History shows you must fix your long-term QB position via the draft..

thenewguy

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Not without $$$ to pay them.

And no, you don’t find players like Hill and Kelce growing on trees.
The Chiefs signed Hill, Kelce, and Mahomes to long term extensions, so it's not an issue. And they still are paying top dollar to players like Jones, Clark, and Mathieu. It's almost like the cap is designed to be able to support some big contracts.

Good teams are always up against and over the cap, there are a lot of ways to manage it. The link for almost every team that has sustainable success is a franchise QB and a good head coach. It's interesting to me how so many fans have become stewards of the cap and care more about it then the actual front offices of successful teams.
 

Raskolnikov

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History shows that you have to draft your way into QB success. Look no further than the Watson rumors, which at this point haven't materialized, because nobody wants to trade away a true top 10 QB talent.

Its possibly to catch a talented QB at the end of their career. The Bucs lucked into Brady this year, Rivers took Indy to a playoff game, Peyton even won one with Denver at the very end (although he wasn't very potent) but you need long term stability, not a 1 or 2 year rental, and those are for teams with an offense and a coaching system in place that invites QBs. Rule Chicago out.

The best modern examples of long term stability via free agency or trade is Drew Brees, followed by Kirk Cousins and Ryan Tannehill. You can find them but the odds are heavily against you. We are talking 3 players versus the vast majority of the league dominating with home grown talent.

I agree that trying to find a QB with the 20th pick is very difficult, but it might be easier than trying to find long term stability with a free agent or trade. Just look at the very few QBs that had any success outside of the team that drafted them... that's a short list. Free agent trash just for the sake of a new face may be exciting up until the moment we actually have to watch them play.

Buckle up boys and join the Jones/Trask train. It will probably come crashing into the station. But historically, its our best chance.
The best examples of potential MVP level QB's getting away all got their knees blown up. (Palmer/Wentz/Carr)

I know what you are saying...but its unusual for a Carson Wentz level talent to get away. I would do everything I could to facilitate that happening and almost meet their demands. We won't regret it.

I think the guy is confident in himself for a reason. Wentz was not what was wrong with the Eagles at all. Its a great story that Hurts came in and gave them a spark, competed with some tail end of season teams in shambles, but I did watch Wentz this year and I was as impressed as ever the first 4 weeks.

He took a beating for the Eagles and he took it to try and win with 1/3 of their team already in the infirmary or PUP list. The guy is a warrior at the least, but I think he brings many many good QB atributes in high quality. He knows our system and schemes. It should be a no brainer to go hard, and if McCaskey is blocking another trade the guy must be a moron if he hasn't learned the lessons of his predecessors.

That fucking family needs to stay out of Bears business and collect their checks. Your gonna pull this shit after you blocked fucking LaDanian Tomlinson? Get fucked man.

Wentz or Carr or Watson or Wilson is the only way I see us being in the playoff hunt next year.
I think very very lowly of the weapons that Wentz had the last couple years. A washed up Jeffery is the best one. A washed up Ertz got passed up by Goddert. Both never stay on the field. Their rookie started on the pup. He's a pocket passer without a line.

What the fuck does everyone expect. I would love to die on this sword surrounded by morons. Check back in two years and tell me about carson Wentz and his never ending sucktitude and how smart Pace was to avoid him and I can't wait to hear who we trotted out then.

If you all aren't ready to go back in time and give up Roquan and a first or Foles and two firsts in 3 years time...I'll post again. Enjoy your pain and suffering from the lame duck Ryan Pace regime that never got to make its own decisions fully. He's such a nice kid they gave him too much help but this is a shit show now. The Bears kept a bad joke going for too long, I'm so sick of the damn ownership idiots repeating the same mistakes decade after decade. Hope rarely shines even a single ray on us and they lack any vision to ever keep the few bright spots. They compound mistakes and are fucking TERRIBLE at free agency. They can't even fucking count to 5 to get a fucking compensatory draft pick. They can't figure out very basic and simple things as an organization. How many coaches and regimes across the league fucking laugh at us? The one up north is more than enough to piss me off. The one thing that made us good for a couple years was Vic Fangios defense and playcalling. How the fuck the Covid Bears limped on a loss into the playoffs nobody knows but it shouldn't impress anybody. The schedule gave it to us.
 

cosmodinardo

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It's also a deep QB draft with 6 guys that can sling it.

Pace is going to get a second chance at drafting a QB, and this is a pretty good draft to take a shot.

I would agree with you MattB, however the bummer is that there are also more teams than usual who are desperate and just itchin' to roll the dice on a first round QB. I honestly think that even Jones will be off the board by the time we pick.
 

cosmodinardo

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The best examples of potential MVP level QB's getting away all got their knees blown up. (Palmer/Wentz/Carr)

I know what you are saying...but its unusual for a Carson Wentz level talent to get away. I would do everything I could to facilitate that happening and almost meet their demands. We won't regret it.

I think the guy is confident in himself for a reason. Wentz was not what was wrong with the Eagles at all. Its a great story that Hurts came in and gave them a spark, competed with some tail end of season teams in shambles, but I did watch Wentz this year and I was as impressed as ever the first 4 weeks.

He took a beating for the Eagles and he took it to try and win with 1/3 of their team already in the infirmary or PUP list. The guy is a warrior at the least, but I think he brings many many good QB atributes in high quality. He knows our system and schemes. It should be a no brainer to go hard, and if McCaskey is blocking another trade the guy must be a moron if he hasn't learned the lessons of his predecessors.

That fucking family needs to stay out of Bears business and collect their checks. Your gonna pull this shit after you blocked fucking LaDanian Tomlinson? Get fucked man.

Wentz or Carr or Watson or Wilson is the only way I see us being in the playoff hunt next year.
I think very very lowly of the weapons that Wentz had the last couple years. A washed up Jeffery is the best one. A washed up Ertz got passed up by Goddert. Both never stay on the field. Their rookie started on the pup. He's a pocket passer without a line.

What the fuck does everyone expect. I would love to die on this sword surrounded by morons. Check back in two years and tell me about carson Wentz and his never ending sucktitude and how smart Pace was to avoid him and I can't wait to hear who we trotted out then.

If you all aren't ready to go back in time and give up Roquan and a first or Foles and two firsts in 3 years time...I'll post again. Enjoy your pain and suffering from the lame duck Ryan Pace regime that never got to make its own decisions fully. He's such a nice kid they gave him too much help but this is a shit show now. The Bears kept a bad joke going for too long, I'm so sick of the damn ownership idiots repeating the same mistakes decade after decade. Hope rarely shines even a single ray on us and they lack any vision to ever keep the few bright spots. They compound mistakes and are fucking TERRIBLE at free agency. They can't even fucking count to 5 to get a fucking compensatory draft pick. They can't figure out very basic and simple things as an organization. How many coaches and regimes across the league fucking laugh at us? The one up north is more than enough to piss me off. The one thing that made us good for a couple years was Vic Fangios defense and playcalling. How the fuck the Covid Bears limped on a loss into the playoffs nobody knows but it shouldn't impress anybody. The schedule gave it to us.


Palmer's career was interesting. He was awesome with the Bengals until he got hurt, then he sucked for the middle portion of his career, then was pretty damn good again with Arians and the Cardinals for a few seasons.
 

BobInIndy

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Even if the Bears draft a decent QB, I've yet to see any indication that our staff can either effectively improve his performance, or design an effective scheme for our success. Year after year, same old, same old.
 

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Brett Favre was acquired via trade. Brady has already delivered a SB ring to his new team.
Tannehill, Palmer, Brees, Moon, Gannon, Williams, Plunket. You can include guys like Warner, Cunningham, Montana and Manning if you are talking about guys that had success with their 1st teams.

That said, of course you'd like to draft your own for a few reasons but you get what you can. What's interesting about the list above is that less than 1/2 of those were early 1st round picks.
 
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nc0gnet0

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Tannehill, Palmer, Brees, Moon, Gannon, Williams, Plunket. You can include guys like Warner, Cunningham, Montana and Manning if you are talking about guys that had success with their 1st teams.

That said, of course you'd like to draft your own for a few reasons but you get what you can. What's interesting about the list above is that less than 1/2 of those were early 1st round picks.

Historically, there are 3x as many QB's taken in rounds 2-7 than there are Qb's taken in the first round. So, from a pure numbers standpoint, there should be 3x as many QB's not taken in the 1st round that won SB's.

You also fail to take into account that a good portion of the Qb's taken in the first round go to really bad teams. Cherry picking a few outliers does not make your point.
 

WindyCity

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History shows that you have to draft your way into QB success. Look no further than the Watson rumors, which at this point haven't materialized, because nobody wants to trade away a true top 10 QB talent.

Its possibly to catch a talented QB at the end of their career. The Bucs lucked into Brady this year, Rivers took Indy to a playoff game, Peyton even won one with Denver at the very end (although he wasn't very potent) but you need long term stability, not a 1 or 2 year rental, and those are for teams with an offense and a coaching system in place that invites QBs. Rule Chicago out.

The best modern examples of long term stability via free agency or trade is Drew Brees, followed by Kirk Cousins and Ryan Tannehill. You can find them but the odds are heavily against you. We are talking 3 players versus the vast majority of the league dominating with home grown talent.

I agree that trying to find a QB with the 20th pick is very difficult, but it might be easier than trying to find long term stability with a free agent or trade. Just look at the very few QBs that had any success outside of the team that drafted them... that's a short list. Free agent trash just for the sake of a new face may be exciting up until the moment we actually have to watch them play.

Buckle up boys and join the Jones/Trask train. It will probably come crashing into the station. But historically, its our best chance.

Hav you seen the Bears history?
 

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Bearly

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Historically, there are 3x as many QB's taken in rounds 2-7 than there are Qb's taken in the first round. So, from a pure numbers standpoint, there should be 3x as many QB's not taken in the 1st round that won SB's.

You also fail to take into account that a good portion of the Qb's taken in the first round go to really bad teams. Cherry picking a few outliers does not make your point.
Lear to read. I'm not, not taking anything into account and clearly stated that you should try and draft your own. Point was that it doesn't only happen with early 1st round picks, not that your better off finding one some other way than drafting. By the tenor of your post, I guess LA shouldn't have traded for Stafford. :rolleyes:
 

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Yeah but you haven't proven your argument. There are more drafted QBs who worked out because there are more teams that chose the draft to try and find out. There are also far more drafted QBs that failed for that reason as well so you are just focusing on the successes while ignoring all the failures. You would have to look at all QBs drafted vs all QBs traded or signed via FA and then compare how successful those QBs have been. What percentage of them succeeded or failed so that you can account for the differences in population size.

Until then there is anecdotal evidence you can be successful under either scenario.
I think he's proved it just fine.

Bears best chance to have a long run at the chance for the Superbowl is to draft a QB, and that they pan out. Grossman and Trubisky are the only times the Bears have done this in almost 20 years now. You're never gonna find that rookie talent if you don't try.
 

nc0gnet0

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Lear to read. I'm not, not taking anything into account and clearly stated that you should try and draft your own. Point was that it doesn't only happen with early 1st round picks, not that your better off finding one some other way than drafting. By the tenor of your post, I guess LA shouldn't have traded for Stafford. :rolleyes:

The purpose of my post, had nothing to do with whether or not your better off drafting a QB, trading for one, or acquiring one in Free agency. That is a case specific circumstance, and varies greatly from team to team and year to year.

Nor did my post have absolutely anything to do with the Rams, or Stafford, for that matter. Grow up and stop trying making every argument you have with me about the Lions.

As for lear (?) ing to read, I can read just fine, thank you. Here is what you said.

What's interesting about the list above is that less than 1/2 of those were early 1st round picks.

But it's not interesting at all. Yet is a point that is brought up on this board over and over and over again, in one of many different iterations. When you take into account that the possibly 12-16 QB's might be taken in the draft in one year, and only 2-4 of those are taken in the "early 1st rounds", your faced with sometimes 6x as many QB's taken in the later picks.

Anybody with an analytic background will take what you, (and others for that matter) are offering up as proof you don't need to draft a Qb high in the draft and laugh. Because, while true on the surface, it doesn't take into account the superior success rate of the QB's taken early in the first round vs those taken later.

So, if your a GM, would you rather take a QB in the early first round in which history shows us has a 30-50% chance of success (depending on how you wish to define success), or a Qb later that has a 5-15% chance of success? So unless you plan on drafting 3-6 of these later round Qb's the answer is quite obvious.
 

Sculpt

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...
I agree that trying to find a QB with the 20th pick is very difficult, but it might be easier than trying to find long term stability with a free agent or trade. ...
Free agent trash just for the sake of a new face may be exciting up until the moment we actually have to watch them play.

...
I agree with you that the primary place to look for your franchise QB is in the draft. And in the top half of the 1st round if possible.

If not possible, then really take a long look at what you can get with your 20th pick. But don't way overreach.

Always agree with drafting the most important position in football every year until you have a franchise QB, and then at least every other year.
 
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Bearly

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The purpose of my post, had nothing to do with whether or not your better off drafting a QB, trading for one, or acquiring one in Free agency. That is a case specific circumstance, and varies greatly from team to team and year to year.

Nor did my post have absolutely anything to do with the Rams, or Stafford, for that matter. Grow up and stop trying making every argument you have with me about the Lions.

As for lear (?) ing to read, I can read just fine, thank you. Here is what you said.

What's interesting about the list above is that less than 1/2 of those were early 1st round picks.

But it's not interesting at all. Yet is a point that is brought up on this board over and over and over again, in one of many different iterations. When you take into account that the possibly 12-16 QB's might be taken in the draft in one year, and only 2-4 of those are taken in the "early 1st rounds", your faced with sometimes 6x as many QB's taken in the later picks.

Anybody with an analytic background will take what you, (and others for that matter) are offering up as proof you don't need to draft a Qb high in the draft and laugh. Because, while true on the surface, it doesn't take into account the superior success rate of the QB's taken early in the first round vs those taken later.

So, if your a GM, would you rather take a QB in the early first round in which history shows us has a 30-50% chance of success (depending on how you wish to define success), or a Qb later that has a 5-15% chance of success? So unless you plan on drafting 3-6 of these later round Qb's the answer is quite obvious.
It wasn't about you. I was simply reinforcing Remi's notion that the draft is not the only way to get QB production and you ran with it.
 

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