and the Raiders who want to be dictators.

They are developing processes where everyone in the building gets heard. Where scouts are out there on the road seeking opportunities to support young players already in the system while they do their other jobs.

Players still smile when they are traded here, and I'm not going to claim battered fan syndrome having witnessed 3 cups in the last decade.

Stan fucked two playoff births with one move. Panarin.

that issue is finally in the past as of this summer. I think he made a completely idiotic, stupid, asshole of a decision to separate the kind of chemistry that Kane/Panarin had. They were like fucking peanut butter and jelly and its an inconceivable mistake to me, you and Q and everyone else.

But it was one mistake. It had a two year shelf life before Bread Man got his bread.

I see alot of other things that Stan does well and the Hawks will still be standing proud while the Rangers try to justify to their fan base why the little Russian making 13+ can't fix them.

 

[anotheridiot]

I see the direction, right to the shitter. Clearly his mindset is draft and develop talent, then bring in betterans with 3 years of control when your talent is ready to make the roster. That has you paying 8.5 million plus for two guys you should be paying 2 million that you have ready to make an impact. It also clogs up your cap number when you have to find a way to pay Strome and Cat, one or both will be shipped out when they wont accept the bridge contract the next GM will get blamed for trying to get them to sign.
We are forced to wait and see if either DeHaan or Matta is the next Trevor Daley that does not fit the system and is traded by January.

 

[LordKOTL]

Their draft slotting see's the Hawks jump 20 spots in the flip, and I'm sure that factored into lack of pick...to convince them to give up on a high pick...

I'm trying to keep an open mind for another 11 months until expansion draft and we see how some of these complications and movements work out.

My opinion, but I think the idea of "jumping draft spots" is a very faulty way of thinking once you get away from the actual draft year. Hell look at it from the reverse angle:

The 'hawks traded for an undrafted Brandon Maschinter and gave up a #11 Kyle beach. You can say the Rangers jumped well over 100 draft picks...but in the end Maschinter was something a little more than useless, while Beach was completely useless. It doesn't matter in the end how many picks the Rags jumped up--they got the worst player in the transaction

When you compare what Nylander has actually done on the NHL ice vs. Joker, Joker's above him even though the sample size is questionable irrespective of draft slotting. My take is that their draft slot has to be damned because in 3 years Nylander hasn't proved much. Irrespective of Joker's standing as a 'hawk he at the time of the trade was the better player, and thus a 1 for 1 was in my opinion, us selling low and buying high.

If Nylander being #8 in the 2016 draft was a major reason why Stan was unwilling to pry at least a conditional pick back in the transaction, then he dropped the ball.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I see the direction, right to the shitter. Clearly his mindset is draft and develop talent, then bring in betterans with 3 years of control when your talent is ready to make the roster. That has you paying 8.5 million plus for two guys you should be paying 2 million that you have ready to make an impact. It also clogs up your cap number when you have to find a way to pay Strome and Cat, one or both will be shipped out when they wont accept the bridge contract the next GM will get blamed for trying to get them to sign.
We are forced to wait and see if either DeHaan or Matta is the next Trevor Daley that does not fit the system and is traded by January.

If Murphy won't protect Crow or Kane I don't give a **** how well he fits the system. He signed up for the fucking National Hockey League and he needs to get his face mashed now and again to give somebody a death stare at least.

That is my major gripe with him, despite his second half performance and fitting Colloton better than Q. Be a big guy and be willing to sacrifice for your fucking netminder who sacrifices everything.

But yeah..Maata may be too slow to have on the same squad as Seabrook. Willing to see what Seabrook-DeHaan and Maata-Murph pairings look like though.

Hate to lose an ascending KK or stifle Bovquist...but all these pieces may mean something at the trade deadline, or the expansion draft.

 

[Raskolnikov]

My opinion, but I think the idea of "jumping draft spots" is a very faulty way of thinking once you get away from the actual draft year. Hell look at it from the reverse angle:

The 'hawks traded for an undrafted Brandon Maschinter and gave up a #11 Kyle beach. You can say the Rangers jumped well over 100 draft picks...but in the end Maschinter was something a little more than useless, while Beach was completely useless. It doesn't matter in the end how many picks the Rags jumped up--they got the worst player in the transaction

When you compare what Nylander has actually done on the NHL ice vs. Joker, Joker's above him even though the sample size is questionable irrespective of draft slotting. My take is that their draft slot has to be damned because in 3 years Nylander hasn't proved much. Irrespective of Joker's standing as a 'hawk he at the time of the trade was the better player, and thus a 1 for 1 was in my opinion, us selling low and buying high.

If Nylander being #8 in the 2016 draft was a major reason why Stan was unwilling to pry at least a conditional pick back in the transaction, then he dropped the ball.

Yeah...

short notice for Nylander and a cancelled vacation may not have been the best mindset to drop Nylander into the Hawks prospect fire, you just hate to see him lose the puck and not hustle back. That was the one play that rubbed alot of people I think, a couple lazy floating around shifts.

They didn't have a great use for Joker after trades and rise of KK/Bovqist/Mitchell passing his progression I don't think.

It was a guy they wanted at the draft and missed out on, was the echoing sentiment I gleaned from Bowster, and that both guys needed a change of scenery situation and with Nylander...all you got to fix is the guys motor. They though their organization could uplift his spirits and do that.

Now he got a taste of ethic expected around here, got a humble pie that this won't be no easier than the Buffalo system, and he needs to stare his last chance in the face and take the new conditioning program home and get it done.

Or not. And Q2 or the Saarella's or the Sikura's or Entwhistle or Kurashev or Hogan will be happy to jump into his opportunity and give the Hawks everything they have.

Joker didn't do enough to get ahead of the Stan Bowman pin wheel. Bovqist and Dach did what they had to do to be untouchables. Nature of the beast.

 

[anotheridiot]

I dont know if he did not do enough, he had 12 assists on the hawks, went to Rockford for 30 games and had 17 points, 2 goals 15 assists being a +7.

You compare that to Nylander who probably wont do anything for the Hawks.

On top of that, he passed on Byram even though he knew Joker was out of the mix.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I dont know if he did not do enough, he had 12 assists on the hawks, went to Rockford for 30 games and had 17 points, 2 goals 15 assists being a +7.

You compare that to Nylander who probably wont do anything for the Hawks.

On top of that, he passed on Byram even though he knew Joker was out of the mix.

One word.

Bovquist

Second word.

Dach.

Bovqist + Dach = better for Hawks now, and in future than Joker + Byram


But I hear you. I don't get the Joker for Nylander thing either, seems like Joker could have brought back much more in a larger combination trade near the deadline.

There are things we don't know...did Joker request a trade? Were they concerned their situation was going to stall him? Were they concerned his progress had stalled?

Or...Nylander could end up fitting. I am just defending Stan a bit...its a hard job.

 

[Tater]

Yeah...

short notice for Nylander and a cancelled vacation may not have been the best mindset to drop Nylander into the Hawks prospect fire, you just hate to see him lose the puck and not hustle back. That was the one play that rubbed alot of people I think, a couple lazy floating around shifts.

Chain him to a chair for several hours and make him watch videos of the Hoss back-checking.

 

[anotheridiot]

One word.

Bovquist

Second word.

Dach.

Bovqist + Dach = better for Hawks now, and in future than Joker + Byram


But I hear you. I don't get the Joker for Nylander thing either, seems like Joker could have brought back much more in a larger combination trade near the deadline.

There are things we don't know...did Joker request a trade? Were they concerned their situation was going to stall him? Were they concerned his progress had stalled?

Or...Nylander could end up fitting. I am just defending Stan a bit...its a hard job.

If the one word was Bovquist, then they should have chosen between DeHass and Maata so he had a job to win. Byram would have come in and demanded that 6th spot on the d man dress roster and even that spot was gone. Bovquist is even depending on Murphy or Seabroke starting the season injured. I highly doubt Gus' power play dominance will ship him to Rockford.

Nalimov requested a trade too, they said no. All it points to is a bad choice at the draft. I think getting a third overall in strome, a 12th overall in perlini, now an 8th overall in Nylander, seemingly all three were bad choices by their first team too.

 

[Raskolnikov]

If the one word was Bovquist, then they should have chosen between DeHass and Maata so he had a job to win. Byram would have come in and demanded that 6th spot on the d man dress roster and even that spot was gone. Bovquist is even depending on Murphy or Seabroke starting the season injured. I highly doubt Gus' power play dominance will ship him to Rockford.

Nalimov requested a trade too, they said no. All it points to is a bad choice at the draft. I think getting a third overall in strome, a 12th overall in perlini, now an 8th overall in Nylander, seemingly all three were bad choices by their first team too.

fair enough.

Like Garpax he spins alot of wheels sometimes. I think we could do worse than Stan, and I am still very unsure about having Harry Potter as the head coach so soon out of primary school.

 

[LordKOTL]

Chain him to a chair for several hours and make him watch videos of the Hoss back-checking.

I like the cut of your jib, but I'm not sure it would work that way--otherwise Saad would have been better the past 2 seasons since he had direct osmosis by playing *with* Hossa.