Inadvertant whistle

[TopekaRoy]

The ref that blew the whistle when Derrick Rose was fouled and then said "Oops, I accidentally blew the whistle. there was no foul" reviewed the tape, according to 670 The Score, and now says, "I made a mistake. It actually was a foul." So the ref thought he made a mistake when he was right, and later realized he was wrong when he thought he was wrong. The Bulls, who had possession when the inadvertent whistle was blown, should have maintained possession, but, for some reason, the refs decided it would be a jump ball.

Later, the official stat sheet said that the Bulls had one more time out, so Thibs called a time out and was hit with a technical foul. I haven't believed in the conspiracy theories this post season, and I don't think the Bulls deserved to win tonight, but I believe in them now. How else do you explain those two (actually three) bad calls?

 

[Crystallas]

They're just excuses. We know at this point in the current NBA, with the current system of calling a 'fair game', that refs admitting to a mistake(whether you agree or not) is going to benefit the Bulls in game 5. It becomes that invisible retaliation style of refereeing that we have come to love(sarcasm) over the years.

Right now, just swallow it, the calls wont change who won game 4. We have identified real flaws with this team over and over again because of these challenges, therefore it will better prepare us in the future. Atlanta played their best basketball for 10 minutes in game 4 to win, and we simply were caught off guard.

Make no mistake, Game 5 will be damn good basketball for Bulls fans. Rock and fucking roll.

 

[Lex L.]

LOL. Some so called Bulls fans have already become apologists by saying this wasnt a foul. I guess they have egg on their faces too.

 

[MidwayMobster]

Even though we cant undo any bad calls. The NBA should fine and suspend the refs for one game on missed calls late in games. I'm not saying the Bulls would've won, but down 3 instead of 8pts gave them a chance to steal this game late.

 

[Gravis]

Even though we cant undo any bad calls. The NBA should fine and suspend the refs for one game on missed calls late in games. I'm not saying the Bulls would've won, but down 3 instead of 8pts gave them a chance to steal this game late.

That might not be half a bad idea. I mean if a ref calls a terrible game or possibly proves a bias in his officiating, then like players refs should be suspended with no pay; maybe an inside investigation too? Currently, pretty much jack shit happens to refs who consistently make bad calls. They need to be held to a higher standard so that they'll be inclined to at least reeducate themselves on NBA rulings.

Don't get me wrong, like others have said nothing can be done about yesterday's game; but this constantly low-quality officiating (not just in the NBA either) is turning this shit into a circus. Though on the other hand, sports channels and even sites have already become overrun with ass-clowns (current company excluded ).

 

[Angel]

I don't think there's any conspiracy. Imo its just plain old incompetency. That was an obvious foul on Rose 3pt shot. Not sure why he changed his mind on that call. There's absolutely no excuse for the timeout screwup. I too believe refs need to be held accountable for these big screwups. They just can't be allowed to mess up this bad without any consequences or they'll just keep happening

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

LOL. Some so called Bulls fans have already become apologists by saying this wasnt a foul. I guess they have egg on their faces too.

Yeah because if the team gets outplayed and we call them out on it, we're not Bulls' fans. That makes perfect sense. You said yourself that you think this series might be over and it's 2-2. I smell a hypocrite.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The inadvertent whistle was a terrible call but at least the Bulls got a jump ball out of it. Then they blew that possession.

Korver also took a clear charge and that was a no-call, too.

By the time the timeout situation occurred, the game was already over. There is no conspiracy in ATL's favor... let's not be ridiculous.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-Dnd5D9bw]YouTube - 2011 NBA Playoffs: Atlanta Hawks vs. Chicago Bulls [ROUND 2; GAME 4] 05/08/2011[/ame] After watching it again, multiple times, I can see why people are saying it was a foul. But from the angle it shows, it doesn't look like it was a terrible no-call. Crawford avoided nearly all of the contact and Rose was fading away from the contact. But obviously the whistle was blown and it should have meant 3 free throws and not a jump ball... The fact that the Bulls got a jump ball out of it with Noah was a good chance for them to get the ball back but instead Smith won the tip. And that Korver play was obviously a charge that should have been 2 less points from the Hawks. But the fact is that is was a 12 point loss. There were disputed calls earlier in the game which the Bulls got the benefit of the doubt too (and the "inadvertent whistle" was definitely was a disputed play and not a clear/no-question foul. This wasn't exactly Game 6 of the 2002 WCF here). The fact that Rose was shying away from the contact would have been enough for me to not call a foul on that possession because there was little to no contact otherwise. The fact that the ref blew the whistle means he should have followed through and given the Bulls' 3 free-throws, but it didn't happen. The Hawks rightfully won the game and it wouldnt be good sportsmanship to say anything different. Now they need to do it in Chicago.

 

[TopekaRoy]

It looks like Salvatore "saw a foul coming" and blew the whistle prematurely, anticipating contact. Seeing that both players tried to avoid contact, he wanted to get the call "right" and declared an inadvertent whistle. But there was contact and Rose should have gotten 3 free throws. Refs often blow the whistle early, anticipating a foul and it leads to bad calls. In most cases, they stand by their mistake and assess the foul on the guy they thought was going to make contact.

They could have still gotten the call correct by looking at the replay and giving Rose his well deserved free throws. They didn't.

I guess the rule is that after an inadvertent whistle, the ball is put back in play with a jump ball. This is a bad rule that unfairly penalizes the team who had possession. The Bulls should have been given the ball out of bounds but that's not the rule. That one bad call cost the Bulls 5 points, and momentum that they were unable to regain. It is not the reason they lost, but it could be the reason they were unable to come back and win.

I don't believe Salvatore intentionally tried to screw over the Bulls. I do believe he made a huge, possibly game changing mistake and he admits to doing so.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Nothing we can do about it now except to go out and beat them in game 5.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

It looks like Salvatore "saw a foul coming" and blew the whistle prematurely, anticipating contact. Seeing that both players tried to avoid contact, he wanted to get the call "right" and declared an inadvertent whistle. But there was contact and Rose should have gotten 3 free throws. Refs often blow the whistle early, anticipating a foul and it leads to bad calls. In most cases, they stand by their mistake and assess the foul on the guy they thought was going to make contact.

They could have still gotten the call correct by looking at the replay and giving Rose his well deserved free throws. They didn't.

I guess the rule is that after an inadvertent whistle, the ball is put back in play with a jump ball. This is a bad rule that unfairly penalizes the team who had possession. The Bulls should have been given the ball out of bounds but that's not the rule. That one bad call cost the Bulls 5 points, and momentum that they were unable to regain. It is not the reason they lost, but it could be the reason they were unable to come back and win.

I don't believe Salvatore intentionally tried to screw over the Bulls. I do believe he made a huge, possibly game changing mistake and he admits to doing so.

I agree. It is a bad rule that a jumpball should ensue. That aspect possibly screwed the Bulls because Noah looked prime to get the rebound of that miss. There was a missed opportunity to capitalize on the jumpball but, hey, it didn't happen. And that one was on the Bulls. I still say that Korver non-call was much more obvious of a blown no-call than the Crawford foul on Rose but oh well.

Once the whistle blew, there was only one right call to make- sending Rose to the line for 3 free throws.

But I would have a hard time giving Rose that call too if I was the ref. There WAS some contact... I grant you that. But not every shot with contact warrants a foul in the NBA. It is actually pretty subjective.

Here what that play really was:

Rose stops his dribble well outside the 3-pt line at a tough shooting angle.

Rose has Crawford right on top of him to contest the shot.

Then, Rose pump fakes.

Rose has fades back to avoid the contact in order to have any chance of getting the ball to have a chance (as seldom as it was) to go in - while Crawford looks to avoid contact as well.

As Crawford lands, it looks as though as avoids the brunt of the contact. There was some but it seemed largely incidental and body-to-body.

The rule to the letter of the law, it would be a foul. But so would A LOT of other plays in a typical NBA games would be fouls then too that aren't called.

The reason I say that it's not a foul I would necessarily call is because it would be a bailout call. It was a bad, low-percentage shot taken by Rose...

You better believe there would have been some beef with Hawks' fans saying that the officials were just trying to get the Bulls back in the game (down by 6 with 3:00 or so left) if they were to have called that foul.

But the guy blew the whistle... at that point... you should not be able to take it back.

 

[TopekaRoy]

But the guy blew the whistle... at that point... you should not be able to take it back.

Amen to that!

Looking at the replay in your highlight video it does appear to me that there was enough contact to push Rose back (even though he was already moving in that direction) and alter his shot. You mention Letter-of-the-law and it's hard to fault an official for making the legally correct call, even though there are times when a no-call seems to be more appropriate. It's exactly that subjectivity that leads to "mistakes" and bad, or in some cases, biased calls. It was Savatore's opinion that it was a foul but it "shouldn't" have been a foul that led to him second guessing himself and blowing the call in the first place.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Amen to that!

Looking at the replay in your highlight video it does appear to me that there was enough contact to push Rose back (even though he was already moving in that direction) and alter his shot. You mention Letter-of-the-law and it's hard to fault an official for making the legally correct call, even though there are times when a no-call seems to be more appropriate. It's exactly that subjectivity that leads to "mistakes" and bad, or in some cases, biased calls. It was Savatore's opinion that it was a foul but it "shouldn't" have been a foul that led to him second guessing himself and blowing the call in the first place.

Yep. That subjectivity is what gives NBA officials a bad rap... read the book by Tim Donaghy if you haven't and you'll see exactly how. It was a foul by the rule book (even though it shouldn't be). But the problem is that is the way officials make calls throughout the game. So when I say I wouldn't have blown the whistle in that circumstance, it is merely because there were other fouls over the course of that game, and series, similar to that one where Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford had similar shots to Rose where they did receive some contact but an official decided that it didn't warrant a call.

 

[TopekaRoy]

I totally see your side, Rami. You feel he shouldn't have blown the whistle in the first place. I feel he should have stuck with his original call. Unfortunately, neither of those things happened.

There are plenty of other (bigger) reasons why the Bulls lost this game so I'm not too upset about it. The score was tied well into the 4th quarter and the Bulls should have been able to close out with a win. They usually finish strong.

The Good news is that it is now a 3 game series with 2 of the games in Chicago and the Bulls should be able to win. Unfortunately, it's a lot harder to win 2 out of 3 then it would have been to go home up 3-1 with 3 chances to close out the series. They let an opportunity get away from them and they will have to work harder for it now.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I'm trying to find the rule but when an inadvertent whistle occurs, shouldn't that be sideline out-of-bounds for the team that has possession? When the official blew the play dead, Rose still had the ball in his hands... so doesn't that mean it shouldn't have been a jump-ball (because the ball was not loose)?

Anybody know?

 

[TopekaRoy]

The score just made a good point. That wasn't really an "inadvertent" whistle. That occurs when a ref forgets he has the whistle in his mouth and exhales or otherwise accidentally blows the whistle at a random time during play. Salvatore blew the whistle on purpose, then thought he made a mistake.

... not that it really matters

 

[TopekaRoy]

I'm trying to find the rule but when an inadvertent whistle occurs, shouldn't that be sideline out-of-bounds for the team that has possession? When the official blew the play dead, Rose still had the ball in his hands... so doesn't that mean it shouldn't have been a jump-ball (because the ball was not loose)?

Anybody know?

I called Les Grobstein at about 3:30 this morning and asked him about that on the air. He said that the rule is that when there is an inadvertent whistle (I'm getting tired of typing those two words!) the ball is put back in play with a jump ball.

I don't know why ...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

That's crazy if true. I'm pretty sure I've seen sideline out-of-bounds after inadvertent whistles (I'm sick of typing those words, too). That's why I ask.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Section III-Jump Balls in Center Circle

a. The ball shall be put into play in the center circle by a jump ball between two opponents:

(1) At the start of the game

(2) At the start of each overtime period

(3) For a double free throw violation

(4) For a double foul during a loose ball situation

(5) When the ball becomes dead when neither team is in control and no field goal or infraction is involved

(6) When the ball comes to rest on the basket flange or becomes lodged between the basket ring and the backboard

(7) When a double foul occurs as a result of a difference in opinion between officials

(8) When an inadvertent whistle occurs during a loose ball

(9) When a fighting foul occurs during a loose ball situation

b. In all cases above, the jump ball shall be between any two opponents in the game at that time. If injury, ejection or disqualification makes it necessary for any player to be replaced, his substitute may not participate in the jump ball.