Is College Worth it?

[Kerfuffle]

Not true, as here is a whole accreditation system for transfer of courses. It has also never been as seamless as it has been for the past decade.



The only types of classes that usually will not have a credit transfer are remedial classes....and that depends strictly on the program.



Interestingly enough Community Colleges are starting to work with their district High Schools to reduce the amount of remedial classes.





Edit - I would also like to point out that with many, and I mean many, of the 4 year colleges expanding beyond their campuses, many have strong partnerships with Community Colleges. Primarily for their space and occasionally their faculty. The 4 year schools can still charge tuition and hold their classes in the community college classrooms. Renting the classrooms at a community college is far cheaper than business space or constructing new buildings.

I have 3 friends with 18/19 year olds and all 3 told me they are experiencing this. So I believe them. Many have thought about doing the community school for 2 years then transferring to the real university to complete your major in your final 2 years. Makes sense as a parent and a great way to keep the costs down. But you have to see it from the big university side as well. They want students at the big campus their freshman and sophomore years so allowing the traditional college route to go from 4 year big campus --> 2 years community and 2 years big campus would hurt their business. My 3 friends kids are not taking remedial classes but they are trying to get in to the more prestigious schools and they are meeting resistance (i.e. we'll accept that but those other credits we won't). So it puts my friends in a tough spot cause the route they were taking to save money isn't really helping them. I don't have college age kids but I'm concerned hearing this.

 

[winos5]

I'm a huge fan of community colleges. My transcripts for McHenry County College, South Plains Community College, Maricopa Community College, and even some of my my AF Military BMT and Tech school training credits transferred effortlessly towards my AS (South Plains College), BS, and MS (Both Univ of Nebraska). I think you get smaller class sizes, more attentive professors, and more individualized instruction. It's definately the way go IMO.



I'd also say my that during the 1st few years that I had no clue of what I actually wanted to do so taking all those general credits (Sociology, US History, Speech, Eng 101/102, Psychology, Biology 101/102, US Government, hell even Drawing and Composition 101/102) that didn't specifically apply to my major was actually helpful towards getting my degrees and helped me figure out what I didn't want to do.

 

[Tater]

When graduate school is over and I receive my MFA, I will be taking on a second mortgage between the wife and I.

She's going back to get certified GIS mapping, and I'm trying to teach on the collegiate level.

Poop 101?

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I have 3 friends with 18/19 year olds and all 3 told me they are experiencing this. So I believe them. Many have thought about doing the community school for 2 years then transferring to the real university to complete your major in your final 2 years. Makes sense as a parent and a great way to keep the costs down. But you have to see it from the big university side as well. They want students at the big campus their freshman and sophomore years so allowing the traditional college route to go from 4 year big campus --> 2 years community and 2 years big campus would hurt their business. My 3 friends kids are not taking remedial classes but they are trying to get in to the more prestigious schools and they are meeting resistance (i.e. we'll accept that but those other credits we won't). So it puts my friends in a tough spot cause the route they were taking to save money isn't really helping them. I don't have college age kids but I'm concerned hearing this.

Then:

(1) They were at or are attending a poorly accredited college...which also reflects somewhat on the education from the standpoint of a lack of standardization of what is expected to be taught. Poor accreditation is few an far between at the Big U's, and only small fry CC's are poorly accredited at this point.

(2) Their program is highly tailored and considered specialized. Does not mean the credits do not transfer, just that they may not fully apply to the specialization program at the big U. Partnership needed.

(3) Those kids need to grow balls and negotiate with the advisers and Deans like I did for my first degree in the early 90's. All most all Big U's allow for an interview with the dept. to prove they know what is expected. And yes sometimes a competency exam is needed.





But I know for fact that Big U's have far more partnerships with CC's, and CC's are not hurting their business as much as perception. I know because I am in that industry and the CC I work for has direct partnership's with vast majority of the major colleges in the Midwest, and has fully transferable, non-remedial\specialized, courses to any accredited Big U. And has very good transferability to many specialized programs like Nursing, Dental, and Public Safety.





We specifically have direct partnerships where the Big U rents space from us to conduct their classes, be is Bach or Mas degree. The Big U drives the tuition for those classes. We just provide the space at a discount...and it is the beginnings of the whole 4 year degree being conducted completely on our campus with 2 year gen ed. at our tuition and the major courses at the Big U tuition. This of course is only for select programs, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 programs at this point. This is also happening nationwide.







At most major big U's, the tuition is far from what makes them money. Business partnerships, grants, sports, research, foundations, alumni, Tax dollars if state funded, etc. is usually 80%+ of the money pulled into the university. At CC's tuition is usually 60%+ of the money.

 

[BigPete]

Not true, as here is a whole accreditation system for transfer of courses. It has also never been as seamless as it has been for the past decade.

http://www.itransfer.org/



Exactly.

 

[BigPete]

One of the biggest lessons I learned about the college experience is that no counsellor really knows what they are doing because in most cases they are a borrowed resource from the teaching ranks. They are not specialized in any way. Most times, depending on the school, you will walk into a counseling office (or even call for an appointment) and get whomever is 'on call' that day. So I may have specific business degree related programs but I am provided with a life sciences instructor. They are forced to look at the same resource provided to the student (a degree program requirements listing) and 'guide' them to a decision about which classes to take. Unless you are lucky enough to do some solid preplanning, work with the same one or two counsellors over a two or four year program, and check progress at EVERY semester end, then you will undoubtedly waste time and money. (A great bit of advice is to try and get time with the department chair or degree program head and use them as a sounding board)



So if you are the parent of a prospective student, don't simply cut them loose and see if they figure it out. Help them in their junior and senior years of high school to identify schools and programs. Then constantly check up on their progress the first two years. Most likely you will save them lots of headaches, heartaches, and financial woes.



No 18 year old is going to figure it out on their own. TJD being a good example, four years later has chosen a totally different path. Were the 18-22 years wasted? I guess it is all a matter of perspective and personal opinion.



I know that even after a 2 year experience with COD, four years of military, and another 3+ years of another community college and now the University of Illinois...all over the course of 15 years...I still learn at every semester that I could have streamlined things and avoided time and money wasters had I been given more guidance from my parents, siblings, and the dozens of counsellors I encountered going back to high school.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

Poop 101?

Yes.

I also teach Advanced Shitting Techniques 401, and Bowl Control 201 and 202.

 

[TSD]

I have 3 friends with 18/19 year olds and all 3 told me they are experiencing this. So I believe them. Many have thought about doing the community school for 2 years then transferring to the real university to complete your major in your final 2 years. Makes sense as a parent and a great way to keep the costs down. But you have to see it from the big university side as well. They want students at the big campus their freshman and sophomore years so allowing the traditional college route to go from 4 year big campus --> 2 years community and 2 years big campus would hurt their business. My 3 friends kids are not taking remedial classes but they are trying to get in to the more prestigious schools and they are meeting resistance (i.e. we'll accept that but those other credits we won't). So it puts my friends in a tough spot cause the route they were taking to save money isn't really helping them. I don't have college age kids but I'm concerned hearing this.

Maybe its an issue with "prestigious" schools, as far as state schools damn near any 101 and above class at JJC transfers to illinois state as they have a partnership.



Although with those Name schools, I can kind of see where they are coming from. Just as an example, maybe they dont want people getting a harvard degree when the student actually got half their education at Jim Bobs community Kollege.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

http://www.itransfer.org/



Exactly.

Yup. u.select and IAI have been sizable parts of my work life for the past two years.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Maybe its an issue with "prestigious" schools, as far as state schools damn near any 101 and above class at JJC transfers to illinois state as they have a partnership.



Although with those Name schools, I can kind of see where they are coming from. Just as an example, maybe they dont want people getting a harvard degree when the student actually got half their education at Jim Bobs community Kollege.

Please I work and Jim Joe Bob Kevin Kummunity Kolledge

 

[Ymono37]

Yup. u.select and IAI have been sizable parts of my work life for the past two years.

pretty sure when I got my Associates, I made sure I was following the IAI stuff to insure ease of transferability at least within state. College Of DuPage actually did a pretty good job and laying out the things you'd need to do so.

 

[BigPete]

They do so now. They did not when I started at COD in 1996, nor when I quit in 1999. I did not find this out until 2007 when I started at Southwestern Illinois College and had to retake several things.



Fortunately, UIS (U of Illinois at Springfield) took most of everything from SWIC and several things from COD. And yet, I still am getting suckered into taking a behavioral science class at UIS to fulfill gen ed credits. That to me, is nothing but a chance for UIS to make more money on me. I could take that at a CC at a lower cost, but I really don't want to interface with SWIC any longer and I don't want to pony up the cash and time to enroll in another school. So I am going to pay UIS just so I can wrap up my BBA and get the piece of paper.

 

[Pez68]

I gave up on college after wasting a year and a half taking "pre-requisite" courses and seeing how much it all was going to cost me for these "filler" classes. In reality, those courses were just money makers for the university. It was 75% rehashing of what I learned in high school and had NOTHING to do with the career I wanted to pursue. College is a pretty big scam, if you ask me. It's really just practice for being an adult, being organized, learning to multitask, balance workload, etc. Unless you're going into a specialized field(medicine, law, etc.) you will learn much, much, much more by getting into the entry level of the field of your choosing. I despise college, but realize that it is pretty much a necessity if you want to make any real money. Kind of like certifications in the IT industry.

 

[TSD]

I gave up on college after wasting a year and a half taking "pre-requisite" courses and seeing how much it all was going to cost me for these "filler" classes. In reality, those courses were just money makers for the university. It was 75% rehashing of what I learned in high school and had NOTHING to do with the career I wanted to pursue. College is a pretty big scam, if you ask me. It's really just practice for being an adult, being organized, learning to multitask, balance workload, etc. Unless you're going into a specialized field(medicine, law, etc.) you will learn much, much, much more by getting into the entry level of the field of your choosing. I despise college, but realize that it is pretty much a necessity if you want to make any real money. Kind of like certifications in the IT industry.

Therein is the problem, you arent getting into the entry level field of your "choosing" without a diploma. I do know people that managed to score positions in fields that generally require degrees without one, but they are very few and far between.



The only certification Ive been working on is my company has a partnership with MIT, and the amount of classes I have to take is like repeating 2 years of college, but I do it in my off time and its free (my company offers practically limitless free education). Im about 75% done with it(all taught by instructors on loan from MIT), when I am complete, I will get a certification from MIT for software engineering, at that point i can throw my diploma away, once I get that brick of employment gold.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

Individuals need to realize what makes them economically viable.

The diploma is a start, but it doesn't end there.

Higher education is worth it in many regards if you take the courses that make you grow as an individual and improve your value to a potential employer. I just don't want to lump success in a measurement of dollars alone.



I entered undergrad with a journalism/communications major-- switched to web/graphic design-- and exited with an electronic media degree because I saw what was happening to the respective industries. The electronic media degree marketed my skills the best, and probably landed me some decent work early on.



My field is slowly becoming one that anyone with a small budget can do. YouTube has killed the media industry for professionals because low end HD equipment and editing software has tumbled in price. So, shitty video streams that are clunky have become the norm, and professional video has taken a back seat to this. Apple stuck another dagger in our sides by releasing Final Cut X at bargain basement prices. Instead of claiming defeat, I kept myself on a professional standard and became certified-- and realized I needed some specific training in production and went after my MS, and soon the MFA. The MFA is important because I can now go out and train/teach which opens up many more doors of opportunity.



So, is college worth it? Yes. However, you have to be in control of what classes you take. I was very careful not to get caught up in a bad class that wasted my tuition. I was fortunate enough that DePaul was flexible-- but they better be flexible @ 2700 per class.

 

[MassHavoc]

College is not just about the education requirements it fulfills, it opens you open to so many opportunities and people with like interests that you will network with for the rest of your life. Whether it's joining the rowing club for the free pizza and the hot chick, or a professional organization through your degree field, it allows you to be a more complete and rounded person and add things to your resume that you wouldn't otherwise have been able to. And those are the real things that set you apart from every other person applying for the job. Those are the things that help you not have to start at the very bottom of an organization when you get out of school, much like a person does if they don't have any furthered education. People always say it's not what you know it's who you know and there really is no better place than school to immerse yourself in networking opportunities for the future from all walks of life and experience. You never know where your life will turn and you may lean on a friend from school who was on a completely different path than you. The diversity of people and experiences rounds a person much better than going straight from HS to an ground floor opportunity at a company. Sure they may eventually work their way up one day, but they may never be able to change career paths and do something they love. College was great for me in that I was getting an education and much like Paul, I was able to truly take the time to figure out where the industries were going to be and how I wanted to be a part of that.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

College is not just about the education requirements it fulfills, it opens you open to so many opportunities and people with like interests that you will network with for the rest of your life. Whether it's joining the rowing club for the free pizza and the hot chick, or a professional organization through your degree field, it allows you to be a more complete and rounded person and add things to your resume that you wouldn't otherwise have been able to. And those are the real things that set you apart from every other person applying for the job. Those are the things that help you not have to start at the very bottom of an organization when you get out of school, much like a person does if they don't have any furthered education. People always say it's not what you know it's who you know and there really is no better place than school to immerse yourself in networking opportunities for the future from all walks of life and experience. You never know where your life will turn and you may lean on a friend from school who was on a completely different path than you. The diversity of people and experiences rounds a person much better than going straight from HS to an ground floor opportunity at a company. Sure they may eventually work their way up one day, but they may never be able to change career paths and do something they love. College was great for me in that I was getting an education and much like Paul, I was able to truly take the time to figure out where the industries were going to be and how I wanted to be a part of that.

Absolutely. Those connections are key for perhaps getting a better or improved foot through the door, when you feel you need to jump to a new job\industry, or just need to bounce questions off of.



And those connections can get solidified quicker at school than in the workplace since there is less pressure to perform other than your own grades. While professional groups can help in the networking department it is amazing how quickly people from the same school for "conference" connect immediately.

 

[TSD]

Absolutely. Those connections are key for perhaps getting a better or improved foot through the door, when you feel you need to jump to a new job\industry, or just need to bounce questions off of.



And those connections can get solidified quicker at school than in the workplace since there is less pressure to perform other than your own grades. While professional groups can help in the networking department it is amazing how quickly people from the same school for "conference" connect immediately.

Im sure where I went to school contributed to why I have my current job. The guy giving me my final interview went to illinois state as well.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Im sure where I went to school contributed to why I have my current job. The guy giving me my final interview went to illinois state as well.

I won't lie, I have been on plenty of interview teams at various companies where "commonality" (college, previous employment, Marine), held weight over another candidate.

 

[BigPete]

My real 'college experience' was my four years of active duty in the Army. I can agree with what you are saying Mass, but networks generated in college are not a mutually exclusive outcome from those generated in doing something other than just working as say a garbage man or retail clerk from 18-22.



I got my first civilian job after the military because I had a security clearance, had experience with the agency our contract was for, and specifically had experience with the systems and programs that the contract was asking my company to work with.



The people I had worked for or with only came up in casual conversation over the next 9 years.



So in my case, my military service served the same as a college degree would for civilians. The reason I am going back now is to help with a job sector transfor if I choose to leave the defense contractor environment (or have to for reasons out of my control). I am not an engineer or specialized technician and don't want to be one. So simply having about 10 years of highly stylized IT services management experience may not translate on a resume. Having a BBA or any undergrad degree, gives me just a bit of help and keeps me away from the 'bottom of the pile'. Which I admit is necessary but still think is bullshit.