Im not afraid to ask

[Rory Sparrow]

I take those stats with a grain of salt as well hence why I am not proclaiming Gibson as definitively the greatest hitter ever.

So if you take all stats "with a grain of salt" equally, isn't that the same as taking no stats "with a grain of salt"? LOL at anyone who would proclaim Gibson as definitively the greatest hitter ever...that would be moronic even by the remyvortex standards.

 

[remydat]

So if you take all stats "with a grain of salt" equally, isn't that the same as taking no stats "with a grain of salt"? LOL at anyone who would proclaim Gibson as definitively the greatest hitter ever...that would be moronic even by the remyvortex standards.

I found it remarkable the dude played so well coming out of a coma but you seem more focused on picking a fight. So let me ask simply. What are you thoughts on Josh Gibson or is your only contribution here simply to take what I said out of context?

 

[Rory Sparrow]

I found it remarkable the dude played so well coming out of a coma but you seem more focused on picking a fight. So let me ask simply. What are you thoughts on Josh Gibson or is your only contribution here simply to take what I said out of context?

Trying to keep the talk focused, i.e. "best hitter of all time". Throwing Josh Gibson's name into the mix is just your usual remyvortex hipster nonsense of trying to be the smartest person in the room. I would HOPE that a discussion about "greatest ever" wouldn't be about hypotheticals...that at some point an actual achievement could be cited. Josh Gibson...interesting story, was apparently in a coma, 183 plate appearances one year....better than Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds. Gotcha.

Hank Gathers...greatest NBA player of all time.

 

[remydat]

Right the HoF recognizes him as one of the greatest hitters in the game but you think it is just me being a hipster. Alright then.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

1. Phelps
2. Bolt
3. Brady
4. Williams
5. Jordan

That'd be my top 5 GOAT athletes. Expand it to 10 and you throw in LeBron, Bo Jackson, Gretzky, and a couple others. Pretty crazy to think about how many great athletes there have been. If you make a list of 100 you'd still be leaving off world famous athletes.

How could YOU forget Lance Briggs??

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Right the HoF recognizes him as one of the greatest hitters in the game but you think it is just me being a hipster. Alright then.

Don't know the first thing about baseball. Where does the HOF recognize him as one of the greatest hitters? Is he enshrined or immortalized in the company of Babe, Hank Aaron in Cooperstown?

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Right the HoF recognizes him as one of the greatest hitters in the game but you think it is just me being a hipster. Alright then.

Right. Harold Baines is in the HOF, too. Would it make sense to proclaim Baines as definitively the greatest hitter ever?

As usual, you completely glossed over my point regarding Gibson, which is if you are going to proclaim Gibson the greatest hitter ever, your argument is completely based in hypotheticals. You shouldn't have to do that when discussing the "best ever" at something...at some point an actual achievement or accomplishment should be cited.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Don't know the first thing about baseball. Where does the HOF recognize him as one of the greatest hitters? Is he enshrined or immortalized in the company of Babe, Hank Aaron in Cooperstown?

Josh Gibson never won a Negro League title without Satchel Paige, tho

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Right. Harold Baines is in the HOF, too. Would it make sense to proclaim Baines as definitively the greatest hitter ever?

As usual, you completely glossed over my point regarding Gibson, which is if you are going to proclaim Gibson the greatest hitter ever, your argument is completely based in hypotheticals. You shouldn't have to do that when discussing the "best ever" at something...at some point an actual achievement or accomplishment should be cited.

Ah I see. It's like Gale Sayers is the best RB ever simply because he was great when he played and is in the HOF AND if he played as long as E. Smith, Payton, Dickerson, Sanders etc he would have blown them away therefore Sayers is greatest.

Am I interpreting this line of reasoning correctly? Or is the analogy flawed in some way?

 

[playthrough2001]

Greatest hitter ever has to be Hank Aaron... The man hit 755 home runs and would still have 3,000 hits if he you didn't count them. Lifetime .305... Most RBIs and Total Bases in history and no steroids...

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Greatest hitter ever has to be Hank Aaron... The man hit 755 home runs and would still have 3,000 hits if he you didn't count them. Lifetime .305... Most RBIs and Total Bases in history and no steroids...

That's too mainstream. Gotta go deeper level thinking, man.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Ah I see. It's like Gale Sayers is the best RB ever simply because he was great when he played and is in the HOF AND if he played as long as E. Smith, Payton, Sanders etc he would have blown them away therefore Sayers is greatest.

Am I interpreting this line of reasoning correctly? Or is the analogy flawed in some way?

That's right. But with Sayers, we actually had a few seasons of what he did in the NFL. And even then, you have to rely on a hypothetical scenario. Remy's 'argument' with Gibson is even more flimsy, as Gibson never played in the MLB. Even if remy dismisses Babe Ruth's lily-white accomplishments, can you really say that Gibson was better than someone like Hank Aaron?

 

[playthrough2001]

That's too mainstream. Gotta go deeper level thinking, man.

Ichiro if you combine Japan and MLB...

Nah! It's still Hammerin' Hank.

 

[remydat]

Don't know the first thing about baseball. Where does the HOF recognize him as one of the greatest hitters? Is he enshrined or immortalized in the company of Babe, Hank Aaron in Cooperstown?

Was the myth larger than the reality? Not really.

But the applause Josh Gibson received should have been louder. He was considered the best power hitter of his era in the Negro baseball leagues and perhaps even the majors.

Gibson was born in Buena Vista, Ga. His father, Mark Gibson, moved his family to Pittsburgh in 1923 rather than try and continue to nurse a crop from his meager farm.

Josh’s education ended after the ninth grade. His introduction to organized baseball came at age 16 when he joined the Gimbels A.C. In 1929, the Crawford Colored Giants, a semi-pro team in Pittsburgh, convinced him to leave the Gimbels and join their squad.

He became a professional by accident July 25, 1930 while sitting in the stands. When Homestead Grays catcher Buck Ewing injured his hand, Gibson was invited to replace him because his titanic home runs were already well known in Pittsburgh.

“If someone had told me Josh hit the ball a mile, I would have believed them,” said Sam Jethroe, who starred for the Cleveland Buckeyes.

His legendary feats with the Homestead Grays have many experts regarding Gibson as the sport’s greatest home run hitter. Negro leagues statistics of the time are largely incomplete. But the legend of Gibson’s power has always been larger than life.

The 6-1, 215-pound Gibson was nearly indestructible behind the plate. He occasionally played left field or third base, but never for more than a game or two.

Gibson’s natural skills were immense. His powerful arm, quick release and agility made base runners wary of trying to steal.

But hitting is what made Gibson the second-highest paid player in black baseball behind Satchel Paige, another future Hall of Famer.

The Sporting News, baseball’s written authority for decades, credited Gibson in 1967 with hitting a 580-foot home run in Yankee Stadium. The ball landed two feet from the top of the bleacher wall.

“Josh was a better power hitter than Babe Ruth, Ted Williams or anybody else I’ve ever seen,” said former Cleveland Buckeye pitcher and manager Alonzo Boone. “Anything he touched was hit hard. He could power outside pitches to right field. Shortstops would move to left field when Josh came to the plate.”

In 1972, Gibson became the second player from the Negro leagues elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame, joining Paige.

Paige may have put it best when describing Josh at the plate: “You look for his weakness and while your lookin’ for it, he’s liable to hit 45 home runs.”


https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/gibson-josh

 

[modo]

I've decided not to subject myself to the previous pages of this thread....

Is Remy not taking into consideration Baseball era and only going on raw numbers?

 

[bearmick]

The fact that they did it all in the salary cap/FA era of league parity makes it far more impressive still, which is why I consider Belichick to be the GOAT over Lombardi or anyone else.

 

[remydat]

Right. Harold Baines is in the HOF, too. Would it make sense to proclaim Baines as definitively the greatest hitter ever?

As usual, you completely glossed over my point regarding Gibson, which is if you are going to proclaim Gibson the greatest hitter ever, your argument is completely based in hypotheticals. You shouldn't have to do that when discussing the "best ever" at something...at some point an actual achievement or accomplishment should be cited.

See above. Harold Baines doesn't have the same write up of Josh Gibson and it is not even close. And your point is dumb. We are comparing Football, Baseball and Basketball so it is a fairly hypothetical and subjective debate. Always was.

That's right. But with Sayers, we actually had a few seasons of what he did in the NFL. And even then, you have to rely on a hypothetical scenario. Remy's 'argument' with Gibson is even more flimsy, as Gibson never played in the MLB. Even if remy dismisses Babe Ruth's lily-white accomplishments, can you really say that Gibson was better than someone like Hank Aaron?

No this is a pretty dumb statement. Baseball people at the time considered Gibson one of the greatest hitters so it has nothing to do with me. People who watched the Major Leagues and the Negro Leagues have made the argument for Gibson. Lary Doby who broke the color barrier in the AL said Gibson was hands down better than Jackie Robinson. Bill Veeck said Gibson was worth two Yogi Berras. There were debates over whether Gibson was the Black Babe Ruth or whether Ruth was the Black Josh Gibson.

These things are part of the historical record. So while there is more subjectivity here because Gibson was robbed of a chance to play in MLB due to racism, there is more than enough anecdotes for him to be in the discussion. This whole greatest discussion is an exercise in hypotheticals and subjectivity.

 

[remydat]

I've decided not to subject myself to the previous pages of this thread....

Is Remy not taking into consideration Baseball era and only going on raw numbers?

No it is the reverse. I am not going off of raw numbers, Rory is.

 

[E.F.Hutton]

First of all I would like to thank everyone for allowing me to be a small part of this awesome thread. Now let me just throw this out there - Tiger Woods.

 

[remydat]

First of all I would like to thank everyone for allowing me to be a small part of this awesome thread. Now let me just throw this out there - Tiger Woods.

Obviously one of the greatest golfers ever but I question his mental toughness. I personally wouldn't put him up there until he can prove he can win a major post all the drama.