hinrich a no stat, all star?

[Fred]

dougthonus wrote:

We all know Gordon is a better scorer than Hinrich, who are you arguing with? Who denies this? Is there anything else on the basketball court that he's better at Hinrich at? Possibly not.

Even so, I think most people also believe that Gordon is a better play than Kirk as well in fact, despite your assertion that the world is filled with Hinrich lovers who hate Gordon I've yet to be overwhelmed by this group you suggest exists and in fact, can think of no one who takes this stance at all.

Kirk has played well this year. I believe at his current level of play he's probably worth his contract, and if it weren't for the economic decline, he would have definitely been worth it. I'd still keep Gordon over Kirk if we could come to reasonable terms with him.

I'm not trying to argue that Ben is a better scorer than Kirk. That is a given. There aren't many players in the NBA who are better scorers than Ben.

My point is, this organization and this team needs scoring from Kirk Hinrich. At the ESPN "Lunch with a Legend" that Mark and I attended during the trainwreck 07-08 season, John Paxson made that clear. To summarize, he said: "We view Kirk as a combo guard. Kirk needs to score for this team, and we want him to be more assertive on the offensive end." And just because we have Rose now doesn't mean we absolve Kirk of his scoring burden. If anything, he'll be playing the 2 now, and you'll need it more from him.

You don't sign contracts like that to just play defense. He needs to bring it at both ends of the floor. My point was, Kirk has a habit of only bringing it on the offensive end against crap teams. I've documented this for the past 2 years. I want to see him have a big game against a really solid team, and I think a lot of us are guilty of overrating his season. This isn't unusual.

"Is there anything else on the basketball court that he's better at Hinrich at?" Ben's far better at drawing fouls, and he rarely commits stupid fouls. This is the exact opposite of Kirk, and it's an underrated factor in winning and losing games. Ben's a better pick-setter, and he's the best player on the team at coming off of picks. It's an underrated talent. Watch how Ben comes off a pick, and watch how Luol comes off a pick....Ben's not afraid of contact, and Deng is. Ben's better on the jump ball. Ben's better with the refs. I'd probably come up with a few more if I had the time, but I have to get back to work.

Doug, are you denying the existence of the drones? They are everywhere. We have intelligent people on this site, so you don't find as many. When we go the playoff game next week, we're going to randomly ask 20 people, "Who is the better basketball player, Kirk or Ben? 15 out of 20 will say Kirk. I've done it before. And it makes me want to vomit.

 

[dougthonus]

My point is, this organization and this team needs scoring from Kirk Hinrich. At the ESPN "Lunch with a Legend" that Mark and I attended during the trainwreck 07-08 season, John Paxson made that clear. To summarize, he said: "We view Kirk as a combo guard. Kirk needs to score for this team, and we want him to be more assertive on the offensive end." And just because we have Rose now doesn't mean we absolve Kirk of his scoring burden. If anything, he'll be playing the 2 now, and you'll need it more from him.

Do you think Kirk is asked to be more than the 4th or 5th scorer on this team right now with Rose, Salmons, and Gordon on it? I don't, he's clearly asked to score less than those three guys, making him our 4th most important wing scorer. At one point we may have needed more scoring out of him, but not right now.

I think he's doing exactly what he should be doing right now.

You don't sign contracts like that to just play defense. He needs to bring it at both ends of the floor. My point was, Kirk has a habit of only bringing it on the offensive end against crap teams. I've documented this for the past 2 years.

When he signed the contract he was scoring more and he was the starting point guard and had to distribute and do other things. Rose has changed his role around more, and he's not doing as much as he would have otherwise. If we had drafted lopez at #9 because we didn't win the lottery then Kirk's role would be much larger. Would that have then made his contract a better decision several years ago?

I want to see him have a big game against a really solid team, and I think a lot of us are guilty of overrating his season. This isn't unusual.

I think you are guilty of vastly underrating him. You have said he's one of your three most hated Bulls of all time. I don't think he's a great player, but he's a good player.

He can give you some shooting, passing, ball handling, defense, intangibles, listens to the coach, is a good locker room guy, can play two positions, and has played well as a starter or off the bench. He's not great at any one thing, he might be a bit overpaid presently.

However, at the end of this season, he'll be averaging 8.5 million for the next three years. I don't know what you think Kirk is worth, but it's got to be at least 6 million. Personally, I think 8 million is fair, and for some teams possibly more.

The amount of hate you have for the guy making maybe 2 million more than he deserves is just crazy.

Doug, are you denying the existence of the drones? They are everywhere. We have intelligent people on this site, so you don't find as many. When we go the playoff game next week, we're going to randomly ask 20 people, "Who is the better basketball player, Kirk or Ben? 15 out of 20 will say Kirk. I've done it before. And it makes me want to vomit.

Is there some people out there that think that way? Maybe.

How about we ask 20 people if Ben Gordon is in their top 3 hated Bulls of all time and see how many say yes like Kirk Hinrich is in your top 3 hated Bulls of all time.

 

[??? ??????]

Doug, there is definitely a drone army. Although they are significantly fewer in number at this point because of Gordon's great season.

But here was a piece I had to write in November, that proves the existence of the drone army.

In the middle of the fourth quarter during the Bulls game against the Dallas Mavericks yesterday, Derrick Rose clapped for the ball and Ben Gordon went ahead not passing to Rose and instead driving the ball in.

The message boarders went on to blow this into a controversy up as evidence of Gordon’s selfishness this season. They have fabricated stories about Del Negro calling a play which Rose called out that Gordon ignored. Stories have also been fabricated about Del Negro nodding agreeingly with Rose that Gordon did something wrong. This misunderstanding of the situation was likely caused by Neil Funk’s and Stacey King’s announcing during this time, where they blasted Gordon for not passing the ball to Rose.

A simple look back at the game on League Pass Broadband tells a significantly different story. Here is what actually happened.

Ben Gordon misses a shot and Tyrus Thomas grabs the rebound. Thomas passes it to Andres Nocioni at the top of the key who gives it to Gordon who resets the Bulls offense. Luol Deng raises up his right hand and calls out a play. Tyrus Thomas runs up to set a screen, but tries to set the screen on the wrong side of Gordon. At this point, Rose starts clapping for the ball on the right wing. Rose is the only player on the right side of the court for the Bulls. Thomas resets to the top of the key, and the Bulls go ahead with the play that Deng had called out. Thomas sets the screen on the correct side this time, and Gordon drives in off the screen. In this play, Dirk was guarding Nocioni downlow. Nocioni cuts to Rose’s side of the floor to try to pull Dirk away, giving Gordon an open look at the basket. Dirk recognizes that Gordon is driving and blocks off the basket, at which point Gordon passes it to Deng, who misses a close shot.

After the Mavericks score, the Bulls bring the ball down the court and call a timeout. Rose goes over to talk to Gordon and points at a spot on the floor, showing Gordon something. The spot that Rose pointed to at on the floor was on the side that Gordon was on. Then the camera cuts away. When the camera cuts back on to Rose, it shows Rose complaining to the coaching staff. Del Negro, Bernie Bickerstaff, and Del Harris give Rose a blank stare, probably realizing that it is just an NBA player having an ego trip moment and Rose walks away.

It seems that Rose was demanding the ball separate from a call from the coaching staff, just wanting to try to make the play himself. It appears that if anyone was being selfish in this moment, that it was Derrick Rose as Gordon was only going along with the play that the rest of the team was running. It would be pretty hard to believe that the entire team was trying to ignore a call from the coaching staff. In this instance, it appears that Rose wanted to go rogue like Sarah Palin and Gordon stayed on course running the Bulls’ play, called out by Deng.

 

[fanof19]

Come out to support the Chicago Police and Firefighters Charities on September 16th at Saint Xavier's Campus, South Side of Chicago in the Mt Greenwood Neighborhood. See your favorite Blackhawks Alumni and Chicago police and firefighters play softball for a cause!



Event begins at 1pm. Please also help spread the word around town and on facebook. Its food, fun and games for the whole family!!

 

[MassHavoc]

Pretty cool event idea. Is there a website for it that has more info?

 

[fanof19]

not sure if it's up on the alumni website yet. got the info from someone playing

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Well I live in Beverly so I'll be there.