if we strike out on bosh,

[Shakes]

I don't think anyone wants to play guys out of position, but if we can't find a suitable trade for Deng, then we have to do what we can to get our best team with what we have. That's going to involve LeBron and Deng playing together for extended periods, whether as a 2/3 or 3/4 combo.

I agree it's not ideal, but trading Deng for equal talent that's a better fit isn't exactly going to be simple. If we get LeBron other teams are going to know we're desperate to move Deng, they'll know they can low ball us.

 

[TheStig]

I don't really care. We aren't playing the best player in the league out of postion so that Deng can play. I don't care if you lose out on talent, you trade him for whatever you can get that fits. Deng also has no chance of playing extended minutes at the 2 or 4. If Bron comes here, Deng is done. JJ is our backup sf of the future.

 

[Shakes]

LeBron playing some minutes at PF isn't out of position, he's done that pretty consistently in Cleveland. And Deng played PF some minutes this year, Rose-Hinrich-Salmons-Deng-Noah/Miller were lineups we used semi-regularly. So it's not like either guy is a SF and never anything else.

I don't think either LeBron or Deng are ideal at the 2, so I wouldn't rely on that often, but as a 3/4 combo it would be something we could do.

obviously we'd try to trade Deng, but as a fall back option I think we could roll with it. I guess it depends on how far you're willing to downgrade for "fit", would you downgrade to a Glen Davis level player if that's what we could get? I wouldn't, I'd prefer to try to make Deng into a Marion style PF.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes, both of them played under 10% of their teams pf minutes. Thats like 4mpg each. Thats not a rotational player, Hunter averaged more mpg a game then those two combined at PF.

Yes, I would trade Deng for Davis happily. It clears about 40 million in cap room over the next 4yrs. I wouldn't even want Marion really, he is a bit too small, I'd go for Troy Murphy if I could. He'd be a realistic and nice fit.

 

[pinkizdead]

you know, i think i'dbe happier with deng than murphy.

 

[TheStig]

pinkizdead wrote:

you know, i think i'dbe happier with deng than murphy.

You sir are a fool. I'd happily take a 15 and 10 big who can shoot threes with only one year left on his deal vs a sf who can't shoot threes and has 4 more years on his deal.

 

[pinkizdead]

deng isn't really too far off in terms of rebounding/pts. really murphy's ability to shoot a 3 isn't amazing. he can rebound, but not much else. Really the only value i see in a guy like murphy is his contract.

 

[TheStig]

Murphy beat Deng in ever statistical category besides points and blocks despite play 5pg less and taking 3 less shots a game. Murphy's per is almost 2 whole points higher and he would the best 3pt shooter on this team.

Not sure how much better of a 3pt shooter you want him to be. He was the 4th best big in 3pt% behnd Fyre, Lewis and Bonner. He would be a fine addition if we couldn't get Bosh to go with Bron.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Shakes, both of them played under 10% of their teams pf minutes. Thats like 4mpg each. Thats not a rotational player, Hunter averaged more mpg a game then those two combined at PF.

LeBron played fewer minutes this year at PF because of the Shaq trade loaded up the Cavs with bigs, he was playing about 10 MPG there the previous two years.

Yes, I would trade Deng for Davis happily. It clears about 40 million in cap room over the next 4yrs. I wouldn't even want Marion really, he is a bit too small, I'd go for Troy Murphy if I could. He'd be a realistic and nice fit.

Well obviously I meant Davis level production, not contract, because there's no way to make that work under the cap. What I'm getting at is whether you think trading a guy who is a starter level talent for a guy who is a 20 MPG big is worth it for reasons of fit (ignoring contracts, I assume we're salary matching here).

Obviously I'd take Troy Murphy if we could get him, but he's the rare combination of a big expiring contract that is also a productive player, so I doubt we can swap Deng for him.

 

[Shakes]

Actually looking at rosters around the league it's pretty hard to come up with a deal for Deng that I think helps the team and the other team would do. I mean the team has to be in need of a SF, looking to win in the near future, have a big contract to salary match, and not be broke so they're willing to take on long term salary like Deng.

Pretty slim pickings, the best ideas I can find are Kirilenko (to play at PF) or Jefferson (to play at SG), although I'm not sure either team wants to take on Deng's salary in return for their expiring contracts like that.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

LeBron played fewer minutes this year at PF because of the Shaq trade loaded up the Cavs with bigs, he was playing about 10 MPG there the previous two years.

Shaq was out the last 25+ games and yet Bron still didn't play more PF. It's a dumb idea unless your trying to play fast.

Well obviously I meant Davis level production, not contract, because there's no way to make that work under the cap. What I'm getting at is whether you think trading a guy who is a starter level talent for a guy who is a 20 MPG big is worth it for reasons of fit (ignoring contracts, I assume we're salary matching here).

Obviously I'd take Troy Murphy if we could get him, but he's the rare combination of a big expiring contract that is also a productive player, so I doubt we can swap Deng for him.

Obviously no one is gonna trade Deng for a 20mpg guy on the same bad deal. But why can't we trade him for a similar player on a similar deal? Why do we have to get much worse? Can't we get moderately worse?

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

Actually looking at rosters around the league it's pretty hard to come up with a deal for Deng that I think helps the team and the other team would do. I mean the team has to be in need of a SF, looking to win in the near future, have a big contract to salary match, and not be broke so they're willing to take on long term salary like Deng.

Pretty slim pickings, the best ideas I can find are Kirilenko (to play at PF) or Jefferson (to play at SG), although I'm not sure either team wants to take on Deng's salary in return for their expiring contracts like that.

Why would Deng have to go to a contender? He is still young, why can't we trade him to Minnesota for cap space or toronto as part of a s&t (supposedly they have a deal in place for hedo)? I don't see the contender only line being applicable.

 

[Shakes]

I don't see why a team like Minny would want him. Guys outside their rookie contracts are usually the players you try to shed, not pick up, when you're a non-playoff team.

Plus with the way Minny is losing money I doubt they'd take on big salaries. If they're the rumoured Hedo taker then I think Toronto is just talking crap to try to make the Knicks nervous.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Obviously no one is gonna trade Deng for a 20mpg guy on the same bad deal. But why can't we trade him for a similar player on a similar deal? Why do we have to get much worse? Can't we get moderately worse?

You can't normally trade wings for bigs and keep the same level of talent. Maybe we can get a SG for Deng though. Skiles is a Deng fan, maybe swap him for Redd is a possibility? Although again, Redd is an expiring and the Bucks may feel they can do better.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

I don't see why a team like Minny would want him. Guys outside their rookie contracts are usually the players you try to shed, not pick up, when you're a non-playoff team.

Plus with the way Minny is losing money I doubt they'd take on big salaries. If they're the rumoured Hedo taker then I think Toronto is just talking crap to try to make the Knicks nervous.

Minny has over 27 million coming off the books, they could stomach Deng and still cut payroll signifigantly. So finances won't stop Minny from getting Deng. Furthermore, to have some success to make some money. Not to mention Minny already has 3 non rookie deals on the book for next year.

I don't know who is taking Hedo but I doubt its Minnesota.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Obviously no one is gonna trade Deng for a 20mpg guy on the same bad deal. But why can't we trade him for a similar player on a similar deal? Why do we have to get much worse? Can't we get moderately worse?

You can't normally trade wings for bigs and keep the same level of talent. Maybe we can get a SG for Deng though. Skiles is a Deng fan, maybe swap him for Redd is a possibility? Although again, Redd is an expiring and the Bucks may feel they can do better.

And normally decent wings aren't traded for scrubs either. There is a middle ground.

 

[Shakes]

Well normally if you get an upgrade at a position and you're trying to trade a guy with a lot of years and dollars left on his contract (ie you're a desperate seller) you're lucky if you can get an expiring.

I just don't see a lot of PFs around that we could get for Deng that aren't significant downgrades in talent. If we get LeBron teams aren't exactly going to be lining up to help us improve.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

Well normally if you get an upgrade at a position and you're trying to trade a guy with a lot of years and dollars left on his contract (ie you're a desperate seller) you're lucky if you can get an expiring.

I just don't see a lot of PFs around that we could get for Deng that aren't significant downgrades in talent. If we get LeBron teams aren't exactly going to be lining up to help us improve.

Again, we don't have to trade him for anything. If Minny wants him, we can trade him and sign a second max guy or acquire another player via trade for the new cap space.

 

[Shakes]

Well obviously if we could open up 2x max cap space we'd have to do it, but I just don't see it as likely. If Minny would take Deng off our hands I'd gladly give them the rights to this year's pick + the Bobcats pick + a future first.

 

[TheStig]

I don't see it as that unlikely. Minny isn't getting any big fas. Would they rather over pay *** at least 5/70 to get him or take Deng's 4/42 with 30% deferment?