Hossa vs. Havlat

[Everyday I'm Byfuglien]

First off, this isn't a thread complaining about anything. Think of it as an escape from trade rumors.

I saw Hossa was questionable for the game against the Stars tonight and that made me wonder- what are his numbers vs. Marty Havlat's since the 09/10 season.

Here's how the two match up: from the start of the 2009/2010 season to today.

95 games played

36 goals
44 assists
80 points

.842 points per game at 15.8 million dollars in salary for the two seasons

+/- rating of +31

126 games played

33 goals
67 assists
100 points

.793 points per game at 9 million dollars in salary for the two seasons

+/- rating of -20

_________________________


You can add an extra 22 games to Hossa's stat sheet for last seasons playoffs (3 goals, 12 assists, +7). Also, Hossa is on the books for 12 years while Havlat is signed for 6. Hossa's cap hit is $5,275,000 while Havlat's is $5,000,000.

Thoughts?

(sorry, I currently have nothing better to do and was interested in this)

 

[tbo41fan]

I still think Hossa is playing hurt...there is no other explanation for him having such a bad year....I think he will bounce back


Also, Hossa is a MUCH better defender than havlat and that makes him so much more valuable

 

[Everyday I'm Byfuglien]

I still think Hossa is playing hurt

THAT was the main reason for me looking into these stats. When they went with Hossa over Havlat, I think durability definitely played into that decision (how much it factored in can be debated).

Also, Hossa is a MUCH better defender than havlat

Agreed. That's something that's easy to see watching the two guys play and it shows up in the +/- column.

 

[tbo41fan]

Exactly...

Im guessing that you created this because of Hossa's struggles, but I think we just need to relax a little. Guy has proven in the past that he can be an elite player, and eventually that will come back to him IMO.

I think the biggest reason this keeps coming up is because of how much he makes, but again, you have to pay for the best (even though he isnt playing like the best right now )

 

[DewsSox79]

Really this thread?

Hossa>Havlat

one of the best 2 way forwards in the game.

we talk about hossa being hurt, havlat when he was here for many years was made out of glass.

il take this deal all day long over havlat. anyone who disagrees probably should find a new sport to watch.

 

[tbo41fan]

^ calm down there killer

 

[DewsSox79]

^ calm down there killer

no, because comparing the two is stupid.

there are many aspects of hossas game that does not get put specifically in a stat line. havlat is one dimensional. period.

 

[Everyday I'm Byfuglien]

Exactly...
Im guessing that you created this because of Hossa's struggles

Not because of his struggles in producing points (he's fantastic... I know he can score), but his apparent struggle staying on the ice.

I remember the Havlat contract talk and a lot of it centered around him being fragile and not worth risking a large contract on. I was sad to see Marty go, but going with Hossa totally made sense.

I just wanted to see if that was still the case. Clearly things aren't over yet.

 

[Everyday I'm Byfuglien]

no, because comparing the two is stupid.

No it's not.

Hossa clearly replaced Havlat on the team.

 

[tbo41fan]

Not because of his struggles in producing points (he's fantastic... I know he can score), but his apparent struggle staying on the ice.

I remember the Havlat contract talk and a lot of it centered around him being fragile and not worth risking a large contract on. I was sad to see Marty go, but going with Hossa totally made sense.

I just wanted to see if that was still the case. Clearly things aren't over yet.

Thats the key...

Plus we have to look and see that in Hossa's first year of that huge contract Lord Stanley left his cup in Chicago

 

[Everyday I'm Byfuglien]

Thats the key...

Plus we have to look and see that in Hossa's first year of that huge contract Lord Stanley left his cup in Chicago

And then you have the fun of trying to compare playing and producing points on the 09/10 Minnesota Wild vs. playing and producing on the 09/10 Blackhawks.

HUGE differences in the way Hockey is played on those teams.

I think it's interesting is all.

 

[DewsSox79]

No it's not.

Hossa clearly replaced Havlat on the team.

replaced? yes.

better replacement? yes.......that is the ansewer.

you are comparing apples and oranges

 

[tbo41fan]

And then you have the fun of trying to compare playing and producing points on the 09/10 Minnesota Wild vs. playing and producing on the 09/10 Blackhawks.

HUGE differences in the way Hockey is played on those teams.

I think it's interesting is all.

No, i agree with you...like you said, Hossa did essentially replace him.

But IMO, it's not close...I would take Hossa ALL DAY

 

[DewsSox79]

No, i agree with you...like you said, Hossa did essentially replace him.

But IMO, it's not close...I would take Hossa ALL DAY

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VTlNwuMlYM]YouTube - ‪Price Is Right Host Calls Contestant ***‬‏[/ame]

 

[Everyday I'm Byfuglien]

you are comparing apples and oranges

Two highly paid European right wingers in the NHL are apples and oranges? I'm not sure you understand the term "apples and oranges".

They're both apples. This thread is comparing granny smiths and golden delicious'.

 

[DewsSox79]

Two highly paid European right wingers in the NHL are apples and oranges? I'm not sure you understand the term "apples and oranges".

They're both apples. This thread is comparing granny smiths and golden delicious'.

Right so we compare players based on location and posistion now? ok. Lets even make more of "apples to apples" and lets compare two guys from the same exact country and at the same position, Holmstrom vs Daniel Sedin.....Now doesnt that sound stupid? I like what your definition of apples to apples is. Location and position. NICE!

How about we compare actual player value Apples to Apples, because when we do that with hossa and havlat, it is apples to oranges....of course minus your philosophy on location.

and tblow thanked him. wow.

 

[Everyday I'm Byfuglien]

Right so we compare players based on location and posistion now? ok. Lets even make more of "apples to apples" and lets compare two guys from the same exact country and at the same position, Holmstrom vs Daniel Sedin.....Now doesnt that sound stupid? I like what your definition of apples to apples is. Location and position. NICE!

How about we compare actual player value Apples to Apples, because when we do that with hossa and havlat, it is apples to oranges....of course minus your philosophy on location.

and tblow thanked him. wow.

No really... you don't know what the saying "apples and oranges" means.

It's ok though.

 

[Captain Iago]

I'm not really sure why this thread was started. Is there an argument here to be made that the Hawks signed the wrong guy? I don't think so, but I'll play a little.

Ok, so these two, whether it's fair or not, will always be connected in terms of Hawk talk. Lets look back at the numbers we pretty much all agree mattered when the team made the decision. I'll use Havlat's existence since he's a couple of years younger.

Havlat-

05/06 Sens - 18 gp
06/07 Hawks - 56gp
07/08 Hawks - 35 gp
08/09 Hawks -82 gp

Hossa-
05/06 Thrash 80 gp
06/07 Thrash 82 gp
07/08 Thrash/Pens 82 gp
08/09 Wings 79gp

Was Havlat worth a 5+ contract having only one full healthy season? Could Havlat be a contract year player? Would you pay an extra half a mil or so more in cap space to sign a different guy who has not only a far superior offensive side, but also a remarkably better defensive sense still in his prime?

Now, the most important question - Do we win the cup with Havlat?

Oh, and that sure is an interesting picture you chose for Havlat. :lol:

 

[DewsSox79]

No really... you don't know what the saying "apples and oranges" means.

It's ok though.

that is your rebuttle?

you are cherry picking what you want to use to compare players and making false statements that it is apples to apples because of location, and position.

way to overlook the players value comparison.....again apples to oranges

stop the non sense.

 

[Everyday I'm Byfuglien]

I'm not really sure why this thread was started.

Ok, so these two, whether it's fair or not, will always be connected in terms of Hawk talk.

You answered your own question as far as I'm concerned.

Despite DewsSox swearing that you absolutely can't compare these two guys, I wanted to look at their numbers to see how they've both panned out under their current contracts. I'm pretty positive that the Blackhawks compared them when considering who to sign.

Havlat-

05/06 Sens - 18 gp
06/07 Hawks - 56gp
07/08 Hawks - 35 gp
08/09 Hawks -82 gp

Hossa-
05/06 Thrash 80 gp
06/07 Thrash 82 gp
07/08 Thrash/Pens 82 gp
08/09 Wings 79gp

Continue those numbers through the next season and a half and someone could say that maybe Havlat has gotten over his streak of injuries and matured physically while all of Hossa's hard play has finally caught up to him and he's on the decline. Like I've said... I think it's interesting. Certainly more so than trade rumors.